Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it

[Ogbin]

11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes I do.,

 Optimistic.., I like it
 

12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We seem to be on pretty good terms with Germany and Japan these days.  The Ottoman empire, at least Turkey and Europe seem to be able to get along without large military conflicts or terrorism. Even Ireland, Scotland  and England are trying to get along after 1000 years of  state and terrorist group conflicts

 Germany, Japan, Europe (which has their fair share of problems with Islam), Ireland, Scotland and England are not Islamic fanatics bent on destroying Israel and fulfilling their Islamic prophecies in order for their God to return. And Turkey is currently in a conflict with the Kurds. They also have been bombing the Syrian democratic forces in northern Syria. Turkey has called Israel"terror state" and said its leaders must be tried in international courts, and has compared Netanyahu to Hitler.

12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If mankind is running the show, then we have to do the best we can, and maybe even hold on to faith.  If it is humanity  then  we can be at peace in two or three generations if we dedicate ourselves to doing it. 

 Two or three generations? Let’s focus on making it through this generation first. 
I will see a bit of hope when Islam has a reformation and starts loving and not hating the Infidels and is no longer hell bent on destroying Israel and forcing everyone else to submit to their ideologies through threat of death.. 

12 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Many put stock in the messages Jesus is purported to have given to humanity in his short time on earth., Love and empathy and care for fellow men, withholding of judgement, how to treat a stranger or deal with the poor.  If it is possible to follow his path and pay attention to his words, then it is possible to have peace.

 Islam will never follow after the God of Israel and Christ’s teachings. They do not want peace.., They want you to submit to to them and or die.  It is in their Koran! They can’t even get along with each other and are willing to kill one another over their differences.
There is no peace with Islam, it’s in the history books and in today’s news..

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, Ogbin said:

They do not want peace.., They want you to submit to to them and or die.

I am a little dubious of reading the minds and motives of enemies. 

[Ogbin]

3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I am a little dubious of reading the minds and motives of enemies. 

 One must know his enemy and what his motivation is in order to defeat him. Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist organizations are not just a group of street thugs on the corner selling you a nickel bag.They have a religion that they will die for, and a purpose that they are trying to fulfill. Would it be nice if tomorrow they woke up and decided became peaceful and change their ways? yes. Is it going to happen? most likely not. They believe at the core of who they are that their cause is 100% correct and justified. They will introduce you to your God if given the chance. Look at all time spent planning well organized and thought out attacks, how many resources they use, and the money invested (which comes from other nations). Is it going to be easy to eradicate all this evil? No. But if we don't decide as a worldly collective to end these people, and I mean soon, then we will not prevail later. But alas.. Christ is soon to return. The Bible says it will only get worse. Maybe this is why evil is growing around world in all it's various ways, and nobody knows how to stop it. Maybe, just maybe "The Day Of The Lord" is truly about to happen just as foretold. Maybe this is a sign to the world to get ready for His soon return. Just saying...     

Edited January 3 by Ogbin

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, Ogbin said:

One must know his enemy and what his motivation is in order to defeat him. Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist organizations are not just a group of street thugs on the corner selling you a nickel bag.They have a religion that they will die for, and a purpose that they are trying to fulfill.

No doubt there are some devoted to this cause of religion.  How can I dispute it?

However what the US tried to warn Israel about and what I still believe is that if you kill 20,000 people, a lot of them will have family members that will grieve.  Afterwards they  will continue to blame Israel for their loved ones deaths. Some of those will decide to fight back.  Yes, Israel claims to have removed 8,000 Hamas by death or capture from the battlefield.  How can I doubt that?  Still I can say with certainty that  when you kill a person's family they seek revenge.  Going all the way back to the time the US overthrew a Democratic Iranian government and installed the Shah in Iran through Afghanistan and Iraq, we have seen it bear out that when a large number of civilian casualties are caused recruitment and terrorist activity go up, not down.

People all over the world who watch the news become sympathizers.  They send money or aid to the cause,  Some of them decide to enlist and even fight for the cause. Israel has guaranteed another generation of violent opposition.

 

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Still I can say with certainty that  when you kill a person's family they seek revenge.

The flaw in your reasoning is that Israelis are ALREADY loathed and their deaths are the ultimate honor and joy for their enemies.  Nothing they do can hardly increase it to a more significant degree.  This is an ancient hate and it will not end until one group has utterly destroyed the other.  People willing to do what the Palestinians did on 10/7 couldn't hate Jews worse as a result of this war.

[DarkHunter]

6 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Going all the way back to the time the US overthrew a Democratic Iranian government and installed the Shah in Iran through Afghanistan and Iraq, we have seen it bear out that when a large number of civilian casualties are caused recruitment and terrorist activity go up, not down.

America didn't really install the Shah as much as convince the Shah to exercise the power granted to him in the Iranian constitution to remove the prime minister who got rid of the Iranian parliament after his party lost an election and held an immediate fake election where his party won like 95%+ of the vote, I believeit was about 98% of the vote.  

