Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

It's spelled Hanukkah or Chanukah. The ritual you mentioned takes place on Passover not Hanukkah. An extra glass of wine is set on the table and the door opened for the prophet Elijah to enter. He seems a bit weird from the various descriptions of him. I certainly wouldn't leave my door open.

Well I sorry I spelled it wrong no disrespect intended, so it was Passover I attended. Well, I didn't see anyone enter the room, but I still believe the wine in the glass did go down, and that amazes me to this very day.

Thanks for the corrections above, appreciate it very much!!!

[Grim Reaper 6]

20 hours ago, and-then said:

No one has said that all Palestinians are terrorists.  The reason all of those entities have been bombed is they are being used intentionally by Hamas to shield their fighters from the IDF.

You have said in previous posts that all Palestinians are terrorists and that you don’t care how many die!

20 hours ago, and-then said:

 

  In short, if Israel decided never to launch an attack where civilians might be killed, they'd never have a chance to survive at all.  They've proven their claims that Hamas uses Palestinians as shields.  Every Palestinian death in any of those locations are the responsibility of Hamas and no one else.

No one is saying that Israel should not launch attacks where the possibility of Civilian casualties are concerned. However, when planning the ROE - Rules of Engagement a great deal of consideration must be taken to minimize those casualties. Unfortunately, Hamas cannot be blamed for all the Civilian casualties that have occurred either, because civilian casualties were not even considered during Israel’s bombing campaign. During this campaign Israel was trying to destroy Hamas tunnels and very very very high Civilian Casualties were excepted without concern in the pre-suit of destroying those Tunnels. That is why there are Approximately 25,000 civilian casualties with the largest percentage being women and children.

This is a fact that can not be denied, I wonder how many Israel Hostages died because Israel actions.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Grim Reaper 6

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

You've repeatedly mentioned that ground troops must be used to attack hospitals and other civilian locations that have lost their protection status, but have not cited any specific international laws that say so. I'd like to see the specifics of those laws as written by the Geneva Convention and ICC and/or any relevant source links.

Here are the publications used during War Planning, these manuals allow Military Planners to determine the ROE -Rules of Engagement. These manuals cover both the Geneva Convention and International Laws of War. These manuals are used to determine when Bombing, Rocket Attacks and Artillery can be used. They also provide guidance when ground troops should be used exclusively. Now, like I said in a previous post I was personally involved in Military Planning for 23 years, while it was only part of my responsibilities it was a very very important part of my responsibility.

 Newport International Rules of Engagement Handbook: https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2998&context=ils

Department of Defense Law of War Manual: https://www.onlinelibrary.iihl.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY-2023-1.pdf 

In the above manual you can start reading at page 98.

[qxcontinuum]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:59 PM, docyabut2 said:

House committee to launch investigation into UN agency for alleged 'troubling connection' to Hamas

One member of the House committee said there's 'extensive' evidence of ties between the UNRWA and Hamas

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-committee-launch-investigation-un-agency-alleged-troubling-connection-hamas

For some reasons I don't quite understand yet or have not connected the dots of why UN and EU is in a such deep relation with Arab countries lead by terrorist governments. Majority of the help they provide to these countries to my understanding, goes of course to their cause which is martyrdom and weapons. Aparently each palestinian dying as a martyr aka bombing USA troops or Israel, his family members were paid a solid lumpsum of money , monthly. So really all that help from Eu was supporting terorissm 😞 

this is just a case but surely there's plainly .

Edited December 26, 2023 by qxcontinuum

[Kittens Are Jerks]

3 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Here are the publications used during War Planning, these manuals allow Military Planners to determine the ROE -Rules of Engagement. These manuals cover both the Geneva Convention and International Laws of War. These manuals are used to determine when Bombing, Rocket Attacks and Artillery can be used. They also provide guidance when ground troops should be used exclusively. Now, like I said in a previous post I was personally involved in Military Planning for 23 years, while it was only part of my responsibilities it was a very very important part of my responsibility.

 Newport International Rules of Engagement Handbook: https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2998&context=ils

Department of Defense Law of War Manual: https://www.onlinelibrary.iihl.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY-2023-1.pdf 

In the above manual you can start reading at page 98.

Thanks, but the links don't work. No need to re-post as I don't need to see the manuals.

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Thanks, but the links don't work. No need to re-post as I don't need to see the manuals.

They work here, I will try and figure out whats wrong sorry for the confusion.

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

All one has to do is look at the number of useful idiots Hamas has gained globally to see that their strategy is working.

