pellinore Posted December 28, 2023 #1 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Why, despite winning their vote to leave the EU, are Brexiters still so angry? Brexiteers are angry because they have 'Got Brexit Done', but it turns out it was not the Brexit they voted for. Brexit was meant to reduce immigration and drive a high wage economy. But immigration has mushroomed since Brexit. Meanwhile most Britons are suffering a cost of living crisis and the highest inflation in living memory. Under all circumstances, we were told, food and energy would be cheaper when we left the EU. The reverse has happened. Brexit was meant to make our borders secure. But whereas there were hundreds of undocumented immigrants before Brexit now there are tens of thousands a year. And we can’t send them back anymore as we could when we were in the EU. Brexit was meant to prevent millions of Turks from flooding the UK. It was a Brexit lie. It was never going to happen. Instead we have millions arriving from further East, mainly the Indian sub-continent, where Patel, Sunak and Braverman’s families originate (and they like to claim they are tough on immigration). We were told we could still work and live in Europe, but it is now fiendishly difficult to do so unless you are very rich. Going to Europe on holiday has become much more difficult - queues at passport control, extra phone charges, higher insurance costs, limited time allowed. We were lied to about having blue passports only if we left the EU. We could have had them in the EU, some countries do. We were meant to see funds sent to the EU revitalise the NHS. But the NHS is in tatters with the longest waiting times ever, a failed 999 service, huge numbers of vacancies and crumbling hospitals. But where did the benefits of not paying our share of EU expenditure go? We have the highest national debt since WW2. The “bonfire of EU regulations” has stalled. In practice we have kept nearly all of the EU regulations (which is probably not surprising since we approved them all in the first place). We are still using metric measurements. Our rivers and seas would be cleaner by not having to follow EU directives, we were told. But they are filthy. Effluent has made many of our beaches too dangerous to swim from. Shipping stuff to and from the EU has become a nightmare for consumers but has sent many small businesses to the wall. The exception is Northern Ireland which the UK PM proudly announced has all the advantages of being in both the UK and the EU. All the “easiest trade deals in the world” seem to have failed to materialise. Generally the few trade deals struck provide worse terms than available to the EU. We were told the fishing industry and agriculture would flourish. That’s not what fisherman and farmers are saying. All those funds from the EU to support the regions have dried up and not been replaced. Even worse what funding does come out of Central Government seems to favour the South East (or Tory constituencies). We were told we would have more sovereignty. All that seems to mean is that we have a new sovereign “long to reign over us” who lives in 30 homes during a housing crisis and doesn’t pay tax whilst the rest of us pay more. We have members of the House of Lords and people who are Members of the British Empire getting cosy government contracts. We were told there would be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside. We would hold all the cards. It hasn’t happened, has it? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted December 28, 2023 #2 Share Posted December 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, pellinore said: Why, despite winning their vote to leave the EU, are Brexiters still so angry? Brexiteers are angry because they have 'Got Brexit Done', but it turns out it was not the Brexit they voted for. Brexit was meant to reduce immigration and drive a high wage economy. But immigration has mushroomed since Brexit. Meanwhile most Britons are suffering a cost of living crisis and the highest inflation in living memory. Under all circumstances, we were told, food and energy would be cheaper when we left the EU. The reverse has happened. Brexit was meant to make our borders secure. But whereas there were hundreds of undocumented immigrants before Brexit now there are tens of thousands a year. And we can’t send them back anymore as we could when we were in the EU. Brexit was meant to prevent millions of Turks from flooding the UK. It was a Brexit lie. It was never going to happen. Instead we have millions arriving from further East, mainly the Indian sub-continent, where Patel, Sunak and Braverman’s families originate (and they like to claim they are tough on immigration). We were told we could still work and live in Europe, but it is now fiendishly difficult to do so unless you are very rich. Going to Europe on holiday has become much more difficult - queues at passport control, extra phone charges, higher insurance costs, limited time allowed. We were lied to about having blue passports only if we left the EU. We could have had them in the EU, some countries do. We were meant to see funds sent to the EU revitalise the NHS. But the NHS is in tatters with the longest waiting times ever, a failed 999 service, huge numbers of vacancies and crumbling hospitals. But where did the benefits of not paying our share of