Brexit - The Positives

[Ozymandias]

Poor Pellinore is regularly accused of focussing on the negatives of Brexit and, in truth, since the UK left the EU we hear of nothing else and, as one MP quipped, it feels like 'we are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic'. Even Rees-Mogg, the British government's Minister for Brexit Opportunities has characterised the full implementation of Brexit as 'an act of self-harm'.

So, in the interests of balance, what are the positives?

Edited January 27, 2024 by Ozymandias

[Destination Unknown]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Poor Pellinore is regularly accused of focussing on the negatives of Brexit and, in truth, since the UK left the EU we hear of nothing else and, as one MP quipped, it feels like 'we are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic'. Even Rees-Mogg, the British government's Minister for Brexit Opportunities has characterised the full implementation of Brexit as 'an act of self-harm'.

So, in the interests of balance, what are the positives?

How about this positive news from only 2 days ago that "poor" pellinore could have just as easily focused on regarding British factories building more than ONE MILLION vehicles last year for the first time since before the pandemic? 🤔

Quote: "UK 'back in the game' after one million vehicles produced in 2023"

"UK vehicle production in 2023 hit one million units for the first time since pre-Covid 2019, with multibillion-pound EV investment from major car makers pushing the UK “back in the game”, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said today." 👇👇👇👇

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-manufacturing/uk-back-game-after-one-million-vehicles-produced-2023

Edited January 27, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Destination Unknown]

Or how about this from just 3 days ago?

"Sterling sparkles as UK business activity overtakes euro zone" 👇👇👇👇

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sterling-sparkles-uk-business-activity-overtakes-euro-zone-2024-01-24/

 

Meanwhile, in the EU:

"Consumers losing confidence in the EU economy" 👇👇👇👇

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/23/consumers-losing-confidence-in-the-eu-economy

Edited January 27, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Destination Unknown]

Or this?

According to new data from Companies House, 436,000 new businesses were registered in the UK between January and June 2023.

That's 34,000 more new businesses set up in the first half of 2023 alone than the 402,000 in the same time period in 2022 (which was a record year for UK company formations by the way, when 805,141 companies were formed, which itself was also an increase on the previous record, set in 2020, when 780,766 companies were started). 👇👇👇👇

https://uktechnews.co.uk/2023/09/15/436000-new-businesses-registered-in-the-first-half-of-2023/

 

Meanwhile, in the EU, there were more than 55,000 corporate bankruptcies in France in 2023, which is up 34.4% from 2022, and is the highest figure since 2017. 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.azernews.az/region/219964.html

Edited January 27, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Destination Unknown]

The first formal round of negotiations on an updated and improved FTA (from the one replicated from the EU) between the UK and South Korea took place in Seoul, S. Korea, earlier this week (week commencing Monday 22nd January 2024).

A future-proofed FTA, fit for the technology driven landscape of the coming decades, will pave the way for new digital trade. Digital trade is rapidly becoming dominant, with 79% of UK services trade with South Korea now delivered digitally, and the current (inferior, EU-negotiated) FTA does not include digital chapters that reflect the modern economy.

(Note: These negotiations could never have taken place whilst we were EU members, because an individual EU member cannot negotiate its own individual bilateral trade deal with a non-member country, as the EU negotiates trade deals on behalf of all of its members, which may or may not suit every single member, with the very real possibility of having to compromise in order to please 27 other players as well).

Negotiations will also focus on increasing technology sharing, defence cooperation and supporting regional security at sea, on land and in cyberspace.

The launch of negotiations comes as South Korean businesses commit more than £21 billion of new investment into the UK, backing renewable energy and infrastructure projects across the country, and a further £3bn worth of trade. The trade and investment boost will also support more than 1,500 highly skilled jobs. 👇👇👇👇

https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=210070

Edited January 27, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

10 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Poor Pellinore is regularly accused of focussing on the negatives of Brexit and, in truth, since the UK left the EU we hear of nothing else and, as one MP quipped, it feels like 'we are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic'. Even Rees-Mogg, the British government's Minister for Brexit Opportunities has characterised the full implementation of Brexit as 'an act of self-harm'.

So, in the interests of balance, what are the positives?

Bearing in mind you live in Ireland what do you know of life in the UK?

Things are fine here, there are some issues as with everywhere else at the moment with food prices, but that is because of sanctions on Russia not Brexit. Other than that we are doing fine. Same old, same old. Except we have slightly higher growth in our GDP than we would have had if we had stayed in the EU.

The real difference will take 20 years to emerge and will come from piece mail decisions we wouldn`t have been able to make under EU legislation.