I can think of a couple here who say they support Israel but would demand that Israel refrain from fighting back if it would cause civilian casualties.  Nevermind the fact that the IDF has a lower civilian to military death ratio than any 1st world nation, including the US and UK.

[+and-then]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:50 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

On this point i certainly agree with you, Hamas doesn't care what happens to the Palestinian they are tools that are only valuable as human shields nothing more.

Yet you are effectively calling for Israel to surrender to Hamas because to fight them will cause civilian deaths.  The US and UK have a MUCH higher ratio of dead civilians to military.  Israel cannot fight back effectively and still not have dead civilians.  They choose to survive in their land and I support their fight.  There was a ceasefire in place on the morning of October 7th.  Latest polling has well over 70% approval of Hamas.  Israel needs to finish the job so that even more Palestinians don't have to die in the future.  A future that the world - and you, apparently - would like to see by leaving Hamas in power.

[+and-then]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:42 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

It is illegal to Bomb Hospitals, Medical Centers, Religious buildings both Christain and Muslim, Schools, and especially refugee Camps.

You have been shown the pertinent Geneva convention of protection for these facilities yet you keep disputing them.  ALL of the locations you mention are only protected as long as a combatant doesn't use them to attack or to further their war aims.  EVERY SINGLE rule has been meticulously followed and just because you refuse to acknowledge that does not make Israel guilty of anything.  You are using the rules/opinions of the ICC as though they hold more sway than the GC.  That isn't accurate and won't be accurate no matter how long you bluster over it.  

Israel needs to tell the world to eff off and go about finishing this demonic entity you seem hell-bent on supporting.  As for "refugee camps" those camps are now filled with high rise apartments, streets and infrastructure yet you keep repeating the Hamas line as though it's 1948.  It's ridiculous.

[Grim Reaper 6]

27 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Thanks, but the links don't work. No need to re-post as I don't need to see the manuals.

Your welcome, so we can respectfully agree to disagree on this subject!

[+and-then]

On 12/24/2023 at 5:25 PM, Ogbin said:

Tell me, how does Israel get Hamas to stop brutality attacking them, get every nation that is plotting their destruction to stop and leave them alone. I don’t think saying please will work. 

Any person of average intelligence can look at the history and see that Israel will never be accepted so those who keep demanding Israel give concessions would just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, they did deserve it" after Hamas slaughtered the last Jew in the region.  They are just too cowardly to admit it.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, and-then said:

You have been shown the pertinent Geneva convention of protection for these facilities yet you keep disputing them.  ALL of the locations you mention are only protected as long as a combatant doesn't use them to attack or to further their war aims.  EVERY SINGLE rule has been meticulously followed and just because you refuse to acknowledge that does not make Israel guilty of anything.  You are using the rules/opinions of the ICC as though they hold more sway than the GC.  That isn't accurate and won't be accurate no matter how long you bluster over it.

Your totally wrong I am not doing that at all. The only person here that is foaming at the mouth and blustering is you, no one else. But I don't hold it against you at, because first of all you have no knowledge on the subject and second your driven by emotions, where I am driven by facts.

2 minutes ago, and-then said:

Israel needs to tell the world to eff off and go about finishing this demonic entity you seem hell-bent on supporting.  As for "refugee camps" those camps are now filled with high rise apartments, streets and infrastructure yet you keep repeating the Hamas line as though it's 1948.  It's ridiculous.

Get off your soap box you have proven nothing except that you don't understand, so -please save your rhetorical comments for those who have the same opinion you do. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong, I honestly hope I am wrong, but I know better. As this conflict whines down the investigations will conclude and either indictments will come down or they won't I can wait until then and trust me I won't allow you to forget the results!!

[+and-then]

15 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

As this conflict whines down the investigations will conclude and either indictments will come down or they won't

The ICC may very well try indictments but Israel is not a signatory to an organization that treats them the same way the UN does.  IOW, their indictments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.  Just take a look at the outrageous disproportionality of UN resolutions against Israel.  The UN and ICC are openly biased and are easily ignored by Israel.

[+and-then]

As for Israel's claims that Hamas uses hospitals for bases -

https://nypost.com/2023/12/19/news/gaza-hospital-chief-admits-to-being-hamas-commander/

[+and-then]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:50 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yea I think you right Tate, and Iran will pay a huge Price they are idiots!!!!!

 

THIS^ is the price of nearly killing US personnel.  The US could rain hell down on Iran but that would require an actual president and not a shill being used to create pro-Iranian facts on the ground.  Biden will never strike Iran because he isn't the one calling the shots.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Thanks, but the links don't work. No need to re-post as I don't need to see the manuals.

