Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Italian foreign minister calls for formation of EU army


Unusual Tournament

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

You just don't stop do you pellinore?

The only traitors are the ones that are hell-bent on selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate where we would ultimately be answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels. That would be YOU wouldn't it pellinore. 🤔

As for farming and fishing, remove your UK-hating EU-loving blinkers for once in your life and take a good long look at what's really going on in your beloved EU, where Dutch farmers have been protesting against their Government's plans to buy up and close down 3,000 farms in order to comply with the EU's rules on reducing nitrogen emissions. The perfect example of creeping EU overreach. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.tvpworld.com/64801898/netherlands-to-buy-up-and-close-down-3000-farms-to-comply-with-eu-rules

 

And where Irish farmers have been protesting against their Government's plans to cull 200,000 cows, again, in order to comply with your beloved EU's emissions standards. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.beefcentral.com/news/irish-farmers-protest-plans-to-cull-200000-cows-elon-musk-weighs-in/

 

And where German farmers have today blocked roads with tractors in a nationwide protest over agriculture policies. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-farmers-protest-causes-nationwide-disruption/live-67913441

 

Whilst in the UK, from the website 'Fishing News', 17th January 2023: "Brixham fishmarket saw a record-breaking £60.8m worth of fish auctioned during 2022. The amount smashes its previous record of £43.6m, set in 2021, and includes a first-ever £2m week for the market, recorded in September."

https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/brixham-smashes-record-with-60m-sales/#:~:text=Brixham fishmarket saw a record,the market%2C recorded in September.

 

Meanwhile, in your beloved EU. From the website 'Fishing Daily', July 28th 2022: "Decommissioning scheme is another tragedy for Irish fishing"

Quote: "The European Commission has today approved an €80 million decommissioning scheme to reduce the size of the Irish fishing fleet by another 60 vessels. This will take the size of the offshore fleet over 18 metres to about one third of what it was in 2006 (280 down to 100).

Following the announcement, Sinn Fein Spokesperson on Fisheries, Padraig Mac Lochlainn said, quote:

"Today's announcement is another tragic blow to our fishing and coastal communities. The intentional and managed collapse of our fishing industry is truly shocking."

https://thefishingdaily.com/latest-news/decommissioning-scheme-is-another-tragedy-for-irish-fishing-mac-lochlainn/

 

I'm now wondering if you are really Western European (although you sound like a Tufton Street shill, so you might be). I'm wondering if you have Russian connections, you seem hell-bent on destroying Western Europe, which we patriotic Brits are very proud to be part of.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I'm now wondering if you are really Western European (although you sound like a Tufton Street shill, so you might be). I'm wondering if you have Russian connections, you seem hell-bent on destroying Western Europe, which we patriotic Brits are very proud to be part of.

I'm not the one hell-bent on selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate where we would ultimately be answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels pellinore, YOU are. Now grow the hell up and accept that your beloved EU isn't the be all and end all, it's a crumbling political union folly that nobody in the UK ever even voted to join in the first place, but one that had been imposed on us through stealth without our consent.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I'm now wondering if you are really Western European (although you sound like a Tufton Street shill, so you might be). I'm wondering if you have Russian connections, you seem hell-bent on destroying Western Europe, which we patriotic Brits are very proud to be part of.

There is nothing patriotic about you haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

There is nothing patriotic about you haha.

I'm a damned sight more patriotic than Farage, Tice, and @Destination Unknown who is trying to undermine the UK.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I'm a damned sight more patriotic than Farage, Tice, and @Destination Unknown who is trying to undermine the UK.

How am I trying to undermine the UK pellinore?

I'm not the one that's hell-bent on selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate am I, YOU are, so if anyone is trying to undermine the UK, it's YOU, because unlike YOU, I don't actually want to see my country being slowly consumed into one large lump of European "states" where we would ultimately be answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

Edited by Destination Unknown
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Because NATO has been politicised by America and republicans are not as keen as continuing this relationship. Who can blame Paris and Berlin for not wanting to come under Russian influence 

I look forward to this becoming a reality.  We can finally stop carrying the EU's defense costs.  One thing they should keep in mind though, it took the militaries of EU countries about 6 months to bring down Gaddafi in Libya.  The US served only as an intel and logistics partner.  Had our forces taken on the lead role it would have been done in DAYS.   That means the EU is going to have to get VERY serious about investing in the military of their countries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, and-then said:

I look forward to this becoming a reality.  We can finally stop carrying the EU's defense costs.  One thing they should keep in mind though, it took the militaries of EU countries about 6 months to bring down Gaddafi in Libya.  The US served only as an intel and logistics partner.  Had our forces taken on the lead role it would have been done in DAYS.   That means the EU is going to have to get VERY serious about investing in the military of their countries.

