pellinore Posted January 15 #1 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Germany is preparing for Vladimir Putin's forces to attack NATO in 2025, according to leaked secret plans. Secret documents from the German Ministry of Defence reveal a step-by-step doomsday guide on how Russia will escalate the conflict in Ukraine to an all-out war in just 18 months. The leaked plans, published by German newspaper Bild, reveal in detail the path to a Third World War with Putin using Belarus as a launching pad for an invasion - as he did in February 2022 for his war in Ukraine. The release of the terrifying documents come just days after Sweden's civil defence minister warned that his country could soon face the prospect of war and urged citizens to join voluntary defence organisations in preparation for a Russian attack. Germany is preparing for Putin attack against NATO in 2025: Leaked secret plans reveal step-by-step how Russia will escalate conflict to all-out war in 18 months | Daily Mail Online Edited January 15 by pellinore 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 15 #2 Share Posted January 15 If Germany is so sure of this we might as well get in a first strike. Although I think this is aimed at the US and what they might do, or not, to defend Europe if it comes to it. The idea of an imminent Russian attack is useful for persuading the US to put troops back in to Germany.😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted January 15 #3 Share Posted January 15 Sounds to me like this would be one of numerous possible scenarios that Germany is preparing for. Nobody knows if things will play out exactly like this - in all likelihood they won't. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 15 Author #4 Share Posted January 15 Seeing these are secret plans, I hope the Daily Mail readers keep it to themselves. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 15 Author #5 Share Posted January 15 35 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: If Germany is so sure of this we might as well get in a first strike. Although I think this is aimed at the US and what they might do, or not, to defend Europe if it comes to it. The idea of an imminent Russian attack is useful for persuading the US to put troops back in to Germany.😉 The UK is sending 20,000 troops to Eastern Europe, I believe. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 15 #6 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, pellinore said: The UK is sending 20,000 troops to Eastern Europe, I believe. Yes, I did see that today. A serious deployment for us. Maybe the UK has come to the same conclusions as the Germans ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 15 #7 Share Posted January 15 58 minutes ago, pellinore said: Germany is preparing for Vladimir Putin's forces to attack NATO in 2025, according to leaked secret plans. Secret documents from the German Ministry of Defence reveal a step-by-step doomsday guide on how Russia will escalate the conflict in Ukraine to an all-out war in just 18 months. The leaked plans, published by German newspaper Bild, reveal in detail the path to a Third World War with Putin using Belarus as a launching pad for an invasion - as he did in February 2022 for his war in Ukraine. The release of the terrifying documents come just days after Sweden's civil defence minister warned that his country could soon face the prospect of war and urged citizens to join voluntary defence organisations in preparation for a Russian attack. Germany is preparing for Putin attack against NATO in 2025: Leaked secret plans reveal step-by-step how Russia will escalate conflict to all-out war in 18 months | Daily Mail Online They will have done full scenario planning for a load of different events playing out. One of those would be a Russian war. They do that so whenever one of the scenarios arises they can get it out the safe, pass it out, they all execute their plan, and monitor it tweaking it as they go. They`ll even have a plan for a war against Britain, the USA, and France, as we will all have for a war against it. The thing to realise is that there is a probability attached to the likelihood of a scenario occurring and I still place one involving a war with Russia to be moderate, not high. Lets imagine Russia goes for it: 1. Russia invades the Baltic States and Finland. 2. NATO will be outraged but stuck. It knows a war with Britain, France, and the USA involved is extremely dangerous as it could very easily slip into a nuclear exchange. Hence NATO will be paralysed, in fact I predict the alliance would collapse. 3. The new conflicts would once again become proxy wars to avoid direction nuclear confrontation. 4. In effect, and the Russians have probably already realised it, they could roll all the way up to the borders of France only eliciting proxy wars back. But Russia hasn`t mobilised to the level it would need to do that. It would take 5 years of manufacturing military assets and logistics, and a large trained army. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 15 #8 Share Posted January 15 10 minutes ago, pellinore said: The UK is sending 20,000 troops to Eastern Europe, I believe. Thats a quarter of our land army. The defence policy needs tweaking, instead of 82,500 land forces we need 200,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 15 #9 Share Posted January 15 16 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said: Thats a quarter of our land army. The defence policy needs tweaking, instead of 82,500 land forces we need 200,000. To achieve those numbers would need national service, I can volunteer for Dads Army. 🧐 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 15 #10 Share Posted January 15 Apparently there are lots of potential recruits on the French beaches, young and fit from a long walk. Just need to send some small boats over and pick them up. Hang on... where have they all gone. 🤨 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted January 15 #11 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said: If Germany is so sure of this we might as well get in a first strike. Although I think this is aimed at the US and what they might do, or not, to defend Europe if it comes to it. The idea of an imminent Russian attack is useful for persuading the US to put troops back in to Germany.😉 I think the pacifist Germans are looking to raise defence spending with scare mongering tactics. Russia will have to get through Ukraine, Poland and NATO before it reaches Germany. Looking at Ukraine, I doubt there will be an able bodied Russian army by then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted January 15 #12 Share Posted January 15 22 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: Apparently there are lots of potential recruits on the French beaches, young and fit from a long walk. Just need to send some small boats over and pick them up. Hang on... where have they all gone. 🤨 Press them straight into service. Great idea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 15 Author #13 Share Posted January 15 21 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said: Press them straight into service. Great idea Good idea. I know someone who lived in Israel for 2 years, constantly agitating to become as Israeli citizen. They eventually granted him citizenship and immediately conscripted him into the IDF. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted January 15 #14 Share Posted January 15 33 minutes ago, pellinore said: Good idea. I know someone who lived in Israel for 2 years, constantly agitating to become as Israeli citizen. They eventually granted him citizenship and immediately conscripted him into the IDF. In the U.S. you don’t have to be a citizen to join the army BUT get citizenship after your term of service is over. If you won’t get a job and pay taxes then earn it! That’s what I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz_Light_Year Posted January 15 #15 Share Posted January 15 I really don't see Russia opening up new fronts anywhere as they've already bit off more than they can chew with Ukraine. What they're saying about the Russia-Ukraine war is that between the drones and land mines the front is at a stalemate for both sides. Now I can see an incident leading to NATO involvement but they've already had a Russian jet fire on a RAF Spook plane over the Black Sea and nothing came of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted January 15 #16 Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, Saru said: Sounds to me like this would be one of numerous possible scenarios that Germany is preparing for. Nobody knows if things will play out exactly like this - in all likelihood they won't. Exactly. It's pretty standard to plan for realistic worst case scenarios. It's the same as the ones planned for COVID (only young healthy people would be ventilated etc.) or Brexit (immediate massive recession). Trouble is, the ill-informed public tend to latch onto these then claim experts are useless when the worst case forecast doesn't happen... 3 hours ago, Electric Scooter said: Thats a quarter of our land army. The defence policy needs tweaking, instead of 82,500 land forces we need 200,000. Are you happy to shoulder the tax rises needed for that? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted January 15 #17 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Governments have a lots of plans for all kind of scenarios. Thought Trump did go on record saying he wouldn't defend our European allies. And if he won he would take office in 2025. Edited January 15 by spartan max2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted January 15 #18 Share Posted January 15 If this happens, then by 2027, Russia could well have advanced 20 miles into Poland. And could be in France before the end of the century, 😮 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 15 #19 Share Posted January 15 20 minutes ago, Setton said: Exactly. It's pretty standard to plan for realistic worst case scenarios. It's the same as the ones planned for COVID (only young healthy people would be ventilated etc.) or Brexit (immediate massive recession). Trouble is, the ill-informed public tend to latch onto these then claim experts are useless when the worst case forecast doesn't happen... Are you happy to shoulder the tax rises needed for that? Yes the media pass on worst case scenarios from the scenario planning, and most of them don`t link to the source for the public to check it out themselves. They have to search, to find out the truth. Personally, I couldn`t care less about Ukraine. It`s 2000 miles away, supporting them has no benefit to the UK, its about the EU wanting to expand East, and I`m against the EU. I think we should do the minimum we possible can under NATO obligations, and lift those sanctions off Russia. For a larger army for our own use then instead of spending 2.1% of GDP I think it should be 10%. I would like to see: 4 aircraft carriers, 40 destroyers, 40 submarines, and 80 frigates and corvettes. 300,000 land forces, 1000 tanks, 500 fighter jets, 100 bombers, and 1000 nuclear warheads. Essentially, lets become a superpower again. Bring in Canada, Australia, all with half of the above again each. Bring in New Zealand with a quarter of the above again. And whenever we go to war with somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan lets conquer them properly and keep them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted January 15 #20 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said: Yes the media pass on worst case scenarios from the scenario planning, and most of them don`t link to the source for the public to check it out themselves. They have to search, to find out the truth. Personally, I couldn`t care less about Ukraine. It`s 2000 miles away, supporting them has no benefit to the UK, its about the EU wanting to expand East, and I`m against the EU. I think we should do the minimum we possible can under NATO obligations, and lift those sanctions off Russia. For a larger army for our own use then instead of spending 2.1% of GDP I think it should be 10%. I would like to see: 4 aircraft carriers, 40 destroyers, 40 submarines, and 80 frigates and corvettes. 300,000 land forces, 1000 tanks, 500 fighter jets, 100 bombers, and 1000 nuclear warheads. Essentially, lets become a superpower again. Bring in Canada, Australia, all with half of the above again each. Bring in New Zealand with a quarter of the above again. And whenever we go to war with somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan lets conquer them properly and keep them. So which taxes do we raise and buy how much? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted January 15 #21 Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, Electric Scooter said: Thats a quarter of our land army. The defence policy needs tweaking, instead of 82,500 land forces we need 200,000. Russia went through 200,000 soldiers in a year. British army is very small for the size and GDP of the UK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 15 Author #22 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said: I really don't see Russia opening up new fronts anywhere as they've already bit off more than they can chew with Ukraine. I don't think Russia sees it like that. I think they see it as an ideological conflict that can go on for generations, in fact the longer the better, even everlasting, as George Orwell described in 1984. It keeps the elite in power and the people who are dying are unimportant- except that they are useful symbols to mark a patriotic war. I know it is hard to conduct polls in Russia, but I believe Putin and the war are supported by about 70% of the population. I also believe probably a majority of the Russian population believe they are free, and the West envies them. If you have been brought up with relentless propaganda and been taught that a village bathhouse shared by only 10 families is the height of luxury, and being able to afford a burger and fries once a month is a treat, then you will be willing to fight to keep these privileges. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 15 #23 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Setton said: So which taxes do we raise and buy how much? It doesn`t matter, if the money is spend in our own military industrial-complex it will create economic growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted January 19 #24 Share Posted January 19 Here our military and emergency services drill for a zombie apocalypse. Worst case scenario is always the best thing to be ready to handle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted January 19 #25 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, OverSword said: Here our military and emergency services drill for a zombie apocalypse. Worst case scenario is always the best thing to be ready to handle. The boys and I have been training for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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