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AI & Transhumanism / Muslim Perspective 


ReadTheGreatControversyEGW

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Daniel Haqiqatjou, Muslim, reacts to the philosophies of Yuvak Harari - an advisor to the world economic forum with many world leaders. Yuval brings to the forefront what he calls the next stage of evolution (Transhumanism). Also, AI rendering the large majority of the human family, "useless." [Even Doctors]. 

I'm not Muslim and don't agree with many Muslim views, but much of what Daniel said in this video I find that most Christians or believers in a god would agree with. The video starts out perhaps a bit slow but gets more intense with every quote from Yuval. XD 

Daniel "A non-atheist person would understand that there are certain values than transcend the material world. There are certain values that transcend a simple calculation of utility, a simple calculation of net benefit versus net harm. There are certain, what we would call, 'deontological values' that are transcendent beyond this kind of utilitarian materialistic mindset." 

Yuval describes "a small elite who pushes things in its own interest, even if it doesn't benefit the vast majority of the population." Mhmmmmm 

Yuval "The big political and economic question of the 21st century will be, what do we need humans for or what do we need so many humans for?" This is a question? Who would ask a question like this!?!? XD His best answer, keep them happy with drugs and computer games. Anybody got a problem with this? I do! 

Yuval "We are the gods working above the cloud" 'the digital clouds.' So your future is in our hands!

Yuval states, 'Your body and the data concerning your body doesn't belong to you anymore. The collective, corporations and governments decides what happens to your body.' Oh my! 

"Humans are now hackable animals. The whole idea that humans have a soul or spirit and they have freewill and nobody knows what's happening inside me so whatever I choose during the election or in the supermarket is my freewill. That's over." Listen up folks! "Today we have the technology to hack human beings on a massive scale." Is this "hacking of humans" voluntary? What if they object, do they have a choice? Doesn't sound like it. 

Yuval "A crisis is an opportunity to do "good reforms" which in normal times people would never agree to" I wonder why? XD "In a crisis, you see, we have no choice, so let's do it" ! Sounds like he's a fan of crisis. I wonder if he's in favor of artificial crisis? 

Yuval "Surveillance, people could look back in a hundred years and identify the "bleeep" epidemic as the moment when a new regime of surveillance took over, especially surveillance under the skin, which I think is maybe the most important development of the 21st century, is this ability to hack human beings, to go under the skin to collect biometric data, analyze it and understand people better than they understand themselves" what do you think is the epidemic he's talking about? 

Yuval speaks excitedly of the elite creating a "technological dictatorship" and hacking humans to re-engineer them. "Once you can hack something, you can usually engineer it." Well, they are "animals" aren't they? ...and to be rendered useless ones at that. So you don't have to regard them as being invaluable and unique. 

Any scientist or atheists out there in agreement with all or any part of Yuval's philosophies? If so how/why! It has been said that religion can be dangerous. It seems atheism can be dangerous too because no one who truly believes in God/ the Creator would be excited over something like this. 

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The Cruel Stars trilogy by John Birmingham explores the benefits and the dangers of transhumanism brilliantly. 
Basically, and as spoiler-free as possible, you get Google in your head, can have skills uploaded etc and can body swap. 
IF you have the money. 
The downsides are, as the article says, that connection is hackable and IS hacked in a rather apocalyptic manner. 
There’s a lot made in rhe books of the value of learning for yourself being slower but more reliable (several of the main characters are from poorer backgrounds and therefore didn’t have digital tutors etc, and had to learn for themselves so when the proverbial hits the fan, they’re able to survive it) whereas the tech can make you superhuman (one character has a designer body that has super-speed and other abilities) being able to fire a gun without the tech telling you where to point etc is an advantage when the tech fails. 

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39 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

I'm not Muslim and don't agree with many Muslim views, but much of what Daniel said in this video I find that most Christians or believers in a god would agree with. The video starts out perhaps a bit slow but gets more intense with every quote from Yuval. XD 

I dunno. I caught you quoting the holy Koran the other day, and now you post a video wherein a Muslim apologist urges the West to turn away from technological development. Among the author's prose contributions:

Exposing the Joint Israeli-Indian Plan to Genocide Muslims in Palestine and India

The Secret Zionist Plan to Destroy the Muslim World

Understanding the Obligation in Judaism to Genocide Enemies

https://muslimskeptic.com/author/drjou/

As I said recently, I don't know what game you're playing, but I'll pass on this thread.