EU expenditure go? We have the highest national debt since WW2. The “bonfire of EU regulations” has stalled. In practice we have kept nearly all of the EU regulations (which is probably not surprising since we approved them all in the first place). We are still using metric measurements. Our rivers and seas would be cleaner by not having to follow EU directives, we were told. But they are filthy. Effluent has made many of our beaches too dangerous to swim from. Shipping stuff to and from the EU has become a nightmare for consumers but has sent many small businesses to the wall. The exception is Northern Ireland which the UK PM proudly announced has all the advantages of being in both the UK and the EU. All the “easiest trade deals in the world” seem to have failed to materialise. Generally the few trade deals struck provide worse terms than available to the EU. We were told the fishing industry and agriculture would flourish. That’s not what fisherman and farmers are saying. All those funds from the EU to support the regions have dried up and not been replaced. Even worse what funding does come out of Central Government seems to favour the South East (or Tory constituencies). We were told we would have more sovereignty. All that seems to mean is that we have a new sovereign “long to reign over us” who lives in 30 homes during a housing crisis and doesn’t pay tax whilst the rest of us pay more. We have members of the House of Lords and people who are Members of the British Empire getting cosy government contracts. We were told there would be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside. We would hold all the cards. It hasn’t happened, has it? Are there stats to back that up or is this simply inflammatory fiction written by a bitter remoaner? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted December 28, 2023 #3 Share Posted December 28, 2023 The source of their dis-ease is internal. It will arise wherever they wander and will seemingly manifest in the clothing of whatever they perceive, for its source lies within their process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted December 28, 2023 #4 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 hours ago, pellinore said: Why, despite winning their vote to leave the EU, are Brexiters still so angry? Brexiteers are angry because they have 'Got Brexit Done', but it turns out it was not the Brexit they voted for. Brexit was meant to reduce immigration and drive a high wage economy. But immigration has mushroomed since Brexit. Meanwhile most Britons are suffering a cost of living crisis and the highest inflation in living memory. Under all circumstances, we were told, food and energy would be cheaper when we left the EU. The reverse has happened. Brexit was meant to make our borders secure. But whereas there were hundreds of undocumented immigrants before Brexit now there are tens of thousands a year. And we can’t send them back anymore as we could when we were in the EU. Brexit was meant to prevent millions of Turks from flooding the UK. It was a Brexit lie. It was never going to happen. Instead we have millions arriving from further East, mainly the Indian sub-continent, where Patel, Sunak and Braverman’s families originate (and they like to claim they are tough on immigration). We were told we could still work and live in Europe, but it is now fiendishly difficult to do so unless you are very rich. Going to Europe on holiday has become much more difficult - queues at passport control, extra phone charges, higher insurance costs, limited time allowed. We were lied to about having blue passports only if we left the EU. We could have had them in the EU, some countries do. We were meant to see funds sent to the EU revitalise the NHS. But the NHS is in tatters with the longest waiting times ever, a failed 999 service, huge numbers of vacancies and crumbling hospitals. But where did the benefits of not paying our share of EU expenditure go? We have the highest national debt since WW2. The “bonfire of EU regulations” has stalled. In practice we have kept nearly all of the EU regulations (which is probably not surprising since we approved them all in the first place). We are still using metric measurements. Our rivers and seas would be cleaner by not having to follow EU directives, we were told. But they are filthy. Effluent has made many of our beaches too dangerous to swim from. Shipping stuff to and from the EU has become a nightmare for consumers but has sent many small businesses to the wall. The exception is Northern Ireland which the UK PM proudly announced has all the advantages of being in both the UK and the EU. All the “easiest trade deals in the world” seem to have failed to materialise. Generally the few trade deals struck provide worse terms than available to the EU. We were told the fishing industry and agriculture would flourish. That’s not what fisherman and farmers are saying. All those funds from the EU to support the regions have dried up and not been replaced. Even worse what funding does come out of Central Government seems to favour the South East (or Tory constituencies). We were told we would have more sovereignty. All that seems to mean is that we have a new sovereign “long to reign over us” who lives in 30 homes during a housing crisis and doesn’t pay tax whilst the rest of us pay more. We have members