God Unpacked: Divine Revelation or Something Created by Humans

[lightly]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:25 PM, Sherapy said:

"In your perspective, is the concept of God better explained by divine revelation or as something created by humans?"

I invite you to share your thoughts

I think concepts of god are better explained as something created by humans… while   “god”  is better Revealed in/by Creation. ?     Divinity is something we create/imagine and bestow upon Existence & Being … Creator & Creation.?      There.  ..there’s my remaining .0001 cents worth     Great thread Sherapy…interesting stuff ahead   I’ll hush and listen to the grownups now. 🥰

Edited December 5, 2023 by lightly

[jmccr8]

36 minutes ago, lightly said:

  Piney thinks modern man is dimmer witted than ‘primitive’ man…due to lack of need in a less Uncertain world..  makes sense to me.   I was thinking as soon as man developed Thinking and Imagination …gods & religions were born.?     Later , (developing) Reason & Understanding/(knowledge) accompanied the birth of sciences. ?   Both came about for the same reasons,  as attempts to interpret and understand Reality. ?      Even philosophy began as an attempt to understand and explain the nature of Nature/Reality.    (I think it devolved into endless subjective ideas about the mind of man?)

Hi Lightly

I grew up in an agricultural environment and people had to know a lot as the built their homes, barns, repaired their equipment as well as planting crops and taking care of livestock and now a lot of people have a hard time reading the instructions on a box of Kraft dinner. People are more specialized now and can't do a lot of stuff themselves nor will they challenge themselves to learn

Edited December 5, 2023 by jmccr8

[lightly]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Lightly

I grew up in an agricultural environment and people had to know a lot as the built their homes, barns, repaired their equipment as well as planting crops and taking care of livestock and now a lot of people have a hard time reading the instructions on a box of Kraft dinner. People are more specialized now and can't do a lot of stuff themselves nor will they challenge themselves to learn

Hi j,  ya, I remember when most people , in rural areas, had a skill ..a livelihood..in which they LOCALLY produced something needed  or provided some needed service.   I remember the Barber Shop… the Shoe store , where Otto also repaired shoes,  the Butcher ,who owned the grocery store,  my mom had a small Beauty Shop. .    The locals made Ice from the lake in the winter & packed it in sawdust in a giant Ice House on the Shore. Then in sawdust in the train cars they would send it off to the cities in.    On Coal Fired Steam Trains!*         

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

If GOD is Singular in Nature, and yet we feel that we live in a fractured, desolate world, then its love, and only love that can heal this life.

Therefore, GOD must be Love.

One of the Hindu pathways to Realising Self is through a devotional love, of GOD, and therefore a love of humanity and life in general.

Therefore, GOD must be Love.

Unpacking god, to me CH, natural selection is a much better fit for love than your god construct. IMHO

 

A add to: Natural  selection is the idea that certain traits and behaviors become more common in a population because they help with survival and reproduction. When it comes to positive emotions and behaviors like love, joy, curiosity, and cooperation, they can be seen as advantageous for our survival and towards the success of communities.

For example, love and social bonding brings people together and increases our chances of working well as a group. Joy and curiosity can motivate us to explore, learn new things, and adapt to different situations. These positive emotions and behaviors have likely developed over time because they have helped our ancestors to survive, reproduce, and thrive.

It's worth noting that while natural selection can help explain why these positive aspects of human experience exist, not to dismiss the complexity of emotions and behaviors as complex and influenced by other factors like genetics, environment, and culture. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Sherapy

[Guyver]

18 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

Omens are so culturally connected that in order to determine whether an omen is good or bad, you'd have to know what culture the person comes from. And even then it is always about perceived good or evil which is also highly culturally dependent. What is your supposed bad omen and where did your belief and practice that tells it is a bad omen come from? 

 

And yes Genesis makes no sense, but it exists because of local floods, mythology and imbuing believers with a morality tale that if they choose to disregard that particular sects rules, god will kill them all and leave the good rule followers alive to repopulate in an incestuous lineage. Some churches if you sized up the parishoners, don't seem all that far off of being the result of horrible inbreeding.

First, thank you for responding.  When I was posting, inside my own mind, I’m thinking….I hope DarkMoonLady will respond to this.  Having said that, I haven’t even read your post yet.

[Guyver]

19 hours ago, darkmoonlady said:

Omens are so culturally connected that in order to determine whether an omen is good or bad, you'd have to know what culture the person comes from. And even then it is always about perceived good or evil which is also highly culturally dependent. What is your supposed bad omen and where did your belief and practice that tells it is a bad omen come from? 

 

And yes Genesis makes no sense, but it exists because of local floods, mythology and imbuing believers with a morality tale that if they choose to disregard that particular sects rules, god will kill them all and leave the good rule followers alive to repopulate in an incestuous lineage. Some churches if you sized up the parishoners, don't seem all that far off of being the result of horrible inbreeding.