If you want to look at history in WW2 American carpet bombings killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Germany, Japan, and the other Axis countries yet the post war terrorist activity was near zero post war.  In South Korea Syngman Rhee was a borderline if not outright dictator who brutalized political opponents and anyone deemed a communist, immediately before the Korean War Syngman Rhee killed over 100,000 civilians for being suspected communist sympathizers.  Despite those civilian casualties no real terrorist activity during his presidency.

Afghanistan was a problem cause multiple administrations refused to accept the reality that Afghanistan is not a true and functional state but instead more of a group of multiple ethnic groups and hundreds to thousands of tribes that largely hate each other and has order maintained only by brute force from which ever group is the strongest.  Afghanistan never had any democratic tradition or national identity and believing both could be instilled within two decades was unrealistic as it would be a generational project.  Also didn't help that Pakistani intelligence was actively aiding the Taliban for their own geopolitical reasons.

Iraq was a problem due to the Bush administration being idiotic, specifically after the fall of Iraq the decision to completely disband the Iraqi military and banning the officers, and I believe most if not all of the soldiers, from being able to join the new Iraq military being rebuilt.  Having hundreds of thousands of combatants who are a religious minority in their own country, being banned from the only career they knew, and facing near certain oppression since they effectively had zero power in the new Iraqi government caused extreme sectarian violence.  

Ultimately terrorist activity going up or down is due to multiple issues and is far more complex then just civilian casualties cause terrorist activity.  

[docyabut2]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/03/middleeast/iran-explosions-soleimani-ceremony-intl/index.html

 

Twin blasts kill dozens near slain Iran commander’s grave

[docyabut2]

US carries out strike targeting Iraqi militia leader in Baghdad: official

The Iraqi militia leader — confirmed dead — believed to have been responsible for attacks on US forces

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-carries-strike-targeting-iraqi-militia-leader-baghdad-official

[Ogbin]

13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

However what the US tried to warn Israel about and what I still believe is that if you kill 20,000 people, a lot of them will have family members that will grieve.

 People on both sides are to be grieving for long time to come. Especially the families of the brutally murdered victims of Oct. 7th In Israel. 
 

13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

People all over the world who watch the news become sympathizers.  They send money or aid to the cause,  Some of them decide to enlist and even fight for the cause. Israel has guaranteed another generation of violent opposition.

  Sympathizers for terrorists.. crazy how that happens. But most of their funding is not coming from a telethon on channel 5. It’s coming from nations and organizations that only want to use the Palestinians as pawns not caring if they die. To them the ends justify the means. 
 

Israel has not guaranteed anything other than the fact that they will defend themselves against those who want them dead. Any violent opposition will be the choice of the aggressors to do so. The other choice is to live peacefully. Not a tough decision really..

Edited January 4 by Ogbin

[Ogbin]

9 hours ago, and-then said:

People willing to do what the Palestinians did on 10/7 couldn't hate Jews worse as a result of this war.

Well said! They’ve made it crystal clear their intentions. I’ll never understand how there are those who can not see the blatant truth which is literally being spoken through the Palestinian’s own words and actions towards Israel. 

Edited January 4 by Ogbin

[simplybill]

This is an interesting perspective on the Middle East. 
It’s amazing that the world’s attention is so focused on tiny Israel.

[Tatetopa]

9 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Ultimately terrorist activity going up or down is due to multiple issues and is far more complex then just civilian casualties cause terrorist activity.  

I agree, its only one of many factors.  I appreciate your knowledge and comments in military and technical subjects.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Ogbin said:

Well said! They’ve made it crystal clear their intentions. I’ll never understand how there are those who can not see the blatant truth which is literally being spoken through the Palestinian’s own words and actions towards Israel. 

I've lost any confidence that most who rail against Israel, do so as a result of mere ignorance.  It has been very enlightening to watch the responses of some here who openly declaim against Israel for defending itself against an existential threat.  They'd have Israel tie their hands behind their back and only fight Hamas in ways that would guarantee the deaths of thousands of IDF soldiers.  That demand says more about their true goal than anything else.

[Hankenhunter]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:27 PM, Setton said:

This conflict is following the exact patterns of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya, but with worse civilian casualties. We know exactly how this ends. More radicalisation, more hatred, more death on both sides. Israel doesn't want peace, it wants revenge and collective punishment.

And land. All of it. Israel wants complete control over Palestinians.

.

[simplybill]

49 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

And land. All of it. Israel wants complete control over Palestinians.

.

No, the Israeli government ceded control of Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005. 
And Israel only wants to control the Palestinians who are involved in terrorist activities.

After almost two decades of self-rule, and very generous donated financial aid, Gaza should by now be a wealthy, productive, and secure nation. Instead, they’ve chosen to conduct non-stop war against Israel.