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3 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I dunno. I caught you quoting the holy Koran the other day, and now you post a video wherein a Muslim apologist urges the West to turn away from technological development. Among the author's prose contributions:

Exposing the Joint Israeli-Indian Plan to Genocide Muslims in Palestine and India

The Secret Zionist Plan to Destroy the Muslim World

Understanding the Obligation in Judaism to Genocide Enemies

https://muslimskeptic.com/author/drjou/

As I said recently, I don't know what game you're playing, but I'll pass on this thread.

Ohh…. He’s an “alarmist” shall we say.

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51 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

you get Google in your head,

Are you ok with that? Well i guess some people are. I think it's not good because people are behind Google, AI and Transhumanism. That's the problem. Humans may do things you don't want and will not tell you. You'd find out too late. It's not always ethical 

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"We have to become more than human"  Hmm, where have I heard that before?  Oh yeah, a certain serpent:

“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 

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57 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The downsides are, as the article says, that connection is hackable and IS hacked in a rather apocalyptic manner. 
There’s a lot made in rhe books of the value of learning for yourself being slower but more reliable (several of the main characters are from poorer backgrounds and therefore didn’t have digital tutors etc, and had to learn for themselves so when the proverbial hits the fan, they’re able to survive it) whereas the tech can make you superhuman (one character has a designer body that has super-speed and other abilities) being able to fire a gun without the tech telling you where to point etc is an advantage when the tech fails. 

Yes hackable so it is unsure how you could be controlled or manipulated. There are human designers behind it and they do have their own ideologies that now can be communicated to you in ways you might not like. I don't think it is neutral. In the video, Yuval spoke about tyrants and governments wanting to hack human beings in the past and did not have the technology or science to do it. He says soon some corporations and governments will be able to systematically hack all the people. 

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3 minutes ago, and-then said:

"We have to become more than human"  Hmm, where have I heard that before?  Oh yeah, a certain serpent:

“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 

In the video Yuval did say they are gods ... he can say whatever he want say or believe but my problem with their view is that they believe in stepping past freedom of choice and disregarding the will of others. Criminals disregard a person's freedom of choice or will. 

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7 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

In the video Yuval did say they are gods ... he can say whatever he want say or believe but my problem with their view is that they believe in stepping past freedom of choice and disregarding the will of others. Criminals disregard a person's freedom of choice or will. 

I've read a couple of his books.  I used that quote because my sense of him is that he is a symbol of the coming deception of humanity.  He has very good didactic skills and smoothly explains concepts so that they sound reasonable but ultimately, he is saying the same thing the Adversary said in the garden, isn't he?  When I discovered that Harari is a kind of guru to Klaus Schwab and Obama, I understood all I needed to know about his worldview.  He is a poison to human free will.

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1 hour ago, and-then said:

We have to become more than human"  Hmm, where have I heard that before? 

Rob Zombie or Blade Runner.

 

Edited by XenoFish
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24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Rob Zombie or Blade Runner.

Yes, it does permeate modern culture.  That doesn't change the essential nature of the claim.  Some believe it is a perfectly natural component of our evolution but others believe that we were given warnings about going too far, and that those warnings were for our own good.  Pick your poison.  When I look at the modern world that our scientific method has brought into being, I can't help but see the ills that came with all of the advances.  Ultimately, I don't believe our species can survive without a radical change in our nature.  I believe the catalyst for that kind of enduring change will only be found in war and unimaginable suffering.  I'll add the disclaimer for the few here who love to cast stones at me for being happy about global destruction... nothing could be further from the truth.  I believe these things will happen because of my faith AND because logic also points toward that path for our - possibly near - future.