 

[Ozymandias]

On 1/27/2024 at 12:10 PM, Destination Unknown said:

Quote: "UK 'back in the game' after one million vehicles produced in 2023"

Uk hit one million units since pre-Covid - pre-Brexit, more like!

‘Back in the game’! I don't think so. Car production was 1.75 million in 2016 and since then it has consistently declined to 0.77 million in 2022. If it has broken a million units last year that is still only 43% of what it was pre-Brexit. The UK car industry has not climbed out of the hole it fell into back then

On 1/27/2024 at 12:33 PM, Destination Unknown said:

Or how about this from just 3 days ago?

"Sterling sparkles as UK business activity overtakes euro zone" 👇👇👇👇

Sterling sparkles! It hasn’t recovered against the Euro since it fell off a cliff in 2016 dropping from £1.4 to the Euro to below £1.2 to the Euro, that’s a minimum fall in value of around 14% at least, and it has remained below 1.2 to this day, bumping along on the bottom of its value between £1.1 and £1.2 to the Euro, averaging between 14% and 20% of its pre-Brexit value. Sterling fell off a cliff in 2016 and has not recovered. Today’s exchange rate against the Euro, £1.17, is still over 16% below its pre-Brexit value.

With such a loss of value compared to the Euro and inflation running so high, the consequences for the cost of living in the UK are obvious. Everything sourced by the UK from the EU costs more.

On 1/27/2024 at 12:46 PM, Destination Unknown said:

Or this!?

According to new data from Companies House, 436,000 new businesses were registered in the UK between January and June 2023.

So, too, have insolvencies in the UK hit a record high. And these up-surges in company creation have followed similar record slumps following Brexit.  And most of these new companies were created in the greater London area compared to the rest of the UK. So much for levelling up!. One wonders, also, how many of these creations are smoke-and-mirror entities.

New company formations are no guarantee of economic health or vibrancy. The real value of wages are down and have not recovered, and, most telling, is that UK productivity has flatlined since 2016. Again, the patient does not seem to be recovering.

On 1/27/2024 at 2:30 PM, Destination Unknown said:

The first formal round of negotiations on an updated and improved FTA (from the one replicated from the EU) between the UK and South Korea took place in Seoul, S. Korea, earlier this week (week commencing Monday 22nd January 2024).

A future-proofed FTA, fit for the technology driven landscape of the coming decades, will pave the way for new digital trade.

Trade negotiations are just that, negotiations. They mean nothing until a trade agreement is signed and, more often than not, one or other of the parties walks away. Witness Canada doing so recently and the US on a number of occasions before that. Even if you get a deal, very iften it’s not what it was cracked up to be. UK aspirations regarding trade with South Korea, remain that for now - aspiration.

Foreign investment in the UK has dipped since Brexit and has not recovered either to pre-Brexit levels.

17 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

Bearing in mind you live in Ireland what do you know of life in the UK?

Not living in the UK is no bar on commenting. To paraphrase your own post: ‘bearing in mind you live in the UK what do you know of life in the EU?’

Brexit has done more damage that good to the UK. What positives has it delivered that could be said to outweight the negatives?

[Destination Unknown]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Uk hit one million units since pre-Covid - pre-Brexit, more like!

‘Back in the game’! I don't think so. Car production was 1.75 million in 2016 and since then it has consistently declined to 0.77 million in 2022. If it has broken a million units last year that is still only 43% of what it was pre-Brexit. The UK car industry has not climbed out of the hole it fell into back then

Sterling sparkles! It hasn’t recovered against the Euro since it fell off a cliff in 2016 dropping from £1.4 to the Euro to below £1.2 to the Euro, that’s a minimum fall in value of around 14% at least, and it has remained below 1.2 to this day, bumping along on the bottom of its value between £1.1 and £1.2 to the Euro, averaging between 14% and 20% of its pre-Brexit value. Sterling fell off a cliff in 2016 and has not recovered. Today’s exchange rate against the Euro, £1.17, is still over 16% below its pre-Brexit value.

With such a loss of value compared to the Euro and inflation running so high, the consequences for the cost of living in the UK are obvious. Everything sourced by the UK from the EU costs more.

So, too, have insolvencies in the UK hit a record high. And these up-surges in company creation have followed similar record slumps following Brexit.  And most of these new companies were created in the greater London area compared to the rest of the UK. So much for levelling up!. One wonders, also, how many of these creations are smoke-and-mirror entities.

New company formations are no guarantee of economic health or vibrancy. The real value of wages are down and have not recovered, and, most telling, is that UK productivity has flatlined since 2016. Again, the patient does not seem to be recovering.

