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The Bible verse proving anti-LGBTQ Methodists have not truly read the Bible


Grim Reaper 6

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But what makes this matter so devilish for modern Methodism is not the utter paucity of any biblical material related to this theme, but rather the very clear, centrally admonished teaching otherwise. Take Galatians 3:28, often a favorite verse for conservatives. Paul writes: “In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female." Martin Luther called Galatians “the Magna Carta of Christian liberty.” And in it, Paul very clearly sets aside religious, economic and sexual distinctions, on the power of the unity of faith, of baptism and the Gospel of Christ. “There is no male and female,” but rather the unity of faith, hope and love in the person of Christ, crucified and risen.

The Bible verse proving anti-LGBTQ Methodists have not truly read the Bible (msn.com)

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I agree that those who use the current trans nonsense to hate these human beings do not have a Christian outlook.  Hating on ANYONE is not a Christian outlook but rejecting a lifestyle choice that clearly comes from a place of political hate and aggression isn't the same thing.  IOW, if "trans" humans have been around forever, why are we only now being inundated with anger and politicization of the phenomenon?  The bottom line is that this is a political movement that is being used to drive more wedges into our nation's people.  Whatever happened to simple respect for the life choices (including sexuality) of others so long as they refrained from forcing the issue on their neighbors?

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27 minutes ago, and-then said:

I agree that those who use the current trans nonsense to hate these human beings do not have a Christian outlook.  Hating on ANYONE is not a Christian outlook but rejecting a lifestyle choice that clearly comes from a place of political hate and aggression isn't the same thing.  IOW, if "trans" humans have been around forever, why are we only now being inundated with anger and politicization of the phenomenon?  The bottom line is that this is a political movement that is being used to drive more wedges into our nation's people.  Whatever happened to simple respect for the life choices (including sexuality) of others so long as they refrained from forcing the issue on their neighbors?

I agree with most everything you have said in your post and especially the following quote: ""The bottom line is that this is a political movement that is being used to drive more wedges into our nation's people."" The political movement trying to disassociate and take away the rights of the LGBTQ community is the Religious and Conservative right. NO, other groups of people in America have done more to treat Transsexual people like second citizens, and to remove their fundamental human rights. Conservative Republican Governors have passed more laws in the last 6 years concerning LGBTQ people than were passed in the last 20. Now, you can deny it, but it's all public record so denying it would only make you look bad!!!!!!:yes:

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2 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Conservative Republican Governors have passed more laws in the last 6 years concerning LGBTQ people than were passed in the last 20. Now, you can deny it, but it's all public record so denying it would only make you look bad!!!!!!:yes:

Source then, please.

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It says in the spirit there is neither male nor female, not in the physical.  He made Adam and Eve, male and female.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Source then, please.

Here you go, 100 laws have been passed limiting the rights of LGBTQ people in the last 5 years and HALF OF THESE LAWS WERE PASSED IN 2023!!!!!!!:yes:

Over 100 Anti-LGBTQ+ Laws Passed In The Last Five Years — Half Of Them This Year: Over 100 Anti-LGBTQ+ Laws Passed In The Last Five Years — Half Of Them This Year | FiveThirtyEight

From drag bans to sports restrictions, 75 anti-LGBTQ bills have become law in 2023: 75 anti-LGBTQ bills have become law in 2023 (nbcnews.com)

Thanks for asking it makes my day!!!!!!!!:lol:

Edited by Grim Reaper 6
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3 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Here you go, 100 laws have been passed limiting the rights of LGBTQ people in the last 5 years and HALF OF THESE LAWS WERE PASSED IN 2023!!!!!!!:yes:

Over 100 Anti-LGBTQ+ Laws Passed In The Last Five Years — Half Of Them This Year: Over 100 Anti-LGBTQ+ Laws Passed In The Last Five Years — Half Of Them This Year | FiveThirtyEight

Thanks for asking it makes my day!!!!!!!!:lol:

They were pretty vague on most of the specifics and came nowhere near close to mentioning "100's of laws". Most of the ones in the article were to preserve women's rights and not to teach very young children about variations of sexual orientation while in school, as in parental rights.

Not impressed. Pretty much what I expected.

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4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

They were pretty vague on most of the specifics and came nowhere near close to mentioning "100's of laws". Most of the ones in the article were to preserve women's rights and not to teach very young children about variations of sexual orientation while in school, as in parental rights.

Not impressed. Pretty much what I expected.

Sincerely I don't care if your impressed or not my comments that you quoted were not designed to impress anyone I was only making a valid point. What I said was accurate and to the point if you want more information do a web search there is literally a ton of out there. At no time in the last 20 years have these kind of actions been taken against the LGBTQ community as whole. These attacks are carried out by the Religious Right, Republican Governor's and Republican Mayors. These are the same people who want to dictate what books can be in libraries Nationwide. It all comes to racism and bigotry and it's very sad! Now, you may support it, I don't know, but I certainly don't, and I never will, I don't roll that way!!!!!!:yes:

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29 minutes ago, Michelle said:

They were pretty vague on most of the specifics and came nowhere near close to mentioning "100's of laws". Most of the ones in the article were to preserve women's rights and not to teach very young children about variations of sexual orientation while in school, as in parental rights.

