Giza Pyramid ground plan finally solved

[Spiros]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:13 AM, Harte said:

It means they were built in a line. Whatever else you think is beside the point.
You state that Lehner's line misses a corner. I would note that at least he didn't have to INVERT his map to match the line he wanted.
Regarding the shafts, they are just conduits for the cosmic waters of the abyss to flow into the burial chamber (because the chamber is above the entrance.) It wouldn't be surprising, then, that they may have pointed the shafts at particular areas of the sky. The cosmic abyss was behind the stars. Could be they had some idea about which way it flowed or whatever.
They began constructing the same kind of shafts in Khafre's pyramid but didn't complete them. They constructed a separate entrance above the burial chamber instead.

Harte

I don't think it is besides the point because this feature, as you note above,  was not planned to be on a line. They did not make a mistake. None the less a more or less straight line was part of the plan, not because it relates to the Orion belts stars, because it doesn't, but because it usually relates to the position of planets on the ecliptic when they are close to each other. By measuring the average slope of the Khufu Pyramid shafts it is easy to note that they do not align to Thuban, Kochab, or Sirius. This was not what the architects had in mind. No the Khafre's pyramid shafts were completed. They intended them to align with the horizon, no need to point them up. 

[Trelane]

33 minutes ago, Spiros said:

I don't think it is besides the point because this feature, as you note above,  was not planned to be on a line. They did not make a mistake. None the less a more or less straight line was part of the plan, not because it relates to the Orion belts stars, because it doesn't, but because it usually relates to the position of planets on the ecliptic when they are close to each other. By measuring the average slope of the Khufu Pyramid shafts it is easy to note that they do not align to Thuban, Kochab, or Sirius. This was not what the architects had in mind. No the Khafre's pyramid shafts were completed. They intended them to align with the horizon, no need to point them up. 

You can prove the intent and motives of architects of the pyramids? You should be a prosecutor with that sort of insight.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Trelane

[Spiros]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:37 PM, Abramelin said:

Spiros, excuse my ignorance, but I think I remember I read somewhere that they found a socalled 4th pyramid next to those 3 that are supposed to represent Orion's belt.

That pyramid proved to be nothing but a mastaba or a simple temple erected for some wife of a pharao.

But does that temple/mastaba not interfere with Bauval's theory about 'Orion's Belt'?

Below I show (I posted this on another thread) how the step stop of Khentkaus I which is not a pyramid seems to define the altitude at upper culmination of Venus close to the Summer Solstice. This is angle is close to that of the Sun for that period. 

Since this is not a pyramid I don't think it interfered with OCT or any other mapping theory. Apart from my theories the only ones that I know of that provide an idea of how the placement of the Gizamids was chosen is OCT, Andrew Collins' Cygnus theory, and Scott Creighton's geometrical theory. Clive Ross's Mars rotational period idea works well to explain the angle of the 3 Giza pyramids.    

 

[Kenemet]

22 hours ago, Spiros said:

I don't think it is besides the point because this feature, as you note above,  was not planned to be on a line. They did not make a mistake. None the less a more or less straight line was part of the plan, not because it relates to the Orion belts stars, because it doesn't, but because it usually relates to the position of planets on the ecliptic when they are close to each other. By measuring the average slope of the Khufu Pyramid shafts it is easy to note that they do not align to Thuban, Kochab, or Sirius. This was not what the architects had in mind. No the Khafre's pyramid shafts were completed. They intended them to align with the horizon, no need to point them up. 

EVERYTHING that sits on level ground aligns perfectly with the horizon.  Trees, for example.  My car, sitting on the street in front of my house aligns with the horizon.  My cat, strolling past my computer, is in perfect alignment with the horizon.

Also, you seem to think that the only thing at the pyramids is just a big pyramid.  They had walls, temples, and other buildings around them when they were in use.

[Spiros]

The perimeter of the base of Khafre's pyramid is 1644 royal cubits

 

P = (411 rc) x 4 = 1644 royal cubits

 

This is the isopsephy value of the name Spiros as Spyridon(Saint Spyridon) {ΣΠΥΡΙΔΩΝ}.