Trade negotiations are just that, negotiations. They mean nothing until a trade agreement is signed and, more often than not, one or other of the parties walks away. Witness Canada doing so recently and the US on a number of occasions before that. Even if you get a deal, very iften it’s not what it was cracked up to be. UK aspirations regarding trade with South Korea, remain that for now - aspiration.

Foreign investment in the UK has dipped since Brexit and has not recovered either to pre-Brexit levels.

Not living in the UK is no bar on commenting. To paraphrase your own post: ‘bearing in mind you live in the UK what do you know of life in the EU?’

Brexit has done more damage that good to the UK. What positives has it delivered that could be said to outweight the negatives?

Meanwhile, in your EU vassal country Ireland: "Recession confirmed after Ireland’s GDP shrank in 2023" whilst annoyingly for you the non-EU UK isn't. - ooops. 😂😂😂😂😂👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/recession-confirmed-after-irelands-gdp-shrank-in-2023/a2123065750.html

[itsnotoutthere]

17 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Uk hit one million units since pre-Covid - pre-Brexit, more like!

‘Back in the game’! I don't think so. Car production was 1.75 million in 2016 and since then it has consistently declined to 0.77 million in 2022. If it has broken a million units last year that is still only 43% of what it was pre-Brexit. The UK car industry has not climbed out of the hole it fell into back then

Sterling sparkles! It hasn’t recovered against the Euro since it fell off a cliff in 2016 dropping from £1.4 to the Euro to below £1.2 to the Euro, that’s a minimum fall in value of around 14% at least, and it has remained below 1.2 to this day, bumping along on the bottom of its value between £1.1 and £1.2 to the Euro, averaging between 14% and 20% of its pre-Brexit value. Sterling fell off a cliff in 2016 and has not recovered. Today’s exchange rate against the Euro, £1.17, is still over 16% below its pre-Brexit value.

With such a loss of value compared to the Euro and inflation running so high, the consequences for the cost of living in the UK are obvious. Everything sourced by the UK from the EU costs more.

So, too, have insolvencies in the UK hit a record high. And these up-surges in company creation have followed similar record slumps following Brexit.  And most of these new companies were created in the greater London area compared to the rest of the UK. So much for levelling up!. One wonders, also, how many of these creations are smoke-and-mirror entities.

New company formations are no guarantee of economic health or vibrancy. The real value of wages are down and have not recovered, and, most telling, is that UK productivity has flatlined since 2016. Again, the patient does not seem to be recovering.

Trade negotiations are just that, negotiations. They mean nothing until a trade agreement is signed and, more often than not, one or other of the parties walks away. Witness Canada doing so recently and the US on a number of occasions before that. Even if you get a deal, very iften it’s not what it was cracked up to be. UK aspirations regarding trade with South Korea, remain that for now - aspiration.

Foreign investment in the UK has dipped since Brexit and has not recovered either to pre-Brexit levels.

Not living in the UK is no bar on commenting. To paraphrase your own post: ‘bearing in mind you live in the UK what do you know of life in the EU?’

Brexit has done more damage that good to the UK. What positives has it delivered that could be said to outweight the negatives?

So you didn't start this thread to talk about the positives. Thought so.

[Destination Unknown]

More positive UK/Brexit news that pellinore will obviously ignore whilst he wets himself silly worrying about the "possibility" of a future where he is unable to buy Parma hams and Spanish chorizo sausages in his local Waitrose - (Which is strangely something I can do without any problems when I go and visit family in the USA, even though the USA doesn't even have a trade deal with the EU 🤔). 

The Taiwanese Ambassador to the UK, Vincent Chin-Hsiang Yao, has confirmed that his country hopes to make Britain its biggest trading partner in Europe - stating that Brexit has allowed the UK more leeway in foreign and trade policy - (so much for the ridiculous Remoaner claim that the UK being in the EU meant that overseas countries saw us as being "the gateway to Europe", when if that's really what they were interested in then why not just cut out the middle man and go direct anyway? 🤦

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/5086861

 

Meanwhile, in the ever increasingly authoritarian EU, nothing to see here. Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties. So much for the Remoaner claim that the EU is a democratic, rules based organisation. 🤔

Quote: "Leaked document reveals EU considering cutting off funding to Hungary over Ukraine aid veto." 👇👇👇👇

https://kyivindependent.com/financial-times-leaked-document-reveals-eu-considering-cutting-off-funding-to-hungary-over-ukraine-aid-veto/

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Ozymandias]

4 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

So you didn't start this thread to talk about the positives. Thought so.

No! In my view, there are none.

I notice that you haven't talked about any positives either. 

Now's your chance.