Not impressed. Pretty much what I expected.

Here is the laws in detail broken down by state.😁

Roundup of Anti-LGBTQ+ Legislation Advancing In States Across the Country:  https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/roundup-of-anti-lgbtq-legislation-advancing-in-states-across-the-country

Mapping Attacks on LGBTQ Rights in U.S. State Legislatures:  https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights

SNAPSHOT: LGBTQ EQUALITY BY STATE: https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps

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8 hours ago, Michelle said:

They were pretty vague on most of the specifics and came nowhere near close to mentioning "100's of laws". Most of the ones in the article were to preserve women's rights and not to teach very young children about variations of sexual orientation while in school, as in parental rights.

Not impressed. Pretty much what I expected.

There are also several Republicans that say if a woman is raped or pregnant by incest must keep the baby! That was Rep Dewine,by the way.

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16 minutes ago, superman73 said:

There are also several Republicans that say if a woman is raped or pregnant by incest must keep the baby! That was Rep Dewine,by the way.

Rick Santorum was another one who said that.

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12 hours ago, superman73 said:

There are also several Republicans that say if a woman is raped or pregnant by incest must keep the baby! That was Rep Dewine,by the way.

If a woman is raped and keeps the child the rapist also has parental rights. I'm not going to waste my time looking to see how that law got passed and who voted for it because it doesn't matter now that it already has. But, women still have to fight for our rights, even more so now, which has been proved in this thread. Women should have autonomy over their bodies and who they allow to see them in various stages of undress such as in a locker room. If a gym goes coed locker rooms they should make that clear before you sign up. And I don't think it's appropriate to allow anyone who decides they want to be a girl that day in the girl's locker room and bathrooms in schools. Make accommodations for them elsewhere. I do know that Democrats are the ones pushing for that.

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22 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Sincerely I don't care if your impressed or not my comments that you quoted were not designed to impress anyone I was only making a valid point. What I said was accurate and to the point if you want more information do a web search there is literally a ton of out there. At no time in the last 20 years have these kind of actions been taken against the LGBTQ community as whole. These attacks are carried out by the Religious Right, Republican Governor's and Republican Mayors. These are the same people who want to dictate what books can be in libraries Nationwide. It all comes to racism and bigotry and it's very sad! Now, you may support it, I don't know, but I certainly don't, and I never will, I don't roll that way!!!!!!:yes:

What a bunch of political correctness speak.  Trying to use the Bible to justify LGBT+?  What obvious pandering.  The Bible is the last place you should should go to defend that movement.  Shame on you for not knowing the Bible yourself before you comment about it.

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57 minutes ago, Michelle said:

If a woman is raped and keeps the child the rapist also has parental rights. I'm not going to waste my time looking to see how that law got passed and who voted for it because it doesn't matter now that it already has. But, women still have to fight for our rights, even more so now, which has been proved in this thread. Women should have autonomy over their bodies and who they allow to see them in various stages of undress such as in a locker room. If a gym goes coed locker rooms they should make that clear before you sign up. And I don't think it's appropriate to allow anyone who decides they want to be a girl that day in the girl's locker room and bathrooms in schools. Make accommodations for them elsewhere. I do know that Democrats are the ones pushing for that.

The normal world is off the rails on the crazy train, and we’re all gonna die.

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The bible states that homosexuals should be killed, as should people who have sex with animals.  FWIW.

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Serial killers are a part of the population, but the Bible doesn’t address those men and women.  That sin was too deep for the Bible.  They only went to murder.  There are several ways to deal with murderers according to the Bible, but I won’t give away the spoiler.  You can look that one up for yourself if you are interested.

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16 minutes ago, Guyver said:

What a bunch of political correctness speak.  Trying to use the Bible to justify LGBT+?  What obvious pandering.  The Bible is the last place you should should go to defend that movement.  Shame on you for not knowing the Bible yourself before you comment about it.

You’re welcome to your opinion I started this thread so that people could have a discussion. I never said I agreed that the Bible says this life style is ok. My comments in this were directed at how the Republican Party is violating the civil liberties of the LBGTQ community if that hurts your feelings so be. Please show where I even mentioned the Bible?

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1 minute ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

You’re welcome to your opinion I started this thread so that people could have a discussion. I never said I agreed that the Bible says this life style is ok. My comments in this were directed at how the Republican Party is violating the civil liberties of the LBGTQ community if that hurts your feelings so be. Please show where I even mentioned the Bible?