 

ΣΠΥΡΙΔΩΝ = 200+80+400+100+10+4+800+50 = 1644

 

Name date 12 - 12 , December the 12th, day that Saint Spyridon passed away.

 

The brightest star of the Orion constellation is Rigel who the ancient Egyptians called Sah. The year 2024 AD the apparent(taking into account the refraction of the atmosphere) altitude of Rigel at upper culmination coincides with the slope of Khufu's pyramid. 

 

But the actual altitude of Rigel aligns with the slope of Khufu's pyramid the year 2039 AD.

 

If we chose the day of the year that Rigel crosses the Meridian in the South during Midnight so as to be the perfect occasion for observing it we notice that the year 2039 this is Midnight between December 11 and December 12. 

 

We station ourselves at Khufu's pyramid at Giza at Midnight 11-12 2039 AD. The actual altitude of Rigel is 51.8627 degrees. This is the slope of Khufu's pyramid. At this exact time we move to Athens and note the altitude is 43.35 degrees.

 

Petrie measured the slope of Khafre's pyramid at any one of the 4 corners and found it is. 43.385 ± 0.066 degrees. At the same time according to Glen Dash the azimuth - direction between the center base of Khafre's pyramid and the center base of Khufu's pyramid is 43.302 degrees. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Spiros

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, Spiros said:

The perimeter of the base of Khafre's pyramid is 1644 royal cubits

 

P = (411 rc) x 4 = 1644 royal cubits

 

This is the isopsephy value of the name Spiros as Spyridon(Saint Spyridon) {ΣΠΥΡΙΔΩΝ}.

 

ΣΠΥΡΙΔΩΝ = 200+80+400+100+10+4+800+50 = 1644

 

Name date 12 - 12 , December the 12th, day that Saint Spyridon passed away.

 

Ohhhh, it's one of those kind of threads.

[Harte]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, Spiros said:

I don't think it is besides the point because this feature, as you note above,  was not planned to be on a line. They did not make a mistake. None the less a more or less straight line was part of the plan, not because it relates to the Orion belts stars, because it doesn't, but because it usually relates to the position of planets on the ecliptic when they are close to each other. By measuring the average slope of the Khufu Pyramid shafts it is easy to note that they do not align to Thuban, Kochab, or Sirius. This was not what the architects had in mind. No the Khafre's pyramid shafts were completed. They intended them to align with the horizon, no need to point them up. 

Khafre's shafts became superfluous when the second entrance to his burial chamber was added. It is above the chamber, allowing for the cosmic river to flow in.

Harte

[Spiros]

On 12/12/2023 at 1:05 PM, Trelane said:

You can prove the intent and motives of architects of the pyramids? You should be a prosecutor with that sort of insight.

The architects of the Giza pyramid constructed them with a great degree of accuracy. If they wanted to align the corners in a straight line this would have been extremely easy, a lot easier than aligning the base of a pyramid to the 4 cardinal directions.  

[Antigonos]

1 minute ago, Spiros said:

If they wanted to align the corners in a straight line this would have been extremely easy, a lot easier than aligning the base of a pyramid to the 4 cardinal directions.  

I don’t know if it would have been “extremely  easy”, but we do know as mentioned by Thanos5150 that there is precedent for the ability to do so as certain archaic dynastic structures had their corners aligned to the cardinal directions in the Mesopotamian fashion.

[Spiros]

3 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

I don’t know if it would have been “extremely  easy”, but we do know as mentioned by Thanos5150 that there is precedent for the ability to do so as certain archaic dynastic structures had their corners aligned to the cardinal directions in the Mesopotamian fashion.

Do you have a link to that? We also need to take into account the accuracy. Where do we draw the line and say, yes this seems to be aligned to the cardinal directions. Also, the fact that aligning to the 4 cardinal directions is hard does not mean it cannot be done, just that it takes more work, or more knowledge of geometry or laws of physical so it can be applied with a high degree of accuracy. 

[Spiros]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:31 AM, Kenemet said:

EVERYTHING that sits on level ground aligns perfectly with the horizon.  Trees, for example.  My car, sitting on the street in front of my house aligns with the horizon.  My cat, strolling past my computer, is in perfect alignment with the horizon.