Do you remember in a previous post in this thread I talked about the Iraqi Hospital and Ambulance that were destroyed for firing upon US Forces. I just scanned this in, below is what's let of an Iraqi Field Ambulance after destroyed, it not a great picture I took it 1991! The vehicle burned and the Cresent marking burned off but the gun on top is a 12.7mm Antiaircraft Gun that they were firing at US Helicopters. I just don't get the stupidity of those fools firing from Ambulance, if that never happened they would have never been assaulted. In the back there were 3 dead patients I have other photo's but I never post photos that show the dead. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

30 minutes ago, and-then said:

The ICC may very well try indictments but Israel is not a signatory to an organization that treats them the same way the UN does.  IOW, their indictments aren't worth the paper they're printed on.  Just take a look at the outrageous disproportionality of UN resolutions against Israel.  The UN and ICC are openly biased and are easily ignored by Israel.

Israel is a signatory and they updated it in 2007, as far as the rest is concerned OK!!!

[Horta]

10 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

For some reasons I don't quite understand yet or have not connected the dots of why UN and EU is in a such deep relation with Arab countries lead by terrorist governments. Majority of the help they provide to these countries to my understanding, goes of course to their cause which is martyrdom and weapons. Aparently each palestinian dying as a martyr aka bombing USA troops or Israel, his family members were paid a solid lumpsum of money , monthly. So really all that help from Eu was supporting terorissm 😞 

The US has funded or trained so much "terrorism" around the world (particularly mid east and Latin America) that when they use the label it gets cartoonish. They usually spin them as "freedom fighters" when working for US interests though. Such as the groups in the recent (failed) Syrian regime change operation.

As to terrorist governments, no one does terrorism quite like the west, it's just that their populations buy into the narrative and rhetoric. If only they did "democracy" as well. As Chomsky has been correctly saying for quite a while...

"The US is the world's leading terrorist state..."

If you don't think the present US funded slaughter in Gaza is a terror campaign (and ethnic cleansing) by an extremist rogue state on a civilian population that it is occupying, then I'm not sure what to say... History didn't begin on Oct 7.

When the west call others terrorists I'm reminded of this fella. A great supporter of Palestinian liberation. He was still on the US terrorist list until shortly before his death, long after winning the Nobel peace prize (deservedly, unlike some others).

Quote

"This hero worship is misplaced." - John Carlisle MP, on the BBC screening of the Free Nelson Mandela concert in 1990

"The ANC is a typical terrorist organisation ... Anyone who thinks it is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land" - Margaret Thatcher, 1987.

"How much longer will the Prime Minister allow herself to be kicked in the face by this black terrorist?" - Terry Dicks MP, mid-1980s.

"Nelson Mandela should be shot" - Teddy Taylor MP, mid-1980s

Nelson Mandela: From 'terrorist' to tea with the Queen

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Horta

[qxcontinuum]

3 hours ago, Horta said:

The US has funded or trained so much "terrorism" around the world (particularly mid east and Latin America) that when they use the label it gets cartoonish. They usually spin them as "freedom fighters" when working for US interests though. Such as the groups in the recent (failed) Syrian regime change operation.

As to terrorist governments, no one does terrorism quite like the west, it's just that their populations buy into the narrative and rhetoric. If only they did "democracy" as well. As Chomsky has been correctly saying for quite a while...

"The US is the world's leading terrorist state..."

If you don't think the present US funded slaughter in Gaza is a terror campaign (and ethnic cleansing) by an extremist rogue state on a civilian population that it is occupying, then I'm not sure what to say... History didn't begin on Oct 7.

When the west call others terrorists I'm reminded of this fella. A great supporter of Palestinian liberation. He was still on the US terrorist list until shortly before his death, long after winning the Nobel peace prize (deservedly, unlike some others).

 

 

 

 

It certainly happens both ways "ideally speaking", the definition of terorrism can be attributed by those existing in either side supporting its cause and values. Personally being on the western side, I won't call out America saying that it supports terrorism aiding certain entities representing its core values logistically and financially, as I believe in most of the values it represents and promotes; freedom, democracy, equality, women'r rights, religious rights etc.,..