Well here’s the thing. If NATO dies then Europe can make any trade and defence deals it likes with Russia, China and any other recalcitrant country it wants. I wonder how that’s gonna sit with any future American president when he can’t get a trade or defence deal because America has taken its bat and ball and gone home. 
 

No defence deals with Europe will free up tons of money for R&D and procurement. NATO benefits America way more than Europe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its the right of Europe to have a EU Super State if it wishes but we need to make sure it doesn`t become too powerful.

It has too many countries in it at the moment and needs to loose a few powerful ones so that if the Prussians start back up we can deal with them. I propose we lure out the French and Italians. We should also insert our inspectors into the EU to make sure none of the rest attempt to get a nuclear deterrent of their own.

We dont want to destroy our relationship with Russia, we might need them to help bring down a 4th Reich.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

How am I trying to undermine the UK pellinore?

I'm not the one that's hell-bent on selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate am I, YOU are, so if anyone is trying to undermine the UK, it's YOU, because unlike YOU, I don't actually want to see my country being slowly consumed into one large lump of European "states" where we would ultimately be answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/mario-draghi-european-union-single-megastate-italy/

You may be worried about the EU becoming a superstate and the UK becoming part of it, but you realise you are in a tiny, tiny minority?

When people voted for Brexit, your argument wasn't used at all- people were told specifically that if they voted Leave, food and clothes would be cheaper, the UK could strike lucrative trade deals all around the world, fishermen and farmers would prosper, the NHS would get an extra £350 million per week etc. etc.

No one was interested in the politics- in fact, "What is the EU?" was the second most popular search term the day after the referendum. People are really worried about the cost of living, jobs moving abroad, food shortages, etc.- things they were not told would be the real consequences of Brexit. They couldn't care less about your fears of a superstate. In fact, they would be glad of the military security, food security, and freedom, that international treaties give us.

You should do the decent thing, the democratic thing, and support the majority now they are clearly showing they regret leaving the EU. If you don't want to live in Europe, go and live in the US or somewhere where you would be happier.

The UK is a democracy, fortunately, and we try to abide by the will of the people. If a tiny minority are worried about the mythical loss of sovereignty that comes from international agreements, they are the ones who need to leave and not hold the country to ransom. (It would be just the same if the minority of anti-vaxxers were able to derail the national vaccination programmes).

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, pellinore said:

You may be worried about the EU becoming a superstate and the UK becoming part of it, but you realise you are in a tiny, tiny minority?

When people voted for Brexit, your argument wasn't used at all- people were told specifically that if they voted Leave, food and clothes would be cheaper, the UK could strike lucrative trade deals all around the world, fishermen and farmers would prosper, the NHS would get an extra £350 million per week etc. etc.

No one was interested in the politics- in fact, "What is the EU?" was the second most popular search term the day after the referendum. People are really worried about the cost of living, jobs moving abroad, food shortages, etc.- things they were not told would be the real consequences of Brexit. They couldn't care less about your fears of a superstate. In fact, they would be glad of the military security, food security, and freedom, that international treaties give us.

You should do the decent thing, the democratic thing, and support the majority now they are clearly showing they regret leaving the EU. If you don't want to live in Europe, go and live in the US or somewhere where you would be happier.

The UK is a democracy, fortunately, and we try to abide by the will of the people. If a tiny minority are worried about the mythical loss of sovereignty that comes from international agreements, they are the ones who need to leave and not hold the country to ransom. (It would be just the same if the minority of anti-vaxxers were able to derail the national vaccination programmes).

 

Give it up pellinore for crying out loud, it's over, so stop harassing me, and, more importantly, stop deliberately misrepresenting what I have said, because you're coming across as being absolutely completely deranged.

It doesn't matter that my particular argument wasn't used, for all you know pellinore, 17.4 million people might have all had a completely different reason for voting to Leave the EU, and possibly not one of them was anything to do with what "you" arrogantly assume why they voted to Leave the EU.