Also, you seem to think that the only thing at the pyramids is just a big pyramid.  They had walls, temples, and other buildings around them when they were in use.

If there are buildings around the pyramids that were not built using megalithic techniques it is hard to consider them as part of a plan that will stand the test of time. It is also hard to consider perimetric walls encoding information similar to that of the pyramids. The large temples are interesting, and I have looked into what they may encode, but there presence of course does not in any way disprove celestial correlations. They can easily be seen as complementary or corroborative encodings. 

 

Trees naturally align with the sky not the ground. If someone sees a tree on the ground he would ask what happened. Did someone cut it. But many consider unjustifiably a shaft that aligns with the horizon to be necessarily unfinished. Like the so-called Khufu pyramid South "subterranean passage" which due to size cannot be a passage but a "air" shaft, like the ones that originate from the other two chambers. The Khufu Pyramid complex consists of 5 pyramids and the main Khufu pyramid has 5 shafts. In the same way the Khafre pyramid complex consists of 2 pyramids and the main pyramid consists of 2 shafts. 

 

The Khafre pyramid thus encodes for the first time an alignment of a star with he horizon in the North. The Sun, Moon, or the planets cannot take part in such an alignment. Does this relate to the pyramid age? No. As mentioned in previous posts the Giza pyramids encode alignments of our own age. So does a bright or important star align during our age to the horizon as observed from Giza? No. That is why we have to move to a different location. If we therefore move to Athens we notice that this star is the brightest star of the Draco constellation. This star has an apparent magnitude of 2.2 and is named Eltanin. The whole Draco constellation is circumpolar and it does not set, it just this star at the mouth of the serpent that dips to the ground. This is the Northern alignment. Southern alignments also exist. So a short or long shaft that is horizontal can function equally well to encode an alignment of a star on the horizon.    

Edited December 15, 2023 by Spiros

[Thanos5150]

20 hours ago, Spiros said:

Do you have a link to that? We also need to take into account the accuracy. Where do we draw the line and say, yes this seems to be aligned to the cardinal directions. Also, the fact that aligning to the 4 cardinal directions is hard does not mean it cannot be done, just that it takes more work, or more knowledge of geometry or laws of physical so it can be applied with a high degree of accuracy. 

*Sigh*. You even participated in that thread Spiros: HERE. I don't get it. Or from GHMB which is better because all of the pictures are still active: HERE.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Thanos5150

[Spiros]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:38 AM, Thanos5150 said:

*Sigh*. You even participated in that thread Spiros: HERE. I don't get it. Or from GHMB which is better because all of the pictures are still active: HERE.

None of these structures though are aligned to the cardinal directions. The first structure that I am aware of that aligned was the Sneferu Medium pyramid. If you know of such a structure please post the geographical coordinates so alignment can be confirmed (if possible) via Google Earth.

[+Razman]

To me it wouldn't seem unusual if they were aligned to Orion, or any other constellation , in those days the skies were quite dark , and a constellation like Orion would really stick out . The ancients were often inspired by the night skies.

[Thanos5150]

15 hours ago, Spiros said:

None of these structures though are aligned to the cardinal directions. The first structure that I am aware of that aligned was the Sneferu Medium pyramid. If you know of such a structure please post the geographical coordinates so alignment can be confirmed (if possible) via Google Earth.

....

Not sure what the malfunction is. They all are, again, HERE. They are aligned by their corners to north/south. 

[Spiros]

11 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

....

Not sure what the malfunction is. They all are, again, HERE. They are aligned by their corners to north/south. 

No they don't. These structures align with the direction of the Nile. Their diagonals also do not align with the cardinal directions. You can check for yourself using Google Earth. For example I checked four mastaba - the topmost at Saqqara including the 3038. Two were aligned around 13 degrees and the other around 9 degrees, that is diagonally. At Abydos on the other hand it's not even close. 

[Thanos5150]

12 hours ago, Spiros said:

No they don't. These structures align with the direction of the Nile.

Yes they do. No, it has nothing to do with the Nile. Nearly all structures from the 1st and 2nd Dynasties have their corners aligned north/south regardless of their proximity to the Nile. Regardless, I am not interested in this conversation. 