of the House of Lords and people who are Members of the British Empire getting cosy government contracts. We were told there would be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside. We would hold all the cards. It hasn’t happened, has it? We aren`t angry, you`re obsessed lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted December 28, 2023 Author #5 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, OverSword said: Are there stats to back that up or is this simply inflammatory fiction written by a bitter remoaner? All polls from the day after the referendum show that the consensus opinion is that it was a mistake (even Nigel Farage, Mr Brexit himself, has said it has failed). The main flaw was in the referendum itself- while "Remain" was clear (nothing changes), "Leave" was never defined- so people could imagine the outcome they wanted- fishermen thought they would get larger fishing grounds, farmers bigger markets and less red-tape, workers thought less competition would mean they could demand higher wages, almost everyone thought it would reduce immigration, and some believed the promises of more money for public services when we stopped paying EU fees -every one of these things has been confounded as the opposite has resulted and our economy is smaller than it would have been had we not had the referendum. That doesn't mean that all the people who regret Brexit want to rejoin- the conditions would be less favourable, and no one wants all the emotional pain all over again. Unfortunately, Brexit as an issue won't go away- we (the UK) haven't implemented our side of the agreement yet (import controls and other aspects Boris Johnson signed us up to), so we have a lot more economic pain to suffer, plus we now have increased permanent immigrants instead of the temporary ones we could ask to leave under Freedom of Movement). It is a lesson the US can learn from- just because the "people" demand something, it does not mean that it is right to do it. The "people" are fickle, and when it turns out that what they demanded turns out to be a pig-in-a-poke, they will do a U-turn. Our PM, David Cameron, allowed a referendum in 2016 confident that the population would vote Remain. There has been no legal mechanism to stop the slide into disaster for us, and the US may find itself in a similar slide to disaster if Trump is allowed to become POTUS. Edited December 28, 2023 by pellinore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #6 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, pellinore said: The main flaw was in the referendum itself- while "Remain" was clear (nothing changes), "Leave" was never defined You don't half come out with some crap pellinore. 'Brexit' is British exit from the European Union. In legal terms it is withdrawal from 'The Treaty of Rome', 'The Maastricht Treaty', 'The Lisbon Treaty' and any other EU Treaty that successive traitorous UK Governments have signed the UK up to without the consent of the British people whilst we were members. The legal position we wish to be in after Brexit should be the same legal position we would be in today if only we'd had the wisdom to not join the EEC in 1973. I really cannot understand why this is so difficult for you EU-loving Stockholm Syndrome victims to grasp. And no, Remain was not clear at all (nothing changes), because that implies that the EU of 2016 will stay like the EU of 2016 forever. Which we both know it won't. You only have to look at how the EEC (the EU's predecessor) has morphed, through stealth and without our consent by the way, into the present political monstrosity that it is today to see that it isn't going to stay the same way forever. By your logic the people that voted Remain in the 1975 referendum on EEC membership voted for nothing to change, and look at how wrong they were. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted December 29, 2023 #7 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, pellinore said: polls Ah. Polls. Right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted December 29, 2023 #8 Share Posted December 29, 2023 3 hours ago, pellinore said: All polls from the day after the referendum show that the consensus opinion is that it was a mistake (even Nigel Farage, Mr Brexit himself, has said it has failed). The main flaw was in the referendum itself- while "Remain" was clear (nothing changes), "Leave" was never defined- so people could imagine the outcome they wanted- fishermen thought they would get larger fishing grounds, farmers bigger markets and less red-tape, workers thought less competition would mean they could demand higher wages, almost everyone thought it would reduce immigration, and some believed the promises of more money for public services when we stopped paying EU fees -every one of these things has been confounded as the opposite has resulted and our economy is smaller than it would have been had we not had the referendum. That doesn't mean that all the people who regret Brexit want to rejoin- the conditions would be less favourable, and no one wants all the emotional pain all over again. Unfortunately, Brexit as an issue won't go away- we (the UK) haven't implemented our side of the agreement yet (import controls and other aspects Boris Johnson signed us up to), so we have a lot more economic pain to suffer, plus we now have increased