I have wanted to Leave the EU ever since John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992, without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "project", so the only person that influenced me into voting to Leave the EU was John Major.

I have waited patiently for over 20 years to have my say on EU membership, it was the ONE vote that I have always wanted, so people like you will not batter me down by your insults, abuse, sleight of facts and downright false statements. We voted. We decided. We were promised what we decided would be enacted. We have left. Get used to it.!!

If you don't want to live in a post-Brexit UK pellinore, how about YOU move to an EU vassal instead, I'm sure you'll be much happier in that crumbling political union folly.

Maybe you could move to France, where more than 55,000 companies closed in 2023, which is the highest figure since 2017. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.azernews.az/region/219964.html

 

Meanwhile, in this post-Brexit UK you obviously despise so much, according to new data from Companies House, 436,000 new businesses were registered in the first half of 2023 alone, compared with the same time period in 2022 (which was a record year for UK company formations by the way), which saw 402,000 new businesses set up. 👇👇👇👇

https://uktechnews.co.uk/2023/09/15/436000-new-businesses-registered-in-the-first-half-of-2023/

Edited by Destination Unknown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

You may be worried about the EU becoming a superstate and the UK becoming part of it, but you realise you are in a tiny, tiny minority?

When people voted for Brexit, your argument wasn't used at all

Nonetheless that is the reason many people voted to leave the EU.  Not the majority, for sure.  But many people all the same.  Including myself and everyone else I know who voted to leave.    We were not given a vote on Maastricht.   We did not agree with the way Maastricht completely changed what we signed up to with the Common Market in 1972.   We acted accordingly to register our dissatisfaction with what the Common Market had turned into and what we feared it would further become.

I don't know a single person who voted to leave due to immigration or any of the other silly ideas spouted by a bunch of washed up politicians on TV game shows or in junk tabloids ;)    

I appreciate however that those washed up politicians then took control of the whole process and took us out of everything that had the word Europe in it because they had childish and immature ideals, had no more concern for the UK public than a small whelk does regarding how much snow falls on Kilimanjaro in June, and are the perfect epitome of Douglas Adam's profound adage that on no account should anyone who wants to be president be allowed to get the job.  
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Essan said:

Nonetheless that is the reason many people voted to leave the EU.  Not the majority, for sure.  But many people all the same.  Including myself and everyone else I know who voted to leave.    We were not given a vote on Maastricht.   We did not agree with the way Maastricht completely changed what we signed up to with the Common Market in 1972.   We acted accordingly to register our dissatisfaction with what the Common Market had turned into and what we feared it would further become.

I don't know a single person who voted to leave due to immigration or any of the other silly ideas spouted by a bunch of washed up politicians on TV game shows or in junk tabloids ;)    

I appreciate however that those washed up politicians then took control of the whole process and took us out of everything that had the word Europe in it because they had childish and immature ideals, had no more concern for the UK public than a small whelk does regarding how much snow falls on Kilimanjaro in June, and are the perfect epitome of Douglas Adam's profound adage that on no account should anyone who wants to be president be allowed to get the job.  
 

That's interesting, Essen. What adverse consequences did you think remaining in the EU would have for the UK? (Real things, not a vague sense of reduced sovereignty.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

It doesn't matter that my particular argument wasn't used, for all you know pellinore, 17.4 million people might have all had a completely different reason for voting to Leave the EU, and possibly not one of them was anything to do with what "you" arrogantly assume why they voted to Leave the EU.

The arrogance is more on your side. Arrogance is defined as having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because they disagree with you is no reason to accuse them of arrogance.

2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

I have wanted to Leave the EU ever since John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992, without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "project", so the only person that influenced me into voting to Leave the EU was John Major.

You can't blame Major for binding the UK to the terms of the Maastricht Treaty. UK sovereignty does not, and did not, lie with Major but with the UK parliament. The Maastricht Treaty was ratified by the sovereign UK parliament. The people were not consulted because under it is parliament's decision. It was only after parliament took its sovereign decision that anti-EU MPs started to look for a referendum on the issue and when they got it, they lied through their teeth to a gullible electorate to get what everyone now realises was a disastrous Brexit. 

2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

I have waited patiently for over 20 years to have my say on EU membership, it was the ONE vote that I have always wanted, so people like you will not batter me down by your insults, abuse, sleight of facts and downright false statements. We voted. We decided. We were promised what we decided would be enacted. We have left. Get used to it.!!

