Israeli military mistakenly kills 3 hostages in Gaza

[Setton]

3 minutes ago, and-then said:

I'd say that what is sad is thinking one is doing a favor to the Palestinians by making it possible for their tyrannical government to keep them under the boot. 

Yes, I'm sure they're much happier having their children's heads blown apart.

[Setton]

15 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Israel-Hamas war: Netanyahu says military pressure 'will lead to the release' of all hostages...

...unless Israel kills them first.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Setton

[Grim Reaper 6]

16 minutes ago, and-then said:

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-19

The ICRC disagrees, Reaper.  These kinds of entities are sacrosanct ONLY until one party begins using them to wage war.  It is patently obvious that Hamas is doing just that.  These mentions hospitals but schools and mosques are included as well.

The ICRC does not in anyway supersede either the ICC - International Criminal Court or the Geneva Convention!!

16 minutes ago, and-then said:

"The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded".

I'd say that what is sad is thinking one is doing a favor to the Palestinians by making it possible for their tyrannical government to keep them under the boot.  The bottom line is that Israel couldn't defend itself at all if civilian deaths were a hindrance to fighting back.  I'd also remind everyone that this bloodshed could end in an hour if Hamas surrendered and asked for terms.  I don't notice any of you guys demanding that though.  It's always ONLY about what Israel must do.

Please stop deflecting it isn't becoming at all, 

Quote ""The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded"."

If these facilities are being used by terrorist, they can only be attacked by ground troops. No Rockets, Artillery, Tanks or Aircraft can be used to attack these facilities according to international Law which can't be superseded of Nullified. The International Committee of the Red Cross, has no envelopment in the investigation or prosecution of International Crimes Against Humanity or War Crimes so please stop grasping at straws you can't win this discussion!! 

[+and-then]

44 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

It’s very very sad, however the information you provided here does not overshadow or nullify the Geneva Convention ot the finding of the International Criminal Court.

Not all nations are members of the ICC.  Neither the US nor Israel have signed that treaty.  I think nearly all nations signed onto the Geneva Conventions and this is what is cited by the ICRC.

https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/countries-arent-part-of-icc/

Believe it or not, the three first world powers – United States, Russia, and China – aren’t part of the ICC, each for its own particular reasons. These absences have been a very common topic since the creation of this intergovernmental organization twenty years ago, and until this day it’s quite often spoken among politicians, journalists, analysts and diplomats.

Other notable absences are Israel, Qatar, Iraq, and Libya; some of them with a very turbulent past (and present) and with a few not-very-good things in common

[Grim Reaper 6]

20 minutes ago, and-then said:

Not all nations are members of the ICC.  Neither the US nor Israel have signed that treaty.  I think nearly all nations signed onto the Geneva Conventions and this is what is cited by the ICRC.

https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/countries-arent-part-of-icc/

Believe it or not, the three first world powers – United States, Russia, and China – aren’t part of the ICC, each for its own particular reasons. These absences have been a very common topic since the creation of this intergovernmental organization twenty years ago, and until this day it’s quite often spoken among politicians, journalists, analysts and diplomats.

Other notable absences are Israel, Qatar, Iraq, and Libya; some of them with a very turbulent past (and present) and with a few not-very-good things in common

Quote: Believe it or not, the three first world powers – United States, Russia, and China

Whether a nationtional leader is a signatory / Member or not they are still handed over to the international Criminal Court. Not being a member only effects their ability to vote on ICC resolutions nothing more.

I mean you know as well as I do that the ICC prosecuted President Putin even though Russia was not a signatory of the ICC and they issued an International Warrant for President Putin's arrest. You see the ICC doesn't have Policeman who hunt down criminals and arrest them. Member nations handle arresting criminals found and turn them over to the ICC for prosecution. If they are found guilty they are sentenced and incarcerated in the International Courts Prison located at The Hague.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Grim Reaper 6

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Quote: Believe it or not, the three first world powers – United States, Russia, and China

Whether a nationtional leader is a signatory / Member or not they are still handed over to the international Criminal Court. Not being member only effects their ability to vote on ICC resolutions nothing more

I mean you know as well as I do that the ICC prosecuted President Putin even though Russia was not a signatory of the ICC and they issued an International Warrant for President Putin's arrest. You see the ICC doesn't have Policeman who hunt down criminals and arrest them. Member nations handle arresting criminals found and turn them over to the ICC for prosecution. If they are found guilty they are sentenced and incarcerated in the International Courts Prison located at The Hague.

Yes, this is an accurate description but the point being made is that Israel IS operating within the "Laws of War" according to the Geneva conventions.  It's bloody and heartbreaking, yes, but Israel did not attack Gaza out of the blue, in fact, this is the very reason Israel has postponed and procrastinated for so long in dealing with this Iranian prxy.  They KNEW that the world would come howling against them and that it would cost the IDF many young soldiers if they moved on Hamas as it is embedded in Gaza. 

The events of 10/7 galvanized a population that had been sharply divided for about a year - since Netanyahu was elected - and they are finally ready to accept the losses this war will bring because they know if they fail, the rest of their "neighbors" will be on them like a pack of wild dogs.  That's the main point that people who are obsessing over civilian deaths in Gaza, are overlooking or ignoring.  This war isn't one of choice.  Israel is faced with a world that is against them being in that land.  If Iran or some other nation managed to use a nuclear sucker-punch and took Israel out, there would be global celebrations and I think we all know it.

Israelis certainly understand it.  We are getting down to the place where there can be no more concessions to these people in Gaza.  For decades, these people have had one opportunity after another to coexist, make peace and welcome in prosperity.  They have refused every time.  They make it clear with every action that they will only rest when the land is Judenrein.  Since the Israelis are never going to be pushed off that land, the world has a great big problem and it will not solve it by demonizing Israel and casting Palestinians as martyrs.  That technique only works in the make-believe world of global media.