permanent immigrants instead of the temporary ones we could ask to leave under Freedom of Movement). It is a lesson the US can learn from- just because the "people" demand something, it does not mean that it is right to do it. The "people" are fickle, and when it turns out that what they demanded turns out to be a pig-in-a-poke, they will do a U-turn. Our PM, David Cameron, allowed a referendum in 2016 confident that the population would vote Remain. There has been no legal mechanism to stop the slide into disaster for us, and the US may find itself in a similar slide to disaster if Trump is allowed to become POTUS. You make me laugh. We are almost on the verge of 2024 and you are still going with your anti-Brexit crusade. Its funny. How did your mind not explode into some kind of interstellar Brexitnova when the results came in? Have a peek at Nostradamus for 2024, 2027, and 2029 for some entertainment. In 2024 King Charles gets sacked (you`ll like that one), in 2027 the dead rise up out of their graves (zombies!), and in 2029 what the hell does England do. Well we won`t ever be joining the EU after that. Have a read, its not even cryptic, it clearly states what England does in 2029. We go carve out a new empire. I think that will be after the inbound labour government fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #9 Share Posted December 29, 2023 @pellinore While everything you say here is true, I do have to wonder why you persist with this. The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong, or that their personal vision of Brexit isn't the carved in stone vision shared by every person who voted leave (even when actively contradicting each other). They had their vote, got their Brexit and the vast majority of them are low-income, low-education workers who will suffer most as a result. If they want to throw themselves off a cliff, I'm past trying to stop them. Their government is crumbling by the day and next year's election will be a crushing defeat for them that they won't recover from for a decade or more. Just wait a few more months and enjoy their impotent rage. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #10 Share Posted December 29, 2023 15 minutes ago, Setton said: The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong Why am I "wrong" to want to get out of a wannabe federal European Superstate? It may come as a bit of a shock to you but not everyone is like you and wants to see their country consumed into one large lump of European "states" ultimately answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels. 👇👇👇👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #11 Share Posted December 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said: Why am I "wrong" to want to get out of a wannabe federal European Superstate? It may come as a bit of a shock to you but not everyone is like you and wants to see their country consumed into one large lump of European "states" ultimately answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels. 👇👇👇👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/ Thank you for demonstrating my point so eloquently. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #12 Share Posted December 29, 2023 57 minutes ago, Setton said: Thank you for demonstrating my point so eloquently. How have I demonstrated your "point", when all I've asked you is why am I "wrong" to want to get out of a wannabe federal European Superstate? There are 170 or so non-EU countries on the rest of the planet, many of whom seem to be able to manage perfectly fine without having to be politically shackled to their neighbours, so are they all "wrong" as well then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted December 29, 2023 Author #13 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Setton said: @pellinore While everything you say here is true, I do have to wonder why you persist with this. The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong, or that their personal vision of Brexit isn't the carved in stone vision shared by every person who voted leave (even when actively contradicting each other). They had their vote, got their Brexit and the vast majority of them are low-income, low-education workers who will suffer most as a result. If they want to throw themselves off a cliff, I'm past trying to stop them. Their government is crumbling by the day and next year's election will be a crushing defeat for them that they won't recover from for a decade or more. Just wait a few more months and enjoy their impotent rage. Partly it is despair, but partly a warning. Brexit has only just started, we have import controls, biometric checks, problems with the NIP, decreased industrial and agricultural productivity, and increased divergence to enjoy yet. It is like watching your library being torched by people who can't read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #14 Share Posted December 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said: How have I demonstrated your "point", when all I've asked you is why am I "wrong" to want to get out of a wannabe federal European Superstate? Don't worry about it. Obviously a bit beyond you... How's post-brexit life for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #15 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Setton said: Don't worry about it. Obviously a bit