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1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Yes hackable so it is unsure how you could be controlled or manipulated. There are human designers behind it and they do have their own ideologies that now can be communicated to you in ways you might not like. I don't think it is neutral. In the video, Yuval spoke about tyrants and governments wanting to hack human beings in the past and did not have the technology or science to do it. He says soon some corporations and governments will be able to systematically hack all the people. 

HI Read

What evidence do you have that this is and atheist plot other than this video which isn't evidence and is an opinion piece

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9 minutes ago, and-then said:

Yes, it does permeate modern culture.  That doesn't change the essential nature of the claim.  Some believe it is a perfectly natural component of our evolution but others believe that we were given warnings about going too far, and that those warnings were for our own good.  Pick your poison.  When I look at the modern world that our scientific method has brought into being, I can't help but see the ills that came with all of the advances.  Ultimately, I don't believe our species can survive without a radical change in our nature.  I believe the catalyst for that kind of enduring change will only be found in war and unimaginable suffering.  I'll add the disclaimer for the few here who love to cast stones at me for being happy about global destruction... nothing could be further from the truth.  I believe these things will happen because of my faith AND because logic also points toward that path for our - possibly near - future.

I welcome the coming omnissiah.

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19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I welcome the coming omnissiah.

Most will.  More's the pity. :( 

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1 minute ago, and-then said:

Most will.  More's the pity. :( 

Can you imagine a body without the aches and pain of age. Those who can not walk, walking. Amputees with fully functional arms. Machine bodies taking humans to the depths of space? What has God actually done? I acknowledge that such technology can be used for evil. However I am oddly optimistic. 

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36 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I welcome the coming omnissiah.

ALL PRAISE THE DRAGON MACHINE GOD!

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26 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Can you imagine a body without the aches and pain of age. Those who can not walk, walking. Amputees with fully functional arms. Machine bodies taking humans to the depths of space? What has God actually done? I acknowledge that such technology can be used for evil. However I am oddly optimistic. 

One has to wonder how we’d evolve from there. 
 

cormac

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14 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

One has to wonder how we’d evolve from there. 
 

cormac

Perhaps in to something better. If the tech develops into a highly optimized and effect system. With a machine body and life support, people could live 100's if not 1000's of years. That type of perspective might cause what we consider important to become trivial. 

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Perhaps in to something better. If the tech develops into a highly optimized and effect system. With a machine body and life support, people could live 100's if not 1000's of years. That type of perspective might cause what we consider important to become trivial. 

Potentially, with a machine body we could end up nothing more than a mobile head, spine and reproductive system. That’s a scary thought. 
 

cormac

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Just now, cormac mac airt said:

Potentially, with a machine body we could end up nothing more than a mobile head, spine and reproductive system. That’s a scary thought. 
 

cormac

Probably won't even need reproductive organs. If we can lab grow a brain then technically humans would be obsolete. Society would be rather alien. Though all this is just speculation. 

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5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh…. He’s an “alarmist” shall we say.

You seriously think that after watching the video and listening to Yuval??

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4 hours ago, and-then said:
4 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

In the video Yuval did say they are gods ... he can say whatever he want say or believe but my problem with their view is that they believe in stepping past freedom of choice and disregarding the will of others. Criminals disregard a person's freedom of choice or will. 

Expand  

I've read a couple of his books.  I used that quote because my sense of him is that he is a symbol of the coming deception of humanity.  He has very good didactic skills and smoothly explains concepts so that they sound reasonable but ultimately, he is saying the same thing the Adversary said in the garden, isn't he?  When I discovered that Harari is a kind of guru to Klaus Schwab and Obama, I understood all I needed to know about his worldview.  He is a poison to human free will.

Yes! I agree. 

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3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

HI Read

What evidence do you have that this is and atheist plot other than this video which isn't evidence and is an opinion piece

Did you watch the video? Heard what Yuval said? He doesn't believe in God. He is an atheist. 

Edit - just wanted to add because it seems I have to be more clear! Saying he is an atheist does not mean that every atheist would ever agree with his ideas. No! But this man's views are definitely shaped by a lack of belief in God. I think so. 

Edited by ReadTheGreatControversyEGW
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Religious people being against scientific advancements is nothing new tbh

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