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Texas is ignoring a SCOTUS ruling on its right to defend its citizens by controlling the border


and-then

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2 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

They`ll be more unravelling to come in the run up to the election.

Very dangerous time.

Sadly, yes.  The sides are digging in and refusing to talk in any meaningful way.

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2 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Again, you repeat this claim. I've found multiple instances where this claim was shown to be a lie. Is this yet another lie?

I'm not sure why this idea is so very difficult to grasp.  I have said and continue to say that I BELIEVE IT WAS STOLEN. Tens of millions of American also believe this.  The beliefs of tens of millions of your neighbors cannot simply be shouted down.  The fact that millions also are convinced that the election was the most secure ever, is the actual issue.  You have a right to your beliefs and you have based it off of media reports that have convinced that you are correct and those tens of millions of your neighbors are either delusional or engaged in election denial.  The media is going to continue stoking this fire until the reprcussions are underway.

I'll repeat it once more.  Tens of millions of Americans BELIEVE 2020 was rigged and stolen and there is nothing your party and its media can do that will compel the rest of us to accept another example of such fraud in November.  If the Dems and their media cucks actually wanted dialogue and the restoration of trust they would reach out in a bipartisan way to accomplish this.  They not only refuse, they are stoking discontent while pushing to use the same strategy this November. 

The outcome has been pre-ordained as a result.  Unless actual concrete steps are taken to verify every vote and to investigate every irregularity, Dems will likely try again to foist their will on America and THIS TIME their efforts will lead to chaos and a potential secessionist movement, or even dissolution.

BELIEF matters.  If the tables were turned and it was you lot who were making these claims - as in 2016 - you'd be seeing chaos and violence in the streets of major cities - like 2020.  BELIEF MATTERS.

Edited by and-then
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1 hour ago, and-then said:

I'm not sure why this idea is so very difficult to grasp.  I have said and continue to say that I BELIEVE IT WAS STOLEN. Tens of millions of American also believe this.  The beliefs of tens of millions of your neighbors cannot simply be shouted down.  The fact that millions also are convinced that the election was the most secure ever, is the actual issue.  You have a right to your beliefs and you have based it off of media reports that have convinced that you are correct and those tens of millions of your neighbors are either delusional or engaged in election denial.  The media is going to continue stoking this fire until the reprcussions are underway.

I'll repeat it once more.  Tens of millions of Americans BELIEVE 2020 was rigged and stolen and there is nothing your party and its media can do that will compel the rest of us to accept another example of such fraud in November.  If the Dems and their media cucks actually wanted dialogue and the restoration of trust they would reach out in a bipartisan way to accomplish this.  They not only refuse, they are stoking discontent while pushing to use the same strategy this November. 

The outcome has been pre-ordained as a result.  Unless actual concrete steps are taken to verify every vote and to investigate every irregularity, Dems will likely try again to foist their will on America and THIS TIME their efforts will lead to chaos and a potential secessionist movement, or even dissolution.

BELIEF matters.  If the tables were turned and it was you lot who were making these claims - as in 2016 - you'd be seeing chaos and violence in the streets of major cities - like 2020.  BELIEF MATTERS.

So I'll take all that drivel as no, you can't even back up one specific claim you made.

Sad! Many such cases!

EDIT: For the record, @and-then referenced votes coming from empty lots, which is a pretty specific and oft-repeated claim by people affected with his specific brand of brain worms. However, multiple allegations of this have been clearly shown to be wrong.

Example from Washington:

 https://www.king5.com/article/news/investigations/investigation-voter-fraud-claims-mason-county-western-washington/281-71c92dfb-722e-43b6-ae50-0a37c8b1ea77

Intrepid morons didn't find the addresses they thought they did.

Example from Arizona:

https://www.azmirror.com/2021/09/10/voter-canvass-features-big-allegations-zero-evidence-outright-falsehoods/

Idiots issue report that misses a house visible from the street in their 'vacant lot'.

I was interested if our sadly misinformed friend had any real cases, but it appears he does not. No facts, no evidence, only belief and anger.

Pretty sad.

 

Edited by Doc Socks Junior
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For some interesting nuance, I might suggest that Greg Abbott best defends his own citizens by allowing more illegal immigration.

From the warped libertarian minds of the Cato Institute, research sure to shock every 'independent/libertarian' on this site, I present...

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

From the working paper linked therein:

Quote

Whether one focuses on criminal convictions, arrests, or the number of individuals convicted or arrested, the results are the same: illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate than native-born Americans in Texas. Legal immigrants have the lowest rates of all, except for some measures of property crime where illegal immigrants are even less crime prone. Native-born Americans living in Texas have the highest criminal conviction and arrest rates in all of the figures above.