beyond you... How's post-brexit life for you? Why not answer the question? You're the one claiming that we were "wrong" to vote to Leave the EU, so why can't you tell me why I was "wrong"? Or it is just that anyone that happens to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken, and who just happens to have voted opposite to you in a 2-choice vote is obviously "wrong" by default. As far as you're concerned there's no explanation needed, they're just "wrong", and that's the end of it? Edited December 29, 2023 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #16 Share Posted December 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said: Why not answer the question? You're the one claiming that we were "wrong" to vote to Leave the EU, so why can't you tell me why I was "wrong"? Or it is just that anyone that happens to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken, and who just happens to have voted opposite to you in a 2-choice vote is obviously "wrong" by default. As far as you're concerned there's no explanation needed, they're just "wrong", and that's the end of it? Nope, you just haven't comprehended what I actually posted in your desperation to defend yourself from an imagined slight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #17 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Setton said: Nope, you just haven't comprehended what I actually posted in your desperation to defend yourself from an imagined slight. I have comprehended what you actually posted, you arrogantly posted that, quote: "The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong", how can it be comprehended any other way than you arrogantly "think" that Leave voters (or the average "Quitter" as you so graciously referred to us as being) were "wrong" to vote to Leave the EU? It cannot possibly be comprehended any other way. So go on, why do you arrogantly "think" that I was "wrong" to want to get out of the EU then? Edited December 29, 2023 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #18 Share Posted December 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said: I have comprehended what you actually posted, you arrogantly posted that, quote: "The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong", how can it be comprehended any other way than you arrogantly "think" that Leave voters (or the average "Quitter" as you so graciously referred to us as being) were "wrong" to vote to Leave the EU? It cannot possibly be comprehended any other way. So go on, why do you arrogantly "think" that I was "wrong" to want to get out of the EU then? The various leave campaigns promised all sorts of benefits of Brexit, which Quitters parotted, that have not come to pass (therefore, wrong). But when confronted with this fact, the average Quitter, such as yourself, refuses to admit these promises were made and pretends people only wanted the headline of getting out of the EU. Get it yet? As for the Quitter label, you lot have been calling anyone who disagrees with you Remoaners for years. Enjoy your own medicine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #19 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Setton said: The various leave campaigns promised all sorts of benefits of Brexit, which Quitters parotted, that have not come to pass (therefore, wrong). Such as? The various Remain campaigns promised all sorts of negatives of Brexit, which Remoaners parotted, that have not come to pass either (therefore, wrong), such as Osborne's Emergency Budget and the immediate and prolonged recession that was supposed to happen just for merely voting to Leave the EU. But when confronted with this fact, the average Remoaner, such as yourself, refuses to admit these promises were made and pretends people only wanted the headline of remaining in the EU. Get it yet? 👇👇👇👇 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564 Edited December 29, 2023 by Destination Unknown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #20 Share Posted December 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said: Such as? Proving my point again... Quote The various Remain campaigns promised all sorts of negatives of Brexit, which Remoaners parotted, that have not come to pass either (therefore, wrong), such as Osborne's Emergency Budget and the immediate and prolonged recession that was supposed to happen just for merely voting to Leave the EU. But when confronted with this fact, the average Remoaner, such as yourself, refuses to admit these promises were made and pretends people only wanted the headline of remaining in the EU. Get it yet? 👇👇👇👇 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564 Difference is I have no problem admitting those things didn't happen. How's the NHS on its extra 350 million a week? How are migration numbers? Where is the US trade deal? Or all the other ones? Why is there a trade barrier between Britain and NI? Careful you don't have an original thought there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #21 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Setton said: How's the NHS on its extra 350 million a week? If you actually bothered to do some very simple research, you'd discover that in actual fact the NHS budget has increased by over £40 billion per year since 2016. That's more than on the big red bus you Remoaners keep on screeching about, so before you insult others, it's wise to just quickly check your facts, because you make it realy easy for me to discredit you as a fool. 