Well said.  To be honest, I don’t fully believe omens, but I don’t disbelieve them either.  I have been using my lava lamp as an exploratory omen type device first as a joke.  Now, I’m actually starting to believe it.  Kinda like the magic 8 ball.  I mean, everyone knows that thing is totally fake….but have you ever used one?  I was surprised how good that thing was.

[Guyver]

18 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Guyver

I don't know about omens but do know that subconsciously some things make you more aware of your surroundings like the spidy sense starts tingling.

Oh hell yes.  You are right.  Some people can feel when others are looking at them.  

[Guyver]

11 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Actually we can trace whiskey to the Beaker People settlement of Skara Brae in the Orkneys.  Their descendants still carry the genes for digesting the amyl alcohols found in whiskey today.  Other people should beware of whiskey.  I believe in Gaelic that Whiskey translates as the water of life.

Agree.  You are a wise master.

[Guyver]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

GOD is above any concept, and any perspective.

How would one describe Infinite Energetic Potential?

What we see and know about this Universe, (in my opinion) all sprang forth from THAT, but, THAT, in and of it SELF, is beyond any concept.

 

God would have to be well beyond human comprehension, IMO.  The energy of self that a God would have who could make all of the universes would be overwhelming to say the least.  As people we are pretty smart.  But the energy and skill it would take to make universes is beyond our understanding.  IMO.

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Unpacking god, to me CH, natural selection is a much better fit for love than your god construct. IMHO

 

A add to: Natural  selection is the idea that certain traits and behaviors become more common in a population because they help with survival and reproduction. When it comes to positive emotions and behaviors like love, joy, curiosity, and cooperation, they can be seen as advantageous for our survival and towards the success of communities.

For example, love and social bonding brings people together and increases our chances of working well as a group. Joy and curiosity can motivate us to explore, learn new things, and adapt to different situations. These positive emotions and behaviors have likely developed over time because they have helped our ancestors to survive, reproduce, and thrive.

It's worth noting that while natural selection can help explain why these positive aspects of human experience exist, not to dismiss the complexity of emotions and behaviors as complex and influenced by other factors like genetics, environment, and culture. 

 

 

I hope you are writing a book.  You sound like a scientist.

[+Sherapy]

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I hope you are writing a book.  You sound like a scientist.

Thank you for the kind words, my friend. 🙏🏼

[darkmoonlady]

28 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Well said.  To be honest, I don’t fully believe omens, but I don’t disbelieve them either.  I have been using my lava lamp as an exploratory omen type device first as a joke.  Now, I’m actually starting to believe it.  Kinda like the magic 8 ball.  I mean, everyone knows that thing is totally fake….but have you ever used one?  I was surprised how good that thing was.

I used to have 4 or 5 lava lamps, none of them ever worked like a Magic 8 ball. Magic 8 balls to me are less of a window into the supernatural than say a ouija board. A magic 8 ball has a limited range of answers based on what is printed on the die in the ball. At least a ouija taps into the people participatings imagination and they can write whatever comes out. 

Now I miss my lava lamps and glitter lamp. My first apartment was tricked out with every imaginable hippie decor including blacklight and glow stars. 

I think oracles much more interesting because they interpreted omens, made predictions, pronouncements and had and interpreted visions. Love to know what the Oracle at Delphi knew. 

[Guyver]

1 minute ago, darkmoonlady said:

I used to have 4 or 5 lava lamps, none of them ever worked like a Magic 8 ball. Magic 8 balls to me are less of a window into the supernatural than say a ouija board. A magic 8 ball has a limited range of answers based on what is printed on the die in the ball. At least a ouija taps into the people participatings imagination and they can write whatever comes out. 

Now I miss my lava lamps and glitter lamp. My first apartment was tricked out with every imaginable hippie decor including blacklight and glow stars. 

I think oracles much more interesting because they interpreted omens, made predictions, pronouncements and had and interpreted visions. Love to know what the Oracle at Delphi knew. 

Everyone may laugh, but Ouija boards scare me.  Maybe it’s because I was once indoctrinated to believe that it was the devil, or maybe it was the Exorcist?   But, most probably, it was because the one and only time I have ever used one, it actually worked.  It was just me and the only true blood brother I ever had, yes…we did the ritual…anyway, we both took it up to his room, sat on the floor, and did it.  The planchette did move by itself.  We were not pushing it.  It did communicate with us, and whatever we were talking to said it was Billy the Kid.

[Guyver]

There was a poster here for a long time named Ironghost.  I hope his works are still available.  Long ago, he did experiments with the ouija board and recorded his results on this forum.  It is one of the most fascinating things I have ever read.  Is it true?  I did everything I could to get the truth out of him including knowing him as a cyber friend, and I believe he was telling the truth.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Oh hell yes.  You are right.  Some people can feel when others are looking at them.  

