Destination Unknown Posted January 21, 2024 #26 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 45 minutes ago, pellinore said: I know the idea that the prime motivator was tax evasion has been debunked, but it was the motivation for some people, and it is a fact that the very wealthy and disaster capitalists have been the only people to benefit. Try telling that to low-paid British workers, who have seen their wages stagnate for decades whilst we were in your beloved EU, but who are now seeing their wages finally rising because employers who previously relied on a never ending stream of cheap labour from the continent no longer have that option. I can only assume with your pointless crusade to blame absolutely everything negative on Brexit that you would obviously much rather low-paid British workers stayed as low-paid British workers forever. Yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from pellinore, with you it's to hell with those pesky working class peasants, they deserve to be crushed under the jackboot of your beloved EU just for their insolence in even daring to think for themselves eh. That's right isn't it pellinore, you just cannot stand the thought of the working class uprising against your authority, which is reflected in your attitude towards those that happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and who happened to have voted opposite to you in a 2-choice vote. You look down on us in your high and mighty "I'm better than you are you pathetic slime" as if we're something off the bottom of your shoe (or EU Jack Boot). https://businessnewswales.com/wages-soar-by-11-in-brexit-exposed-sectors-data-finds/ Edited January 21, 2024 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 21, 2024 #27 Share Posted January 21, 2024 4 hours ago, Tatetopa said: That is encouraging. How can you harness all of those offshore trillions to help the citizens of Britain? Why should the peasants have more than the basics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 21, 2024 #28 Share Posted January 21, 2024 49 minutes ago, pellinore said: The present government isn't interested in investing in Britain. Even our actual Minister for Brexit Opportunities (a post which lasted less than a year), Rees Mogg, moved his investment company (Somerset Holdings) to the EU straight after Brexit and banks in the Cayman Islands. Sir John Redwood, financial advisor, advises his clients to move their money to the EU and along with Nigel Farage constantly agitates to sell off the NHS to the US. Rees Mogg blithely says we don't need to produce stuff as we can buy it cheaper from abroad. Our PM's wife has non-dom status, so she pays a nominal flat rate of £40,000 per year tax on her billions in assets. They conned the likes of the steel workers, farmers and fishermen into believing their incomes would be safe once we left the EU. Unlike @Destination Unknown, most ordinarily workers believed they would be better off after Brexit, not worse off, and unlike him they were not motivated by a political desire to be free of Europe, they just wanted a better life for themselves and their families. Instead, the fishermen (apart from a small percentage) lost fishing grounds and their market, the farmers lost seasonal labour and CAP, and ordinary workers lost out as their firms moved to the EU. A few workers have had wage increases due to labour shortages, but that is offset by the losses. The latest study using a doppelganger model (comparing the actual UK's economy with one where we stayed in the EU) shows the contraction has increased from -4% to -6.5%. And from the end of this month we will be forced by WTO rules to impose import controls. Moggies fund investment scheme is in Ireland. Lower taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 21, 2024 Author #29 Share Posted January 21, 2024 They were turkeys voting for Christmas: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted January 21, 2024 #30 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 25 minutes ago, pellinore said: They were turkeys voting for Christmas: Why not ask them if they would vote Labour instead eh pellinore, after all, the only reason why Tata Steel is closing their blast furnaces is because of the Welsh Labour Government's net zero policies that are destroying Welsh industry. https://www.gov.wales/net-zero-industry-wales-established-support-decarbonisation-welsh-industry Edited January 21, 2024 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 21, 2024 Author #31 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) There is not much doubt in Wales as to the cause of the closure: He spoke to former First Minister Carwyn Jones to find out. The answer? Brexit, as so often in recent years when there’s negative news on the economy, is to blame, just as it was with British Steel. Robertson noted that Conservative politicians and Brexiters such as Nigel Farage have blamed the losses on climate policy and “net zero hysteria”. When asked how much truth there is to that, Jones said, “None. Is the simple answer.” He noted that other steelworks in the EU, including Tata Steel operations there, are proceeding as normal with no job losses. “It’s the UK’s operations, and particularly those in Wales, that are taking the brunt of the redundancies. We’ve seen what’s happened within the EU, we’ve seen what’s happened in the UK, why the difference?” Tata Steel: former First Minister Carwyn Jones blames Brexit (bylines.cymru) Edited January 21, 2024 by pellinore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted January 21, 2024 #32 Share Posted January 21, 2024 6 hours ago, Destination Unknown said: Why not ask them if they would vote Labour instead eh pellinore, after all, the only reason why Tata Steel is closing their blast furnaces is because of the Welsh Labour Government's net zero policies that are destroying Welsh industry. That's not true, there are a multitude of reasons behind the decision both domestic and international. I also don't see why you are singling out the Welsh government here, since the UK government has been pushing for net zero for years: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6194dfa4d3bf7f0555071b1b/net-zero-strategy-beis.