If i was probably an extremist which doesn't believe in women rights, freedom of speech who thinks my religion is the only rightful one, i'd see thing differently. This is why people should really look to be big picture and step out their small misery world. Those extremists should remember they exist on this earth because women have gave em birth and feed them, that they need to understand that their friends and family don't always have to share their point of view, embrace diversity and be tolerant to each other. This is called progress, yes judging from the prism of evolution, the western world seems to have move up some 500 years ahead of many of the Arab countries led by terorrist organizations by principles which existed in medieval times.  

Edited December 26, 2023 by qxcontinuum

[+and-then]

9 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Israel is a signatory and they updated it in 2007, as far as the rest is concerned OK!!!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/11/17/whats-international-criminal-court-and-why-countries-bailing/94017990/

Why did Israel not sign the Rome Statute?

 

 

(June 30, 2002). Israel has refrained from signing the Rome Statute because of its concerns about being the subject of prosecutions generating from the illegal status of the settlements in the Palestinian territories, which are considered by many to violate the Fourth Geneva convention.

There does seem to be some confusion in sources, some saying they did, most saying they didn't but the one that makes the most sense logically is that they signed - with a major caveat - due to the way the UN is reliably anti-Israel in all they do.  Israel basically said we'll sign but we refuse to be held to "account" for obviously political reasons by this or any other court.

Will you tell me next the the UN and ICC treat all nations the same, without bias?

Edited December 26, 2023 by and-then

[+and-then]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382582

THIS^ is a growing sentiment in Israel due to the fact that our nation is tying the hands of the IDF, making demands that a lower level of force be used.  This accounts for the sudden increase in deaths among the IDF.  Between these tactics and the ever increasing supplies into Hamas, Israel will be faced with the defacto survival of Hamas and ending the war because eventually the price in dead soldiers will be too high.  IMO, Biden and whoever is pulling his strings is EVIL and God is surely watching...

[Setton]

22 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The Israelis are caught between a rock and a hard place. No matter what efforts they take to mitigate civilian casualties, they are dealing with an enemy that deliberately increases the risk to civilians by hiding among them and using them as human shields. Hamas knows that it stands to gain from the death of Palestinians. That's why it uses civilian buildings to house combatants and weapons, and why it fires rockets from Gaza's densely populated areas. Hamas knows that once Israel strikes civilian areas, it will result in accusations of war crimes and demands for restraint.

All one has to do is look at the number of useful idiots Hamas has gained globally to see that their strategy is working.

But the fact of the matter is, the central cause of Gaza’s misery is Hamas. It alone is responsible for the suffering they knowingly invited against the Palestinians. Hamas knew full well the reaction its massacre of innocent Israelis would provoke. It knew and didn't care.

Hamas absolutely knew and cared about the impact on civilians.

It knows that Israel will once again blunder in, massacre civilians and boost Hamas' recruitment for the next 20 years. And Israel obligingly did so.

The greatest enabler of Hamas' aims is Israel itself and it doesn't even see it.

11 hours ago, and-then said:

I can think of a couple here who say they support Israel but would demand that Israel refrain from fighting back if it would cause civilian casualties.  Nevermind the fact that the IDF has a lower civilian to military death ratio than any 1st world nation, including the US and UK.

Source?

Edited December 26, 2023 by Setton

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/11/17/whats-international-criminal-court-and-why-countries-bailing/94017990/

Why did Israel not sign the Rome Statute?

 

 

(June 30, 2002). Israel has refrained from signing the Rome Statute because of its concerns about being the subject of prosecutions generating from the illegal status of the settlements in the Palestinian territories, which are considered by many to violate the Fourth Geneva convention.

There does seem to be some confusion in sources, some saying they did, most saying they didn't but the one that makes the most sense logically is that they signed - with a major caveat - due to the way the UN is reliably anti-Israel in all they do.  Israel basically said we'll sign but we refuse to be held to "account" for obviously political reasons by this or any other court.

Will you tell me next the the UN and ICC treat all nations the same, without bias?

Here is an article you need read, you not going to like but it reality! I used this artcle to start a thread so please if your going respond, respond in the thread!

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

13 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Thanks, but the links don't work. No need to re-post as I don't need to see the manuals.

Kittens here is a thread I started yesterday, I think you would want to see it please read the article.

 

[Tatetopa]

No nation is tying the hands of Israel.  They can do as they choose.  The United States gave advice, they did not command. Israel does not even need the aid the US provides.

On the contrary, we have sheltered Israel from  the initial repercussions and condemnation and taken the heat for it.  Israel does not have to abide by rules of engagement unless they want to continue good relations with nations that do.  The US can help shield Israel, but that doesn't mean we have to be silent when it comes to  their revenge and carelessness.