[Ozymandias]

17 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Meanwhile, in your EU vassal country Ireland: "Recession confirmed after Ireland’s GDP shrank in 2023" whilst annoyingly for you the non-EU UK isn't. - ooops. 😂😂😂😂😂👇👇👇👇👇

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/recession-confirmed-after-irelands-gdp-shrank-in-2023/a2123065750.html

Meh!

Ireland didn't Brexit and is experiencing the normal cyclic ups and downs of all economies, including the EU's.

The UK, on the other hand, is not just experiencing the same ups and downs, but the downs have been greatly exacerbated by Brexit and she still struggles to overcome them.   

[Ozymandias]

4 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

More positive UK/Brexit news .... 

The Taiwanese Ambassador ... hopes to make Britain its biggest trading partner in Europe - stating that Brexit has allowed the UK more leeway in foreign and trade policy -....

I suppose hope is positive - it springs eternal. Meanwhile, have you any concrete positives to show for Brexit.

4 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Meanwhile, in the ever increasingly authoritarian EU, nothing to see here. Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties. So much for the Remoaner claim that the EU is a democratic, rules based organisation. 🤔

Quote: "Leaked document reveals EU considering cutting off funding to Hungary over Ukraine aid veto."

If Hungary don't get rid of Orban, I hope the EU gets rid of Hungary. Why am I not surprised that you favour the likes of Orban over the EU. 

You have had a go at Ireland and the EU's relationship with Hungary. Neither have anything to do with the topic of this thread. Neither are have any relevance to possible Brexit positives.

Have you any genuine examples of concrete Brexit positives that have benefitted the UK?

[itsnotoutthere]

29 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

No! In my view, there are none.

I notice that you haven't talked about any positives either. 

Now's your chance.

So I was right then. Ta.

[Duke Wellington]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:08 AM, Ozymandias said:

Poor Pellinore is regularly accused of focussing on the negatives of Brexit and, in truth, since the UK left the EU we hear of nothing else and, as one MP quipped, it feels like 'we are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic'. Even Rees-Mogg, the British government's Minister for Brexit Opportunities has characterised the full implementation of Brexit as 'an act of self-harm'.

So, in the interests of balance, what are the positives?

Lets do three of the positives:

1. The UK applies liberal economics creating one of the worlds most innovative economies. Its the economic model we have used for centuries and works for us. Other countries in the EU have their own economic models. We no longer need to battle it out in Brussels hoping the majority will vote for policies optimised for our economic model. We can just go ahead and do what we like now.

2. The EU punishes its strongest members by making them pay to prop up and develop its weakest. This `redistribution of wealth` is in effect a stealth commie tax. I`m pretty sure that Germany, France, and Italy, would be in much stronger positions if they could spend all of their own money on themselves. In the UK, now we can!!!

3. There are many more benefits. I could post another political or economic one, but instead will go for one that brings me a great deal of pleasure. Thats right, we get to give the Franco-Prussian empire the bird. Up yours Franco-Prussians, you have tried for centuries to conquer us Brits and we have escaped your evil plans once again!!!

[Destination Unknown]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Meh!

Ireland didn't Brexit and is experiencing the normal cyclic ups and downs of all economies, including the EU's.

The UK, on the other hand, is not just experiencing the same ups and downs, but the downs have been greatly exacerbated by Brexit and she still struggles to overcome them.   

That obviously must be why EU vassal Ireland is in a recession whilst annoyingly for you the non-EU UK isn't.

Come off it Ozy, you know as well as I do that if it was the UK that had gone into recession you would be jumping up and down for joy gleefully sneering claiming that it was all because of Brexit wouldn't you, and don't even bother to lie and tell me that you wouldn't, because we both know that you would.

Dear oh dear, that's the lamest excuse yet for the obvious downturn in your beloved EU, surely you can do better than that.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Destination Unknown]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

I suppose hope is positive - it springs eternal. Meanwhile, have you any concrete positives to show for Brexit.

If Hungary don't get rid of Orban, I hope the EU gets rid of Hungary. Why am I not surprised that you favour the likes of Orban over the EU. 

You have had a go at Ireland and the EU's relationship with Hungary. Neither have anything to do with the topic of this thread. Neither are have any relevance to possible Brexit positives.

Have you any genuine examples of concrete Brexit positives that have benefitted the UK?

Where did I say that I favour Orbán over the EU Ozy? 🤔

Ahhh yes, that's right, I didn't. What I am doing is pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of the EU for punishing Orbán for doing what he is perfectly entitled to do under the EU's own Treaties.

If they can do that to Hungary and get away with it, who's to say they won't try it again with another EU vassal (such as Ireland) should they vote against something they disagree with? 🤔

Why am I not surprised you obviously favour authoritarianism over democracy, after all, you have done nothing but have a go at the UK for no other reason than it's own democratic decision to Leave the increasingly authoritarian EU.