Destination Unknown, even though you may have no clue as to where you are going, you are entitled to your vote, but it's only one of millions, a drop in the bucket. The 'sleight of facts and downright false statements' used by the Leave campaign to dupe turkeys into voting for Christmas has actually resulted in a better informed public today due their experience of the reality of Brexit and they will want to reverse its effects to a greater or lesser extent. You may not like the trajectory the EU is taking, but that is the way of the world. No country is an island able to exist in economic isolation from its neighbours, it is not possible. The UK is no exception. It depends on other countries for many things and will have to cooperate with them in its own interests. Not dictate to them, but cooperate, and the best way to cooperate economically is through free trade and that always comes at a cost.

As Brexiteers you might have decided what you wanted, but is it what the majority want. Like the anti-EU rebels in parliament in 1993, they lost by 40 votes, but they did not accept the majority decision. In 2016, the Remain campaign lost by a margin of 4%. And so it goes on.  Brexit will lose again in the near future. Get used to it!!   

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Give it up pellinore for crying out loud, it's over, so stop harassing me,

Okay, I'll stop responding to your posts. I was merely pointing out that democracy did not end in 2016 and the clear wish of the majority now is that Leaving was a mistake and we should rejoin. It is not me that has a problem with democracy and respecting the wishes of the majority. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, pellinore said:

That's interesting, Essen. What adverse consequences did you think remaining in the EU would have for the UK? (Real things, not a vague sense of reduced sovereignty.)

It's not always about what is best financially ;)     For some people, ethics are more important.

I objected to the EU in principle because a) we were specifically not asked if we wanted to join (Major knew we'd say no) - and that should always raise alarm bells -  and b) IMO it had clearly moved far away from just a trading confederation (which I did approve of) - into a wannabe super-power with growing imperialist intentions.   And I don't like super powers, super states or imperialists.  I want no membership of such groups thank you! 

It's bad enough being forced to join a club, but when you disagree with the direction that club is going?  

It was always clear that the UK would be worse off in some ways outside of the EU.  But sometimes there is more to life than money.   And the worse impacts would have been avoided if our Govt were not a bunch of squabbling 6 year old girlies and we'd remained within the free trade area  (which would have been, IMO, a fair compromise between the extreme europhiles, the extreme europhobes (ie half the Tory party and that hypocritical idiot Farage) and the 90% of people who sit somewhere inbetween.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/8/2024 at 2:14 AM, Destination Unknown said:

Exactly. A totally German dominated Europe with its own Armed Forces.... What could possibly go wrong.

If only there were a moderating influence within the EU...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Setton said:

If only there were a moderating influence within the EU...

That's like saying it would obviously be better to be a part of the former Soviet Union rather than being an independent sovereign nation like we are right now, because at least that way we would have been able to influence it from within. 🤦

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Essan said:

It's not always about what is best financially ;)     For some people, ethics are more important.

I objected to the EU in principle because a) we were specifically not asked if we wanted to join (Major knew we'd say no) - and that should always raise alarm bells -  and b) IMO it had clearly moved far away from just a trading confederation (which I did approve of) - into a wannabe super-power with growing imperialist intentions.   And I don't like super powers, super states or imperialists.  I want no membership of such groups thank you! 

It's bad enough being forced to join a club, but when you disagree with the direction that club is going?  

It was always clear that the UK would be worse off in some ways outside of the EU.  But sometimes there is more to life than money.   And the worse impacts would have been avoided if our Govt were not a bunch of squabbling 6 year old girlies and we'd remained within the free trade area  (which would have been, IMO, a fair compromise between the extreme europhiles, the extreme europhobes (ie half the Tory party and that hypocritical idiot Farage) and the 90% of people who sit somewhere inbetween.

Thanks for responding. I shall have a think. I respect your opinions though don't necessarily agree with them. With regard to (a) we'd probably have had the same untrue economic benefits being presented all over again-Hannan with the 'sunlit uplands', Davis with 'no downsides, only upsides', Gove with 'exact same benefits', Johnson with 'more money to spend on health, education and other public services'- though they would be different politicians probably. And that's because most people can't afford the luxury of living off their ethics- its why people buy cheap food from dubious sources.

I can also see your point on (b), but I personally don't mind being part of a super-power- it would give us security against China, Russia and the US (economically speaking). Bear in mind, we were a big cheese in the EU, able to form policy and veto what we didn't agree with.