👇👇👇👇 https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget But speaking of the NHS, think on this: . Major introduced PFIs. . Blair and Brown increased their use, massively burdening the NHS with billions of debt and payments before any treatment can be paid for. . Cameron and Osborne sold the trusts to private companies, most now owned by Richard Branson. . All these people have one thing in common. . They are ALL pro-EU. 👇👇👇👇 https://metro.co.uk/2016/01/14/privatisation-of-nhs-continues-as-hospital-contract-awarded-to-richard-branson-5622396/ 35 minutes ago, Setton said: Where is the US trade deal? But you Remoaners didn't want a US trade deal, you know, because of da chIorinated chicken and da hormone injected beef. So which is it, because you can't have it both ways? 🤔 Careful you don't have an original thought there! And where's your beloved EU's trade deal with the USA? 🤔 35 minutes ago, Setton said: Or all the other ones? Here you go. Enjoy. 👇👇👇👇 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-in-effect 35 minutes ago, Setton said: Why is there a trade barrier between Britain and NI? Because your beloved EU thought it would be a great idea to weaponise the Irish border in order to punish the UK for our democratic vote, and our spineless politicians went along with it, instead of telling the EU to get stuffed. Barmier and that complete and utter EU federalist maniac Verhoffhishead were even filmed discussing between themselves their odious intentions in behind the scenes footage filmed during the Brexit negotiations with the UK in the BBC documentary 'Brexit: Behind Closed Doors', because in their totally irrational minds, a threat to peace on the island of Ireland should be the price the UK "pays" for even daring to leave their precious little club. 👇👇👇👇 https://youtu.be/L0iIY_R65Qg?si=-_syGZTvXSh3f4bs Edited December 29, 2023 by Destination Unknown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted December 29, 2023 #22 Share Posted December 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Setton said: @pellinore While everything you say here is true, I do have to wonder why you persist with this. The average Quitter, as we can see here, will never admit to being wrong, or that their personal vision of Brexit isn't the carved in stone vision shared by every person who voted leave (even when actively contradicting each other). They had their vote, got their Brexit and the vast majority of them are low-income, low-education workers who will suffer most as a result. If they want to throw themselves off a cliff, I'm past trying to stop them. Their government is crumbling by the day and next year's election will be a crushing defeat for them that they won't recover from for a decade or more. Just wait a few more months and enjoy their impotent rage. I agree, Setton, but would urge Pellinore to continue to post and not be discouraged by people who are incapable of recognising the plain truth before their very eyes. These diehard Leavers cannot defend Brexit or explain its non-existent benefits, preferring to ignore the real damage it has done, and continues to do, to the UK and characterising Remainers' statements of fact as 'crap' (#7). Unable to promote the positives of Brexit, their heads are sozzled in a stew of distortions, half-truths, and misrepresentation about the EU. Their type needs to see reds under the bed and they choose, like Don Quixote, the Knight of La Mancha, to tilt at windmills perversely imagining them to be enemy giants. The EU is a 'wannabe federal superstate' run by a 'politburo' (#12). Its members are 'vassals' being dictated to by some oppressive entity riding roughshod over their sovereignty, illegitimately dominating them and forcing them without due process to accept arbitrary diktats, like them or not. Their mindsets are impenetrable to reason and they turn everything you say back against you and use it as a peg on which to hang their obdurate diatribe and harangue you with it. I won't waste my time and mental energy engaging with them, unless I have nothing else to do. Their blinkered nonsense would be funny if its consequences were not so serious. The whole Brexit debacle has been a spectacular Public-Schoolboy wheeze, an exercise in ignorant hubris by self-serving and incompetent political donkeys. They even had a Brexit Opportunities Minister in the form of Lord Snooty, Rees-Mogg, and he came up with absolutely nothing. These people are so stupid they thought they could do away with the metric system and bring back Imperial measures! By virtually every metric by which one can measure the effects of Brexit, the UK has disimproved. In some shape or form, the UK will rejoin the Single Market and/or the Customs Union sometime in the future because it will have to. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted December 29, 2023 #23 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Time is on the side of the Quitters. Things are already nothing like the forecasts made with serious faces by remainers and this is what stimulates the too late defense of remainers original arguments. Not to look misguided in hindsight and keep a morsel of intellectual credibility. Although they do their best, rushing down to Dover on a bank holiday and claiming Brexit has brought the country to a standstill. I have to say I am a long way from angry, leaving the single market and customs union in accordance with the vote, has given me some hope for the democratic process in the UK. Although I have to say that some of the angst caused within the ranks of remainers is probably due to the fact it was mostly achieved by a Tory government. I think had Brexit been facilitated by a Corbyn government the near hysterical objections in some quarters would be significantly less. 🤐 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted December 29, 2023 #24 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Ozymandias said: I agree, Setton, but would urge Pellinore to continue to post and not be discouraged by people who are incapable of recognising the plain truth before their very eyes. These diehard Leavers cannot defend Brexit or explain its non-existent benefits, preferring to ignore the real damage it has done, and continues to do, to the UK and characterising Remainers' statements of fact as 'crap' (#7). Unable to promote the positives of Brexit, their heads are sozzled in a stew of distortions, half-truths, and misrepresentation about the EU. Their type needs to see reds under the bed and they choose, like Don Quixote, the Knight of La Mancha, to tilt at windmills perversely imagining them to be enemy giants. The EU is a 'wannabe federal superstate' run by a 'politburo' (#12). Its members are 'vassals' being dictated to by some oppressive entity riding roughshod over their sovereignty, illegitimately dominating them and forcing them without due process to accept arbitrary diktats, like them or not. Their mindsets are impenetrable to reason and they turn everything you say back against you and use it as a peg on which to hang their obdurate diatribe and harangue you with it. I won't waste my time and mental energy engaging with them, unless I have nothing else to do. Their blinkered nonsense would be funny if its consequences were not so serious. The whole Brexit debacle has been a spectacular Public-Schoolboy wheeze, an exercise in ignorant hubris by self-serving and incompetent political donkeys. They even had a Brexit Opportunities Minister in the form of Lord Snooty, Rees-Mogg, and he came up with absolutely nothing. These people are so stupid they thought they could do away with the metric system and bring back Imperial measures! By virtually every metric by which one can measure the effects of Brexit, the UK has disimproved. In some shape or form, the UK will rejoin the Single Market and/or the Customs Union sometime in the future because it will have to. You still don't get it do you Ozy? It's your insistence that you arrogantly "think" you know what's better for us, because you arrogantly "think" we're all "stupid" just because we happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken. Alright, let's do it your way then. Considering you rabid europhiles obviously arrogantly "think" that you are far more intelligent than us Leave voters, (which, by the way, is why Remain lost the vote in the first place, your own sheer arrogance that you obviously "think" that you're better than the rest of us) why, after over 7 years of us asking our obviously far more intellectual superiors like you where the future of the EU is heading, not one of you has ever been able to tell us? 🤔 So go on, when I look at the EU in another, 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years time, what sort of EU will I actually be looking at then, because one thing is definitely certain, it won't look anything like the EU of today, just like the EU of today is totally unrecognisable to the EEC the UK joined in 1973. So instead of the usual vague Remoaner blanket answer of: "The EU can only become what its members agree it can become" nonsense, what will a future EU even look like then, because this so-called "unintelligent thicky Leave voter with a lower cognitive ability" has said all along that the EU is heading for a federalist European Superstate where we would ultimately be answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels, and it seems that former Italian Prime Minister and former President of the European Central Bank (Super) Mario Draghi actually agrees with me, so is he also an "unintelligent thicky with a lower cognitive ability as well then"? If we were members of a loose version of the Soviet Union before it even became the Soviet Union, and we voted to Leave it before it did actually become the Soviet Union, would that have been such a bad thing? 🤔👇👇👇👇 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/ Edited December 29, 2023 by Destination Unknown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted December 29, 2023 #25 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Destination Unknown said: which, by the way, is why Remain lost the vote in the first place, your own sheer arrogance that you obviously "think" that you're better than the rest of us Wait, did remain lose because voters didn't like remainers arrogance or because they wanted to leave to "Federal European Superstate Galactic Empire" (or whatever you called it)? Do you run these things by yourself before posting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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