And yes, I've already given you a bunch of examples above, however, one of the biggest benefits of leaving the increasingly authoritarian EU is that we are no longer paying vast sums of UK taxpayers money (MY money) to Brussels in order to help prop up the economies of EU vassals that blatantly hate us anyway (such as Ireland).

Edited January 29, 2024 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

Look at poor Italy having to sell its post office service to raise some funds due to its 3 trillion euro debt.

Dont forget that the ECB sets interest rates, inflating a debt away is banned, and so is defaulting on it. At what stage will Ireland have a debt crises @Ozymandias. The UK gifted you money for the last one to build bridges with Ireland. At some point there will be another, it seems to be a once or twice a century event for most countries. Either through war, banking crises, plagues, or other things.

Good luck cause you are screwed if you are still in the EU when your next hits!

[Ozymandias]

7 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

So I was right then. Ta.

You’re welcome. I have no problem with you being right, but can you say anything positive regarding the benefits of Brexit? How have you benefitted in a positive way as a result of Brexit?

6 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

Lets do three of the positives:

1. The UK applies liberal economics creating one of the worlds most innovative economies. Its the economic model we have used for centuries and works for us. Other countries in the EU have their own economic models. We no longer need to battle it out in Brussels hoping the majority will vote for policies optimised for our economic model. We can just go ahead and do what we like now.

1. OK, you can do what you like now. I accept that. So, how have you used your Brexit freedom to bring real advantage to the people of the UK, including yourself? What positives have you personally gained from Brexit?

6 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

2. The EU punishes its strongest members by making them pay to prop up and develop its weakest. This `redistribution of wealth` is in effect a stealth commie tax. I`m pretty sure that Germany, France, and Italy, would be in much stronger positions if they could spend all of their own money on themselves. In the UK, now we can!!!

2. If you can spend all your money on the UK what have you done with it?  All the spending promises the Conservatives made never happened (and won’t bore you with a litany of examples). In fact, the only people to benefit from tax-payers money not going to the EU are the government’s cronies (I won’t bore you with a litany of examples).

6 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

3. There are many more benefits. I could post another political or economic one, but instead will go for one that brings me a great deal of pleasure. Thats right, we get to give the Franco-Prussian empire the bird. Up yours Franco-Prussians, you have tried for centuries to conquer us Brits and we have escaped your evil plans once again!!!

3. The Franco-Prussian empire does not exist, and never did. This is just childish and does not warrant a response.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

That obviously must be why EU vassal Ireland is in a recession whilst annoyingly for you the non-EU UK isn't.

Ireland is not a vassal of the EU. I explained this to you before as simply as I possibly could, but obviously I am not appealing to logic or reason here. Say no more.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Come off it Ozy, you know as well as I do that if it was the UK that had gone into recession you would be jumping up and down for joy gleefully sneering claiming that it was all because of Brexit wouldn't you, and don't even bother to lie and tell me that you wouldn't, because we both know that you would.

No, I have no issue with the UK. My issue is, and always has been, with Brexiteers.  It started when the Brexit movement began and Ireland had to take a stand to defend its own interests and the workings of the Good Friday Agreement. Before that, the UK and Ireland were best buddies and our relationship had never been so good. I remember the Queen’s visit to Ireland in 2011 and she did wonders for the relationship between our two countries. But your Brexiteers very quickly destroyed all that goodwill. You had UK government ministers like Priti Patel publicly threatening to starve Ireland for daring to want the EU’s full backing on the issue! And the outrageous jingoistic comments by other UK Brexiteer politicians as well as people on these boards  like Stevewinn, Keithisco, etc, and they are still being made today.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Dear oh dear, that's the lamest excuse yet for the obvious downturn in your beloved EU, surely you can do better than that.

No, I’m afraid not! Blaming Ireland’s ups and downs on normal international economic cycles is the best I can do. When we are on a downward trajectory, it is never permanent and things will always pick up again. It’s the way of the economic world.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Where did I say that I favour Orbán over the EU Ozy? 🤔

You didn’t just say it, you did it! You took Hungary’s part against the EU saying: 'Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties.' Is that not favouring Hungary over the EU? Blow me down, if it isn't!

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

If they can do that to Hungary and get away with it, who's to say they won't try it again with another EU vassal (such as Ireland) should they vote against something they disagree with? 🤔

So, Hungary, a member of the EU, is not a vassal state. It does it's own thing. And if Hungary, as a non-vassal state within the EU, manages unilaterally to prevent the EU’s aid package getting to the Ukraine, guess what?! Go on, have a guess! The individual non-vassal EU states, like Ireland, can and likely will vote their own national aid packages to the Ukeraine instead.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Why am I not surprised you obviously favour authoritarianism over democracy, after all, you have done nothing but have a go at the UK for no other reason than it's own democratic decision to Leave the increasingly authoritarian EU.