With regard to free trade, many Brexiters (including Frost and Hannan) said 'only a fool would leave the SM'. Then Johnson did just that, to placate the ERG.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

If only there were a moderating influence within the EU...

1 minute ago, Destination Unknown said:

That's like saying it would obviously be better to be a part of the former Soviet Union rather than being an independent sovereign nation like we are right now, because at least that way we would have been able to influence it from within. 🤦

@Setton, it is apparent that @Destination Unknown does not understand the basic principles behind the EU. (I hope you noticed, DU, that I did not respond to you, so you can't accuse me of harassment).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, pellinore said:

@Setton, it is apparent that @Destination Unknown does not understand the basic principles behind the EU. (I hope you noticed, DU, that I did not respond to you, so you can't accuse me of harassment).

He's either a troll or a bot. I don't believe it's a coincidence his posts use the exact same phrases, sentences, even emojis in response to certain key words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Setton said:

He's either a troll or a bot. I don't believe it's a coincidence his posts use the exact same phrases, sentences, even emojis in response to certain key words.

I had the same thought. He might be like Barnaby Lane of Quora- who is thought to be front for a Tufton Street-type group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

The arrogance is more on your side. Arrogance is defined as having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just because they disagree with you is no reason to accuse them of arrogance.

You can't blame Major for binding the UK to the terms of the Maastricht Treaty. UK sovereignty does not, and did not, lie with Major but with the UK parliament. The Maastricht Treaty was ratified by the sovereign UK parliament. The people were not consulted because under it is parliament's decision. It was only after parliament took its sovereign decision that anti-EU MPs started to look for a referendum on the issue and when they got it, they lied through their teeth to a gullible electorate to get what everyone now realises was a disastrous Brexit. 

Destination Unknown, even though you may have no clue as to where you are going, you are entitled to your vote, but it's only one of millions, a drop in the bucket. The 'sleight of facts and downright false statements' used by the Leave campaign to dupe turkeys into voting for Christmas has actually resulted in a better informed public today due their experience of the reality of Brexit and they will want to reverse its effects to a greater or lesser extent. You may not like the trajectory the EU is taking, but that is the way of the world. No country is an island able to exist in economic isolation from its neighbours, it is not possible. The UK is no exception. It depends on other countries for many things and will have to cooperate with them in its own interests. Not dictate to them, but cooperate, and the best way to cooperate economically is through free trade and that always comes at a cost.

As Brexiteers you might have decided what you wanted, but is it what the majority want. Like the anti-EU rebels in parliament in 1993, they lost by 40 votes, but they did not accept the majority decision. In 2016, the Remain campaign lost by a margin of 4%. And so it goes on.  Brexit will lose again in the near future. Get used to it!!   

You start off by claiming that the arrogance is more on my side, and then go on to arrogantly claim that I am part of a gullible electorate just because they happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and the direction it has taken. That's just sheer arrogance right there.

Well I'm sorry Ozy, just because they disagree with you, there's no need to accuse them of arrogance.

As for the rest of your nonsense, I will address that (rip it to shreds) another time, because I have a busy rest of the day being gullible ahead of me. 🤦

Edited by Destination Unknown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, pellinore said:

@Setton, it is apparent that @Destination Unknown does not understand the basic principles behind the EU. (I hope you noticed, DU, that I did not respond to you, so you can't accuse me of harassment).

I fully understand the basic principles of the EU, and how it was imposed on us through stealth without our consent.

Just because I fully understand the basic principles of the EU, why does that automatically mean that I should want to be a part of it?

Edited by Destination Unknown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

Okay, I'll stop responding to your posts. I was merely pointing out that democracy did not end in 2016 and the clear wish of the majority now is that Leaving was a mistake and we should rejoin. It is not me that has a problem with democracy and respecting the wishes of the majority. 

I didn’t ask you to stop responding to my posts, I asked you to stop harassing me and taking what I have said in another article and posting it elsewhere deliberately misrepresenting what I actually meant by claiming I meant something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Setton said:

He's either a troll or a bot. I don't believe it's a coincidence his posts use the exact same phrases, sentences, even emojis in response to certain key words.

So anyone that can argue their side of the debate (quite successfully I might add) is automatically either a troll or a bot to you then?

That's the usual response from someone who knows they've lost the debate, attacking the person, not the message.

Edited by Destination Unknown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.