[Spiros]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:36 AM, Thanos5150 said:

Yes they do. No, it has nothing to do with the Nile. Nearly all structures from the 1st and 2nd Dynasties have their corners aligned north/south regardless of their proximity to the Nile. Regardless, I am not interested in this conversation. 

When someone refers to an alignment he should state the error margin or accuracy.

 

From: On the astronomical orientation of the IV dynasty Egyptian pyramids and the dating of the second Giza pyramid. - Giulio Magli

Quote

Meidum –20’ ± 1.0'
Bent Pyramid -17.3'± 0.2'
Red Pyramid -8.7'± 0.2'
Khufu -3.4'± 0.2'
Khafre -6.0'± 0.2'
Menkaure +12.4'± 1.0'

All these divergences are in minutes of a degree, not multiple degrees.

 

 

[Kenemet]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:15 AM, razman said:

To me it wouldn't seem unusual if they were aligned to Orion, or any other constellation , in those days the skies were quite dark , and a constellation like Orion would really stick out . The ancients were often inspired by the night skies.

However, they weren't particularly interested in things of the nighttime.  Night was full of demons and other scary things.  In addition, they didn't really record the sky as accurately as the Sumerians.

Nor is Orion mentioned in myth or lore.  There's no temples to Orion (at some points in history it was viewed as two different constellations.)

 

[Windowpane]

8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Nor is Orion mentioned in myth or lore. 

Well ... the constellation that we know today as Orion wasn't quite the same as the AE constellation.  Many authorities (e.g., Richard Wilkinson [127], George Hart [150]) state that the constellation in question was personified by the god Sah - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sah_(god), and that he:

Quote

represent[ed] a constellation that encompassed the stars in Orion and Lepus,^[1] as well as stars found in some neighbouring modern constellations.^[2][3]

(The hieroglyphic characters representing Sah's name are given in that Wiki). 

Sah is mentioned in the PTs (e.g., 723): 

Quote

[to the king] "You shall reach the sky as Orion, your soul shall be as effective as Sothis."

But did the authors of the PTs have in mind the stars of the constellation that we recognise as Orion (at that time accompanied perhaps by some other stars) when they wrote this?

[Essan]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:15 PM, razman said:

To me it wouldn't seem unusual if they were aligned to Orion, or any other constellation , in those days the skies were quite dark , and a constellation like Orion would really stick out . The ancients were often inspired by the night skies.

In my opinion it's actually the opposite - aligning buildings with a constellation would be unusual simply because they are were not as distinctive in ancient skies as they appear to (most of) us today.

We only see the very brightest stars.   So Orion really stands out.   But in an unpolluted sky, we see thousands more stars filling the gaps and, whilst the overall vista is much more impressive, individual constellations really don't stand out so well.   Well, not to me, anyway.

[+Razman]

3 minutes ago, Essan said:

In my opinion it's actually the opposite - aligning buildings with a constellation would be unusual simply because they are were not as distinctive in ancient skies as they appear to (most of) us today.

We only see the very brightest stars.   So Orion really stands out.   But in an unpolluted sky, we see thousands more stars filling the gaps and, whilst the overall vista is much more impressive, individual constellations really don't stand out so well.   Well, not to me, anyway.

I imagine it wasn't called "Orion" back then or even seen as one whole constellation ( all the stars currently associated with it), , but those 3 stars are pretty bright .

[Thanos5150]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:31 PM, Spiros said:

When someone refers to an alignment he should state the error margin or accuracy.

Nah. I'm good, thanks. 

But if they are all off, according to you, doesn't this mean the pole shifted? Or the earth flipped over? Jesus farted? I think that's how these things are supposed to work. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Thanos5150

[+Razman]

18 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

Nah. I'm good, thanks. 

But if they are all off, according to you, doesn't this mean the pole shifted? Or the earth flipped over? Jesus farted? I think that's how these things are supposed to work. 

I'll go with a Jesus fart.

[Antigonos]

2 hours ago, razman said:

I'll go with a Jesus fart.

Must’ve been a good one.