Well, it was stupid, wasn't it? There are no Brexit benefits of any real consequence, only disadvantages and damage. And you are still struggling to get out of the hole Brexit put you in. And Pellinore is not being negative. I actually think he is the kind of patriot the UK needs to sort itself out. The UK needed Brexiteers like a hole in the head.

3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

And yes, I've already given you a bunch of examples above, however, one of the biggest benefits of leaving the increasingly authoritarian EU is that we are no longer paying vast sums of UK taxpayers money (MY money) to Brussels in order to help prop up the economies of EU vassals that blatantly hate us anyway (such as Ireland).

Well, your government has been criminally wasting YOUR money. Ireland has been a net contributor since 2013. And we are happy to be in that position. We don't take free money from the UK and never have. We received EU regional development funding at one time, and still do, just like every other member of the EU. 

2 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

Dont forget that the ECB sets interest rates, inflating a debt away is banned, and so is defaulting on it. At what stage will Ireland have a debt crises @Ozymandias. The UK gifted you money for the last one to build bridges with Ireland. At some point there will be another, it seems to be a once or twice a century event for most countries. Either through war, banking crises, plagues, or other things.

The UK never gifted us money. In December 2010, the UK agreed to provide a bilateral loan of £3.2 billion to Ireland and stated it was in their own interests to give it. The UK borrowed the money on the international markets at a lower interest rate than she charged Ireland for it. 

As of 31 March 2021, Ireland has repaid the full amount borrowed: £3,226,960,000 or £3.227 billion.

The UK earned interest on the loan. The total interest Ireland paid equalled £605,669,117 or £0.6 billion. 

I thank you for giving us the loan and you did reduce the rate you charged, but the facts are that you made money on the back of our financial misery. I wonder did you build a hospital with the interest charged, or a high speed rail line, or did it end up in a crony's back pocket. Personally, I hope you used the money well.

Ireland_loan_statutory_report_April_2021.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Ireland also borrowed money from Sweden, Denmark, and the IMF. All of these loans have been repaid in full.

2 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

Good luck cause you are screwed if you are still in the EU when your next hits!

Thanks.

[Duke Wellington]

54 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

You’re welcome. I have no problem with you being right, but can you say anything positive regarding the benefits of Brexit? How have you benefitted in a positive way as a result of Brexit?

1. OK, you can do what you like now. I accept that. So, how have you used your Brexit freedom to bring real advantage to the people of the UK, including yourself? What positives have you personally gained from Brexit?

2. If you can spend all your money on the UK what have you done with it?  All the spending promises the Conservatives made never happened (and won’t bore you with a litany of examples). In fact, the only people to benefit from tax-payers money not going to the EU are the government’s cronies (I won’t bore you with a litany of examples).

3. The Franco-Prussian empire does not exist, and never did. This is just childish and does not warrant a response.

Ireland is not a vassal of the EU. I explained this to you before as simply as I possibly could, but obviously I am not appealing to logic or reason here. Say no more.

No, I have no issue with the UK. My issue is, and always has been, with Brexiteers.  It started when the Brexit movement began and Ireland had to take a stand to defend its own interests and the workings of the Good Friday Agreement. Before that, the UK and Ireland were best buddies and our relationship had never been so good. I remember the Queen’s visit to Ireland in 2011 and she did wonders for the relationship between our two countries. But your Brexiteers very quickly destroyed all that goodwill. You had UK government ministers like Priti Patel publicly threatening to starve Ireland for daring to want the EU’s full backing on the issue! And the outrageous jingoistic comments by other UK Brexiteer politicians as well as people on these boards  like Stevewinn, Keithisco, etc, and they are still being made today.

No, I’m afraid not! Blaming Ireland’s ups and downs on normal international economic cycles is the best I can do. When we are on a downward trajectory, it is never permanent and things will always pick up again. It’s the way of the economic world.

You didn’t just say it, you did it! You took Hungary’s part against the EU saying: 'Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties.' Is that not favouring Hungary over the EU? Blow me down, if it isn't!

So, Hungary, a member of the EU, is not a vassal state. It does it's own thing. And if Hungary, as a non-vassal state within the EU, manages unilaterally to prevent the EU’s aid package getting to the Ukraine, guess what?! Go on, have a guess! The individual non-vassal EU states, like Ireland, can and likely will vote their own national aid packages to the Ukeraine instead.