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 21, 2024 #33 Share Posted January 21, 2024 One problem for Wales is infrastructure, Mark Drakeford's decision to scrap a relief road on the Newport stretch of the M4 has caused a bottle neck for the main arterial route into the steel works. "In December 2011, the Welsh Government entered into discussions with the incoming UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne to discuss financial assistance for the road project. In February 2012 related work started on a dual-carriageway road connecting Newport's southern distributor road to junction 23A of the M4 using part of the proposed route of the M4 relief road and a former access road to the Llanwern steelworks." On 4 June 2019 the First Minister of Wales, Mark Drakeford, announced that the scheme would not proceed on the basis of escalating costs now at £1.4bn. Drakeford further attributed the decision to the global climate crisis and local "environmental impacts" to the Gwent Levels Drakeford then compounded that decision by reducing the speed limit on the M4 from 70 to 50mph. This is a welsh government decision. Drakefords excuse for the moves was air quality improvements, well with the old blast furnace's shut he should get those improvements in spades. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63658934 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_relief_road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted January 21, 2024 #34 Share Posted January 21, 2024 16 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said: One problem for Wales is infrastructure, Mark Drakeford's decision to scrap a relief road on the Newport stretch of the M4 has caused a bottle neck for the main arterial route into the steel works. I'm sure that didn't help matters but I haven't seen any references to this being a major contributing factor in the closure of the furnaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.A.T.1961 Posted January 21, 2024 #35 Share Posted January 21, 2024 4 minutes ago, Saru said: I'm sure that didn't help matters but I haven't seen any references to this being a major contributing factor in the closure of the furnaces. Not getting steel out and empty trucks in would be a big headache. But TATA will concentrate on leveraging gov money first and foremost as it can be done quickly, so no surprise poor roads has not been specifically mentioned. And TATA know asking for a new road would take probably a decade or more to build, even if permission could get past local MP's playing politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMindedSceptic Posted January 21, 2024 #36 Share Posted January 21, 2024 19 hours ago, pellinore said: Not only is common sense that if you turn your back on the world's largest economy you will take an economic hit, but when you also allow your own economy to be deregulated then there will be no safety net for you. Whether it is all worthwhile just to be governed by the British clowns in the present government is an individual choice. This worker is seeing sense, but too late for him: Largest economy in the world is USA, then China, then Japan. EU, not even in the top 3, not even close to largest economy in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMindedSceptic Posted January 21, 2024 #37 Share Posted January 21, 2024 Spokesperson on BBC Radio 4 stated net zero as an aim.that governments and shareholders are asking Tata to aim for. 3 elctro rods into a melting pot instead of the current ways to melt steel helps meet the target. The climate change being down to humans and CO2 scam is really gonna hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted January 21, 2024 #38 Share Posted January 21, 2024 10 hours ago, Electric Scooter said: Why should the peasants have more than the basics? Well fed peasants are the signs of a rich lord and rich lands. When your guards are hungry too, you are a lot more likely to be killed in your sleep.. Your lands grow fallow, your workers are idle, your estates wither. If you do not wake up Sir Noble, soon enough you will have to follow your money out of Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted January 21, 2024 #39 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 4 hours ago, Saru said: That's not true, there are a multitude of reasons behind the decision both domestic and international. I also don't see why you are singling out the Welsh government here, since the UK government has been pushing for net zero for years: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6194dfa4d3bf7f0555071b1b/net-zero-strategy-beis.pdf Because the Welsh Government's 'Minister for Economy', Vaughan Gething, confirmed the Welsh Government's steadfast commitment to Net Zero targets when he announced the creation of 'Net Zero Industry Wales'. Ironically, this was during a visit to TATA Steel in Port Talbot in March 2022. https://www.gov.wales/net-zero-industry-wales-established-support-decarbonisation-welsh-industry Edited January 21, 2024 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted January 21, 2024 #40 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 6 hours ago, pellinore said: There is not much doubt in Wales as to the cause of the closure: He spoke to former First Minister Carwyn Jones to find out. The answer? Brexit, as so often in recent years when there’s negative news on the economy, is to blame, just as it was with British Steel. Robertson noted that Conservative politicians and Brexiters such as Nigel Farage have blamed the losses on climate policy and “net zero hysteria”. When asked how much truth there is to that, Jones said, “None. Is the simple answer.” He noted that other steelworks in the EU, including Tata Steel operations there, are proceeding as normal with no job losses. “It’s the UK’s operations, and particularly those in Wales, that are taking the brunt of the redundancies. We’ve seen what’s happened within the EU, we’ve seen what’s happened in the UK, why the difference?” Tata Steel: former First Minister Carwyn Jones blames Brexit (bylines.cymru) Of course he blames Brexit pellinore, because he, like you, is determined to just automatically blame anything negative on Brexit, without even looking at the real reason/s behind the closure, whilst at the same time remaining strangely silent when it comes to positive news, such as the UK's recent Financial Services deal that was signed between the UK and Switzerland just a few weeks ago. The deal is admitted - even by ardent EU supporters - to be better than what the EU has in place with Switzerland, and could not have been signed whilst we were EU members. But nobody wants to mention that. 