Hi Guyver

Not sure why but one morning I woke up with the feeling that I was going to fall and that day i was supposed to finish sheeting a steep roof on a garage with a loft suite at a cabin. The garage had 10' walls and I was installing hidden fastener metal roofing and on that side it was a good 30' from ground level to the beach down the cliff so I phoned Jerry and told him that that day I did not feel comfortable going up on the roof. Jerry knew me and knew that I had no problems working heights and said fine as I said I would come the next day and that I would go work on another job I had going for that day. Oddly enough Jerry's step-daughter came to see me at the other job and we were talking while I was working, I was standing on the staircase to the basement and the stairs just dropped out from under me and I fell backwards over the staircase that had fallen on it's side. Fortunately all I got were a few scrapes and cuts but was fine otherwise so it seemed to me that one way or the other I was going to have a fall that day and glad it wasn't off the roof.

 

[Guyver]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Guyver

Not sure why but one morning I woke up with the feeling that I was going to fall and that day i was supposed to finish sheeting a steep roof on a garage with a loft suite at a cabin. The garage had 10' walls and I was installing hidden fastener metal roofing and on that side it was a good 30' from ground level to the beach down the cliff so I phoned Jerry and told him that that day I did not feel comfortable going up on the roof. Jerry knew me and knew that I had no problems working heights and said fine as I said I would come the next day and that I would go work on another job I had going for that day. Oddly enough Jerry's step-daughter came to see me at the other job and we were talking while I was working, I was standing on the staircase to the basement and the stairs just dropped out from under me and I fell backwards over the staircase that had fallen on it's side. Fortunately all I got were a few scrapes and cuts but was fine otherwise so it seemed to me that one way or the other I was going to have a fall that day and glad it wasn't off the roof.

 

Holy crap!!!!

[Guyver]

Well, it looks like my bad omen came true.  I didn’t get my retirement checks this month.  Now I have to call and go through eight hours of BS to correct the situation.  Sigh,  depressing. And I once made fun of people waiting for their retirement checks!  See the irony?  I sink in flames.  

[Guyver]

Kharma came back and bit me right on the ass.

[+joc]

18 hours ago, Piney said:

"Give back some of what you you take for thanks".

Not all sacrifices are human or animal and even my people offered the first deer killed in the fall to a bonfire during Gamwing. 

Okay...but thanks...to who...and for what?  Where did the whole idea of being thankful for the bounty that you yourself worked so hard for come in to play?  And how?  I used to think that the idea of 'deities' came into play because of questions humans asked early on, like, Why Thunder?  I'm just not getting where the idea entered the head of humans to sacrifice.  How did that idea spontaneously erupt all over the world?

[+joc]

18 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Historically Mankind’s desire to sacrifice its own as well as animals is not limited to deity worship alone. When a ruler died in Mesopotamia their retainers were killed  and buried alongside them to serve them in the afterlife. This Mesopotamian custom is something seen in the First Dynasty of Egypt as well. One ruler even had a lion buried with him, presumably because he so enjoyed hunted them in life that he wanted to ensure he could continue to do so after his death. 
 

 

I'm just wondering where the idea of 'sacrifice' came from.  Did it have it's origins in some ruler who demanded a 'tax' of some kind from the people for his keeping them safe?  Like, some protection racket?  Do we know how that idea got started that we must appease something by doing something?

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, joc said:

Okay...but thanks...to who...and for what?  Where did the whole idea of being thankful for the bounty that you yourself worked so hard for come in to play?  And how?  I used to think that the idea of 'deities' came into play because of questions humans asked early on, like, Why Thunder?  I'm just not getting where the idea entered the head of humans to sacrifice.  How did that idea spontaneously erupt all over the world?

It erupted when we were all still n Africa.

[Piney]

Just now, joc said:

I'm just wondering where the idea of 'sacrifice' came from.  Did it have it's origins in some ruler who demanded a 'tax' of some kind from the people for his keeping them safe?  Like, some protection racket?  Do we know how that idea got started that we must appease something by doing something?

There is always the guy trying  control everyone else and it was similar to a protection racket and population control.

 

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

It erupted when we were all still n Africa.

How did it erupt?  I mean, how did we get from the point of excitement of the kill, to sharing it with an invisible entity? 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, joc said:

How did it erupt?  I mean, how did we get from the point of excitement of the kill, to sharing it with an invisible entity? 

Among the Aztec Alliance it had to do with climate change. They went from sacrificing crops to people as the land dried out.

Among the Canaanites they sacrificed their first born in the cities but it wasn't conducive for the herders with their high death rate thus he Hebrews were born. 

[XenoFish]

Sounds more like desperation.