You mentioned it in you opening post where you insinuated that the Bible supports the LGBT alphabet soup of political correctness whatever it is by bringing in a Bible verse that says there is neither male nor female in the eyes of God, which is correct according to the Bible, with one slightly little minor correction you may wish to consider.  It’s when you’re dead.  When you are dead, God no longer cares if you are male or female.  That’s the part you did not understand.  Obviously.

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Just now, Guyver said:

You mentioned it in you opening post where you insinuated that the Bible supports the LGBT alphabet soup of political correctness whatever it is by bringing in a Bible verse that says there is neither male nor female in the eyes of God, which is correct according to the Bible, with one slightly little minor correction you may wish to consider.  It’s when you’re dead.  When you are dead, God no longer cares if you are male or female.  That’s the part you did not understand.  Obviously.

I did not mention anything all of that information came from the article in the OP I only cut and pasted. But thanks for confirming one thing, you didn’t read the article before you commented, maybe you should go back and read it. 

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5 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

You’re welcome to your opinion I started this thread so that people could have a discussion. I never said I agreed that the Bible says this life style is ok. My comments in this were directed at how the Republican Party is violating the civil liberties of the LBGTQ community if that hurts your feelings so be. Please show where I even mentioned the Bible?

But yes, of course we are all welcomed to our own opinions and this is just mine.  But at the same time, if you would take the time to listen instead of talk too much, you might find that every swinging Richard up in here speaks that way when they actually know what the eff they are talking about. So, it’s a great indicator to check someone out.  They either know what the hell they are talking about, they are bluffing, or they don’t know sh!t from shinola.

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18 minutes ago, Guyver said:

But yes, of course we are all welcomed to our own opinions and this is just mine.  But at the same time, if you would take the time to listen instead of talk too much, you might find that every swinging Richard up in here speaks that way when they actually know what the eff they are talking about. So, it’s a great indicator to check someone out.  They either know what the hell they are talking about, they are bluffing, or they don’t know sh!t from shinola.

I think you’re a little too emotionally involved, relax a little bit. 

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2 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I think you’re a little too emotionally involved, relax a little bit. 

Peace be with you my brother.  Good night.

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10 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Peace be with you my brother.  Good night.

The same to you.

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Hey, Grim

This a tricky topic for the SR&B section, more like something that would fit in the American politics death cage forum.

The article is straightforward enough: American Methodists are undergoing a planned schism, largely over modernism v. traditionalism, which cashes out as what heteronormative people are supposed to do about LGBQT2SNB+ people. The author (a pastor) does a familiar thing: he gives a sermon based on a chosen "proof text" (no, @Guyver, not Jesus on how we will all rise like angels, but) Galatians 3:28, how here and now in Christ there are no status distinctions among people, including no male and no female.

Naturally, those who disagree with his reading of the verse have not "truly" read the Bible. Ooookay.

One thing is for sure, the verse has nothing to do with contemporary American politics; Paul didn't even know there was an America and didn't expect that there would be still be people living almost two thousand years after he wrote. Paul is not denying that there are distinctions to be made among classes of people (he wrote an entire letter, Philemon, to a slave owner seeking the rent-free use of a slave; Paul's entire ministry was based on Jesus putting him in charge of "Greeks" while Peter led the Jews); he means only that salvation is available to everyone who accepts Jesus's salvific offer.

I suspect Methodists on both sides of the schism see what the Reverend is doing there: seizing on the phrase "no male and no female" as if Paul were saying that there is no biological foundation to sex differences, that it's all gender, and gender is a social convention or a personal circumstance (but be careful not to say personal choice). No, Paul wouldn't know what the pastor is talking about.

I also suspect Methodists generally have read quite a bit of the Bible (including the death penalty for male homosexuality, provided of course that there are two witnesses who will testify ...). Some have also read Antony Flew, and know all about the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Conclude: It is not just conservative Republicans who can quote scripture for their own purposes. The Methodists have been torn apart, the United States is getting closer to rupture all the time. Is this really necessary and inevitable? Is it really helpful to "prove" that God is on your side when both sides can "prove" it?

We're screwed.

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3 hours ago, eight bits said:

One thing is for sure, the verse has nothing to do with contemporary American politics; Paul didn't even know there was an America and didn't expect that there would be still be people living almost two thousand years after he wrote.

Sure, but neither did the author of Leviticus (knowing about America I mean, not sure what their position was on the latter)

3 hours ago, eight bits said:

Is it really helpful to "prove" that God is on your side when both sides can "prove" it?

I'm not sure the article at least is really about 'proving', it does mention that there are (vanishingly few) verses that may refer to same-sex relationships also immediately before the Galatians paragraph.  The Galatians line is curious if the Bible is supposedly so definite as some believe about this, so 'the Bible is unclear' would be an accomplishment without the goal of 'proving'.  Difficult for a specific church though since they are probably forced to specify a position on it for denomination/membership purposes.

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