🤔👇👇👇👇 https://financefeeds.com/uk-and-switzerland-sign-berne-pact-for-open-access-to-financial-services/ Again, here's the actual press release from the Tata Steel website regarding the Port Talbot closure, dated January 19, 2024. Now if Brexit was a factor, surely you've got to agree that it would have at least been mentioned in Tata's own press release. Quote: "Tata Steel today announced it will commence statutory consultation as part of its plan to transform and restructure its UK business. This plan is intended to reverse more than a decade of losses and transition from the legacy blast furnaces to a more sustainable, green steel business. The transformation would secure most of Tata Steel UK’s existing product capability and maintain the country’s self-sufficiency in steelmaking, while also reducing Tata Steel UK’s CO2 emissions by 5 million tonnes per year and overall UK country emissions by about 1.5%." So no mention of Brexit anywhere in that press release, but plenty mention of reducing CO2 emissions, so why can't you just accept that this would have happened anyway, even if we were still in your beloved EU? 🤔👇👇👇👇 https://www.tatasteel.com/media/newsroom/press-releases/india/2024/tata-steel-announces-next-steps-towards-its-ambitious-transformation-from-blast-furnaces-to-green-steelmaking-in-the-uk-and-initiates-statutory-consultation/ Edited January 21, 2024 by Destination Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted January 21, 2024 Author #41 Share Posted January 21, 2024 2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said: So no mention of Brexit anywhere in that press release, but plenty mention of reducing CO2 emissions, so why can't you just accept that this would have happened anyway, even if we were still in your beloved EU? 🤔👇👇👇👇 Of course it would have happened (the move to Net Zero in 26 years' time), but the plant would not have closed in the UK because we would not have been hit by tariffs. The tariffs only apply to third countries- which we now are. You seem determined not to realise the change in status of the UK from being in the SM and being outside it. The EU has a protectionist economy, and they protect their member countries. We chose to throw ourselves to the wolves in the global economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted January 21, 2024 #42 Share Posted January 21, 2024 (edited) 47 minutes ago, pellinore said: Of course it would have happened (the move to Net Zero in 26 years' time), but the plant would not have closed in the UK because we would not have been hit by tariffs. The tariffs only apply to third countries- which we now are. You seem determined not to realise the change in status of the UK from being in the SM and being outside it. The EU has a protectionist economy, and they protect their member countries. We chose to throw ourselves to the wolves in the global economy. Oh give it a rest pellinore and stop deliberately twisting the truth in order to try and make it fit your completely pointless anti-Brexit "crusade". "Tata Steel confirms 1,200 job losses as industry crisis deepens. Scotland and Scunthorpe bear brunt of job losses, leaving one in six workers facing axe in one month." Must be Brexit. Oh wait, this was in October 2015, whilst we were in the EU and the SM, so where does that fit into your ludicrous "the EU protects its members" nonsense then eh pellinore. 🤦👇👇👇👇 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/20/tata-steel-expected-to-announce-1200-job-losses-in-uk Edited January 21, 2024 by Destination Unknown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellinore Posted February 13, 2024 Author #43 Share Posted February 13, 2024 On 1/21/2024 at 5:55 PM, OpenMindedSceptic said: Spokesperson on BBC Radio 4 stated net zero as an aim.that governments and shareholders are asking Tata to aim for. 3 elctro rods into a melting pot instead of the current ways to melt steel helps meet the target. The climate change being down to humans and CO2 scam is really gonna hurt. Watch Richard Tice get DEMOLISHED when he tries to use the Net Zero argument: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Unknown Posted February 13, 2024 #44 Share Posted February 13, 2024 10 minutes ago, pellinore said: Watch Richard Tice get DEMOLISHED when he tries to use the Net Zero argument: Caolan stated that there was nothing to back up the claim that the Port Talbot closure was down to net zero targets, when quite clearly there was, from Tata Steels own press release regarding the Port Talbot closures. Here's the actual press release from the Tata Steel website regarding the Port Talbot closure, dated January 19, 2024, and no mention of Brexit anywhere in that press release, but plenty mention of reducing CO2 emissions. Caolan is knowingly lying through his teeth to get the UK to rejoin, and it's ironic that you Remoaners are falling for it, whilst at the same time telling Leave voters they fell for Leave campaign lies. 🤦👇👇👇👇 https://www.tatasteel.com/media/newsroom/press-releases/india/2024/tata-steel-announces-next-steps-towards-its-ambitious-transformation-from-blast-furnaces-to-green-steelmaking-in-the-uk-and-initiates-statutory-consultation/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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