Popular Post +Sherapy Posted December 3, 2023 Popular Post #1 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) "In your perspective, is the concept of God better explained by divine revelation or as something created by humans?" I invite you to share your thoughts and engage in a meaningful discussion. Feel free to expand on any perspective, counter opposing views, refute/refine existing ideas, or add any other insights you find relevant. My objective is to delve deeper into the topic and explore the various viewpoints surrounding the concept of God. Nota bene: this argument does not dismiss/diminish the significance or personal value of divine interpretations for believers. Instead, it questions the reliability and strength of divine revelation as an argument for the existence of the Christian God in a broader, objective context. For me: The concept of the Christian God has had a profound impact on human history, influencing individuals, communities, and societies for centuries. Based on my accrued understanding due to the many posters who are more versed than I, it seems as Christianity spread across different regions and encountered diverse cultures, the assimilation of local practices, beliefs, and deities influenced the perception/understanding of the Christian God. (CG) This hybridization is evident in the adoption of pagan festivals, rituals, and symbolism seen in Christian practices and symbolism. The CG, like other gods, has been shaped by cultural influences, historical contexts, and subjective experiences. While the Christian faith holds profound significance for believers, an exploration of its origins acknowledges the human construction of the concept. For example, the beliefs and practices of ancient societies like Mesopotamia played a role in shaping attributes associated with the Christian God, such as justice and sovereignty. Greek philosophy/thought also had an impact, contributing ideas like the "Logos" or divine reason. The Roman Empire influenced the understanding of God as a supreme ruler, aligning with the hierarchical structure of the time. As Christianity spread to different regions, local cultural beliefs and practices were often incorporated, blending with Christian traditions. In more recent history, the European Renaissance and Enlightenment periods brought emphasis on individual experience and reason, which influenced interpretations of God. Overall, cultural diversity and historical influences have shaped how people understand and perceive the Christian God throughout different time periods and areas. On the flip side: Divine revelation typically relies on personal interpretations and subjective interpretations, which can vary greatly among folks. This subjectivity makes it challenging to establish a universally accepted basis for belief in the Christian God beyond faith. Additionally, divine revelation often contradicts itself across different religious traditions. Different people/groups/claim to have received divine revelations that are incompatible with one another. This raises questions about the reliability and accuracy of these revelations, making it difficult to determine which, if any, are genuine. Finally, the elephant in the room, divine revelation often relies on some form of circular reasoning. Believers interpret their experiences as divine revelations to validate their preexisting beliefs in the Christian God as divine revelation. However, from a skeptical standpoint, this lacks external validation or objective criteria to distinguish genuine revelation from personal interpretation or imagination. Painting the Christian God into the corner of “beyond human reasoning,” relying solely on divine revelation, discouraging questioning or seeking alternative explanations, because the emphasis is placed on accepting revelations as unquestionable truths. For me, the human construction looms large. Edited December 3, 2023 by Sherapy 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 3, 2023 #2 Share Posted December 3, 2023 God is what we desire to be ruled by. A man-made construct and the extension of ego-desires. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted December 3, 2023 #3 Share Posted December 3, 2023 It takes a long time to untangle tight knots. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #4 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Guyver said: It takes a long time to untangle tight knots. Alexander's solution can make short shrift of any knot. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted December 3, 2023 #5 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, Hammerclaw said: Alexander's solution can make short shrift of any knot. What is his solution, burn it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #6 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) To have Faith, in the religious sense, is to grant validity to that which is uncertain. Of course, younger and simpler minds are susceptible to indoctrination. For a person gifted with a fully cognizant thinking mind, it's a matter of choice. Edited December 3, 2023 by Hammerclaw 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted December 3, 2023 #7 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Guyver said: What is his solution, burn it? He cut the Gordian knot in half rather than try to untie it. Prophesy was that he who could untie it would rule. Edited December 3, 2023 by Tatetopa added who 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #8 Share Posted December 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Guyver said: What is his solution, burn it? His solution to untying the Gordian Knot was draw his sword and slice through the BS. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted December 3, 2023 #9 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Great topic Sheri! I'll start with this: If divine revelation is something that really occurs, in other words, is as real as the ability a person has to imagine things, then it's on us, seemingly without help, to determine which is which. If a genuine divine revelation is actually an imagination, then, if not identified for what it really is, it will lead to a certain set of problems. If an imagination is actually a genuine divine revelation, then, if you tell people about it here at UM.......... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted December 3, 2023 #10 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Alexander cheated. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #11 Share Posted December 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Will Due said: Great topic Sheri! I'll start with this: If divine revelation is something that really occurs, in other words, is as real as the ability a person has to imagine things, then it's on us, seemingly without help, to determine which is which. If a genuine divine revelation is actually an imagination, then, if not identified for what it really is, it will lead to a certain set of problems. If an imagination is actually a genuine divine revelation, then, if you tell people about it here at UM.......... There is also the possibility of being taken in by another person's bogus divine revelation and then making a fool out of oneself blathering about it, constantly, in public. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #12 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Guyver said: Alexander cheated. He didn't believe in a no-win scenario and was later played by William Shatner in a TV movie. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 3, 2023 Author #13 Share Posted December 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Will Due said: Great topic Sheri! I'll start with this: If divine revelation is something that really occurs, in other words, is as real as the ability a person has to imagine things, then it's on us, seemingly without help, to determine which is which. If a genuine divine revelation is actually an imagination, then, if not identified for what it really is, it will lead to a certain set of problems. If an imagination is actually a genuine divine revelation, then, if you tell people about it here at UM.......... Thanks, Will. These are really interesting points. To explore this deeper, my question to you is how does one go about distinguishing divine revelation (DR) from imagination? Can you expand on the problems of DR is actually our imagination? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 3, 2023 Author #14 Share Posted December 3, 2023 26 minutes ago, Guyver said: It takes a long time to untangle tight knots. It is a lot of work. 👊🏼 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #15 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Sherapy said: Thanks, Will. These are really interesting points. To explore this deeper, my question to you is how does one go about distinguishing divine revelation (DR) from imagination? Can you expand on the problems of DR is actually our imagination? Yes, also how does one go about verifying someone else's divine revelation as being genuine? Imagination? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted December 3, 2023 #16 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I dunno, WE/people have lived with our gods for most of our existence. . to me, the “Christian god” is as a newborn babe in a manger. My only Revelation is what is see with my eyes, hear with my ears, & feel in my Heart. (& in rare instances , reason or learn with my brain). I see One Creation.. (insert favorite deity or force here). .the space in my atoms Being exactly the same as the space outside of my atoms. I know Energy is sort of a dirty word? But to me everything appears to be interacting fields of energy. Why? Who knows? Well, best I could do..that’s my .999 cents worth. Ya get what ya pay for! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted December 3, 2023 #17 Share Posted December 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, Guyver said: Alexander cheated. Tell him that. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted December 3, 2023 #18 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) Was it divine revelation when man learned to make fire? Was it nature, or just plain luck? Edited December 3, 2023 by Guyver 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 3, 2023 #19 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Page one and the thread already has side quest. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 3, 2023 Author #20 Share Posted December 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Yes, also how does one go about verifying someone else's divine revelation as being genuine? Imagination? Exactly, good point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted December 3, 2023 Author #21 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: Page one and the thread already has side quest. Side quest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 3, 2023 #22 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, Sherapy said: Side quest? Thread derailments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted December 3, 2023 #23 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Just now, Sherapy said: Side quest? The Quest for Fire. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted December 3, 2023 #24 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Thanks, Will. These are really interesting points. To explore this deeper, my question to you is how does one go about distinguishing divine revelation (DR) from imagination? Can you expand on the problems of DR is actually our imagination? Well this is why I think this is such a great topic Sheri, because in my opinion, based on my experience with having made it my life's priority to learn to distinguish between the two better and better every day, at this point, I'm not really sure where it all is with me. So I'm really interested in reading what others have to say about their own experiences. I will say at least this though, I'm convinced that gaining a way to be able to distinguish between divine revelation and imagination is one of the main purposes of our temporary human existence. Accuracy being the goal. I am presuming that your reference to divine revelation is personal divine revelation and not someone else's personal revelations. Am I mistaken? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 3, 2023 #25 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Why do only religious people have miracles, divine intervention, and religious experiences? My take is that it's just a side effect of cultivating their beliefs. Self induced madness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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