So, don't bus away those migrants, Greg. They're helping dilute the crimes of your own citizens.

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2 hours ago, and-then said:

I'm not sure why this idea is so very difficult to grasp.  I have said and continue to say that I BELIEVE IT WAS STOLEN.

OK, now I get it, I think.  It is a BELIEF.  I sure couldn't argue that you believe something  Beliefs don't need to be based on fact.  So we are living in two different worlds, and facts don't translate from one to the other.  No matter how clearly we think we explain it or how many references of resources we show. we cannot reach you. across the barrier.  

The major impact of that is that you think you should be in charge and will attempt to take charge because you BELIEVE you are right, and nothing will change that.    Thanks. 

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3 hours ago, and-then said:

You have a right to your beliefs and you have based it off of media reports that have convinced that you are correct and those tens of millions of your neighbors are either delusional or engaged in election denial

And you have based yours on absolutely nothing.

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10 hours ago, Agent0range said:

What kind of idiot makes flat earth theory political?

that would be you.   You brought it up in a political thread.   

I won't get into a name calling match with you.

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7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

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OK, now I get it, I think.  It is a BELIEF.  I sure couldn't argue that you believe something  Beliefs don't need to be based on fact.  So we are living in two different worlds, and facts don't translate from one to the other.  No matter how clearly we think we explain it or how many references of resources we show. we cannot reach you. across the barrier.  

The major impact of that is that you think you should be in charge and will attempt to take charge because you BELIEVE you are right, and nothing will change that.    Thanks. 

A better system of voting (blockchain?) would be nice so we will KNOW rather than believe. The last thing we need is another contested election.

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8 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

For some interesting nuance, I might suggest that Greg Abbott best defends his own citizens by allowing more illegal immigration.

From the warped libertarian minds of the Cato Institute, research sure to shock every 'independent/libertarian' on this site, I present...

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

From the working paper linked therein:

So, don't bus away those migrants, Greg. They're helping dilute the crimes of your own citizens.

 

Also both legal and illegal immigration helps traditional social security. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/social-security-has-an-immigration-problem-and-it-s-getting-progressively-worse/ar-AA1mzUG2?ocid=NL_ENUS_A1_00010101_1_1

 

With the US having a declining birth rate and social security crisis, maybe we should focus making these people legal citizens instead of freaking out about them coming here.

Edited by spartan max2
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Texas had Operation Lone Star going on for almost three years now.  They have also put up miles of razor wire and obstacles.  Yet during this time frame, the situation has gotten worse.  Texas more so than other states it seems.

It's pretty obvious that all the things they are doing is ineffective to put it mildly (or just plain making it worse).

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

A better system of voting (blockchain?) would be nice so we will KNOW rather than believe. The last thing we need is another contested election.

We already know. That's what evidence is for. There is no evidence the election was stolen.

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1 hour ago, WVK said:

A better system of voting (blockchain?) would be nice so we will KNOW rather than believe. The last thing we need is another contested election.

You (and plenty of other people) don't KNOW how blockchain works and will simply be trading one system you don't understand for another. It won't help matters.

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3 hours ago, WVK said:

A better system of voting (blockchain?) would be nice so we will KNOW rather than believe. The last thing we need is another contested election.

If I understood @and-then correctly, it is a belief, not something that can be changed by facts.  If so then no block chain will ever convince someone who thinks it is all rigged.

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3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

 

Also both legal and illegal immigration helps traditional social security. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/social-security-has-an-immigration-problem-and-it-s-getting-progressively-worse/ar-AA1mzUG2?ocid=NL_ENUS_A1_00010101_1_1

 

With the US having a declining birth rate and social security crisis, maybe we should focus making these people legal citizens instead of freaking out about them coming here.

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023

 

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1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

That study you linked includes American children with immigrant parents.  Do you have a link with a study that just includes illegal immigrants?  

I also noticed it includes the budget of stuff like the border patrol which we have to pay whether illegal immigrants exist or not.  Those costs exist regardless.

Actually, looking at it, it isn't a study at all but just someone adding up various government costs and programs that could be impacted by illegals and totalled with the blame/focus entirely put on illegals.

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5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I also noticed it includes the budget of stuff like the border patrol which we have to pay whether illegal immigrants exist or not.  Those costs exist regardless.

Wouldn't the Border Patrol's budget be significantly lower in the absence of illegal immigrants?

Quote

Actually, looking at it, it isn't a study at all but just someone adding up various government costs and programs that could be impacted by illegals and totalled with the blame/focus entirely put on illegals.