Well, it was stupid, wasn't it? There are no Brexit benefits of any real consequence, only disadvantages and damage. And you are still struggling to get out of the hole Brexit put you in. And Pellinore is not being negative. I actually think he is the kind of patriot the UK needs to sort itself out. The UK needed Brexiteers like a hole in the head.

Well, your government has been criminally wasting YOUR money. Ireland has been a net contributor since 2013. And we are happy to be in that position. We don't take free money from the UK and never have. We received EU regional development funding at one time, and still do, just like every other member of the EU. 

The UK never gifted us money. In December 2010, the UK agreed to provide a bilateral loan of £3.2 billion to Ireland and stated it was in their own interests to give it. The UK borrowed the money on the international markets at a lower interest rate than she charged Ireland for it. 

As of 31 March 2021, Ireland has repaid the full amount borrowed: £3,226,960,000 or £3.227 billion.

The UK earned interest on the loan. The total interest Ireland paid equalled £605,669,117 or £0.6 billion. 

I thank you for giving us the loan and you did reduce the rate you charged, but the facts are that you made money on the back of our financial misery. I wonder did you build a hospital with the interest charged, or a high speed rail line, or did it end up in a crony's back pocket. Personally, I hope you used the money well.

Ireland_loan_statutory_report_April_2021.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Ireland also borrowed money from Sweden, Denmark, and the IMF. All of these loans have been repaid in full.

Thanks.

I personally have gained money from Brexit, a lot of money, and guess what? Thats right, I`m a blue blooded Tory lol.

Of course the Franco-Prussian empire exists, they are the two most important countries in the EU, its their project, they control and influence the others, the others who are all their vassals. Ireland has gone from being British, to independent British, to being an insignificant EU vassal. Have a look at your ancestors who fought to be different from the rest of the UK and consider how they have thrown away their lives now those amongst you have surrendered to the EU.

The UK has no issue with the Good Friday Agreement, its the EU that would force Ireland to violate the treaty. One way you could have your Unified Ireland is if its a Unified Ireland that is a member of the UK. Come home, join the rest of your kind, we are all related on these islands.

The EU treats Hungary like its a vassal. Hungary wants rid of the insane and unscientific gender identity politics, it wants a normal healthy society based on Christian values. It should be taking into concerns Russia because they exist nearby. For all of this, there are calls within the EU to kick them out for daring to want to do whats best for them. Thats how one behaves towards a vassal. Its called coercion. You will think, act, and believe, as we do, or bye bye.

You are being negative about Brexit as is @pellinore. There is not one legitimate criticism of us leaving the EU. You both want to take every single distortion from pro-EU websites as evidence, but nothing stacks up. Britain is doing just fine outside the EU, and would be doing about 0.5% of GDP worse if we were still in it. Hence the reason why there is no recession here. Just look at Germany, its industry is imploding.

I propose CANIZUKUS. The `I` is Ireland and the `US is America`. Let our own kind come back together, to make our own version of the EU, but one which is far less imposing on sovereignty.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Electric Scooter

[pellinore]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:08 AM, Ozymandias said:

Poor Pellinore is regularly accused of focussing on the negatives of Brexit and, in truth, since the UK left the EU we hear of nothing else and, as one MP quipped, it feels like 'we are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic'. Even Rees-Mogg, the British government's Minister for Brexit Opportunities has characterised the full implementation of Brexit as 'an act of self-harm'.

So, in the interests of balance, what are the positives?

Jacob Rees Mogg was appointed as Minister of Brexit Opportunities last year to spell out the positives. He wrote an article in the Sun newspaper to canvas popular ideas.

He eventually came up with (and I'm not making any of this up):

1. The motorway signs in the Dartford Crossing are measured in meters. We could change this to yards.

2. We can have a crown icon on a beer glass (we already could and do have).

3. We could change our measurements from metric to Imperial. His department set up an internet poll (with slewed questions) -97.3% wanted to keep metric. To save face, he then proposed we could sell wine in pint bottles- something no wine producer wants to do, and no wine consumer wants to buy.

The post of Brexit Opportunities Minister was dissolved after just 8 months.

Here's Moggy explaining to the viewers of GBeebies how stupid leaving the Single Market was:

 

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by pellinore

[godnodog]

14 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

 

Meanwhile, in the ever increasingly authoritarian EU, nothing to see here. Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties. So much for the Remoaner claim that the EU is a democratic, rules based organisation. 🤔

Quote: "Leaked document reveals EU considering cutting off funding to Hungary over Ukraine aid veto." 👇👇👇👇

https://kyivindependent.com/financial-times-leaked-document-reveals-eu-considering-cutting-off-funding-to-hungary-over-ukraine-aid-veto/

 

wtf? more authoritarian??? were you high when you wrote this?