And? How are they going to calculate the cost on just illegal immigrants when they're not even sure how many there are? Or how long they've been in country?

The link I provided is only a summation of the study and you'll have to click the link in the article for the PDF of the complete study. It's 91 pages long so I will not entertain a quick reply. 

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2 hours ago, Setton said:

We already know. That's what evidence is for. There is no evidence the election was stolen.

there's plenty of evidence that the vote totals in every election are not accurate. there's also no mechanism to reliably audit. this is clear when court rulings and recounts routinely affect vote totals. this can be improved if only winners and losers of elections have more foresight than transitory motivations.

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34 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

If I understood @and-then correctly, it is a belief, not something that can be changed by facts.  If so then no block chain will ever convince someone who thinks it is all rigged.

there are ways to accomplish this with de-identified keys and real time status updates (tallies and non-identifiable meta-data).

the only way to do it currently is to repeat the following "there's no evidence..." which as you can see might be less than reassuring to a suspicious person. but sometimes i feel like that's part of the fun...

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18 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Wouldn't the Border Patrol's budget be significantly lower in the absence of illegal immigrants?

And? How are they going to calculate the cost on just illegal immigrants when they're not even sure how many there are? Or how long they've been in country?

The link I provided is only a summation of the study and you'll have to click the link in the article for the PDF of the complete study. It's 91 pages long so I will not entertain a quick reply. 

I read the PDF.  It's full of disclaimers like you said above where they don't know how many there are so they are just making up numbers.  Most of the costs that I see are for American kids with immigrant parents- Particularly the education, welfare, and medical costs.  As illegal immigrants (as stated in the PDF) don't qualify.

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14 STATES SUPPORT TEXAS BORDER EFFORTS

Arkansas,Florida, Iowa, Idaho, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming. These states have deployed personnel and resources, demonstrating their support for Texas' border security efforts under Operation Lone Star over the past month.

Source: Texas Insider

 

Edited by Zebra3
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2 hours ago, DayoOlabisi said:

there's plenty of evidence that the vote totals in every election are not accurate. there's also no mechanism to reliably audit. this is clear when court rulings and recounts routinely affect vote totals. this can be improved if only winners and losers of elections have more foresight than transitory motivations.

Show it then. Like everyone else who shares your delusion has failed to do.

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7 minutes ago, Setton said:

Show it then. Like everyone else who shares your delusion has failed to do.

You people aren't stupid.  Eventually you'll understand that your beliefs do not compel others to believe the same.  You sound like a toddler throwing a tantrum.  It doesn't change a thing.  Watch what happens come November.  Hissy fits are optional.  You can claim a win, your candidates can even be sworn in, but no one can compel obedience to a government that is considered illegitimate by millions.  If you think they can, explain how it would be done...

Edited by and-then
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2 minutes ago, and-then said:

You people aren't stupid.  Eventually you'll understand that your beliefs do not compel others to believe the same.  You sound like a toddler throwing a tantrum.  It doesn't change a thing.  Watch what happens come November.  Hissy fits are optional.  You can claim a win, your candidates can even be sworn in, but no one can compel obedience to a government that is considered illegitimate by millions.  If you think they can, explain how it would be done...

If trump loses but you think he should have won what will you do?

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9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If trump loses but you think he should have won what will you do?

That will be my last federal vote.  I will look for like-minded patriots who want to save what's left of our freedom by peaceful civil disobedience.  I will refuse obedience to DC, whatever that costs me.  I truly believe that enough people will be motivated to shrug off DC's tyranny that they will either compromise or they'll be rendered impotent due to millions simply telling them to eff off.

To be clear, I don't believe it will matter who wins.  Neither side trusts the outcome any longer.  Post-factual, post-truth reality, remember?  People will choose who they think won and they will behave accordingly.  Belief...MATTERS...

Edited by and-then
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13 minutes ago, and-then said:

That will be my last federal vote.  I will look for like-minded patriots who want to save what's left of our freedom by peaceful civil disobedience.  I will refuse obedience to DC, whatever that costs me.  I truly believe that enough people will be motivated to shrug off DC's tyranny that they will either compromise or they'll be rendered impotent due to millions simply telling them to eff off.

To be clear, I don't believe it will matter who wins.  Neither side trusts the outcome any longer.  Post-factual, post-truth reality, remember?  People will choose who they think won and they will behave accordingly.  Belief...MATTERS...

Civil disobedience such as not paying your taxes?  I'm just asking because I don't see what anyone can do short of moving to Mexico and abandoning their citizenship.

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