Orban is an authoritarian prime minister, and his government has been blocking the EU and doing blackmail, the EU should have removed Hungary rights months ago.

[Duke Wellington]

17 minutes ago, godnodog said:

wtf? more authoritarian??? were you high when you wrote this?

Orban is an authoritarian prime minister, and his government has been blocking the EU and doing blackmail, the EU should have removed Hungary rights months ago.

How bizarre, claiming the EU is not authoritarian yet promoting the removal of Hungarian rights.

[Destination Unknown]

2 hours ago, godnodog said:

wtf? more authoritarian??? were you high when you wrote this?

Orban is an authoritarian prime minister, and his government has been blocking the EU and doing blackmail, the EU should have removed Hungary rights months ago.

Orban is just using the mechanisms already built into the EU's Treaties, how is that in any way "blackmail"?

We're constantly being told that nothing can be agreed until all members agree, but you obviously seem to think that shouldn't apply when it comes to Hungary, so who is really being authoritarian? 🤔

[Destination Unknown]

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Ireland is not a vassal of the EU. I explained this to you before as simply as I possibly could, but obviously I am not appealing to logic or reason here. Say no more.

Errrm, yes it is, I explained this to you before as simply as I possibly could, but obviously I am not appealing to logic or reason here.

The Irish aren't even using their own currency anymore, they've replaced it with the euro, so your monetary policy and interest rates aren't set by Ireland, they're set by the 'European Central Bank', therefore EU vassal Ireland has zero control over its own currency, which is one of the basic foundations of actually being an independent nation in the first place.

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

No, I have no issue with the UK. My issue is, and always has been, with Brexiteers.

Oh, so you just have an issue with people that just happen to have a different opinion to you about the EU and don't like the direction it has taken. Not exactly a fan of democracy are you really. Say no more.

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

It started when the Brexit movement began and Ireland had to take a stand to defend its own interests and the workings of the Good Friday Agreement. Before that, the UK and Ireland were best buddies and our relationship had never been so good. I remember the Queen’s visit to Ireland in 2011 and she did wonders for the relationship between our two countries. But your Brexiteers very quickly destroyed all that goodwill.

Brexit hasn't caused the an issue with the 'Good Friday Agreement' at all, the EU has. Even Barmier and that complete and utter EU federalist maniac Verhoffhishead were openly discussing ways to weaponise the 'Good Friday Agreement' in the BBC documentary "Brexit: Behind Closed Doors", because in their totally irrational minds a threat to peace on the island of Ireland should be the price the UK "pays" for even daring to leave their precious little club. 👇👇👇👇

The real truth is, your masters in Brussels decided to use the Island of Ireland as a political football to be kicked around whenever it suits them in order to achieve what they want, with absolutely zero thoughts to the people in Ireland. And you are actually defending them. Well more fool you.

The EU is playing with fire in Ireland and I utterly despise them for it, but it just proves to me the sort of people they are, totally power driven, and they do not care one jot for Ireland or N Ireland, let alone the 'Good Friday Agreement', to which they were not even signatories, just added later as 'observers'.

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

You had UK government ministers like Priti Patel publicly threatening to starve Ireland for daring to want the EU’s full backing on the issue! And the outrageous jingoistic comments by other UK Brexiteer politicians as well as people on these boards  like Stevewinn, Keithisco, etc, and they are still being made today.

So a bit like when the unelected bit of the EU activated 'Article 16' of the 'N Ireland Protocol' in January 2021 and placed a hard border on the island of Ireland in order to prevent N Ireland from receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine then eh, causing a major international incident in the process, and all without telling the elected bit of the EU what they were up to. 🤔

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

No, I’m afraid not! Blaming Ireland’s ups and downs on normal international economic cycles is the best I can do. When we are on a downward trajectory, it is never permanent and things will always pick up again. It’s the way of the economic world.

Equally, blaming the UK's ups and downs on normal international economic cycles cannot be blamed on Brexit then can it, and when we are on a downward trajectory, it is never permanent and things will always pick up again. It’s the way of the economic world. You can't have it both ways. 🤔

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

You didn’t just say it, you did it! You took Hungary’s part against the EU saying: 'Just the EU plotting to destroy Hungary's economy because Hungary are doing something they are perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties.' Is that not favouring Hungary over the EU? Blow me down, if it isn't!

No, it's favouring Hungary doing what it is perfectly entitled to do within the EU's own Treaties. How is that in any way me favouring Hungary over the EU? 🤔

Ahhh yes, that's right, it isn't is it. It's actually me defending the EU's own Treaties from being abused by the unelected authoritarian regime that drew up the Treaties in the first place. 🤦

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

So, Hungary, a member of the EU, is not a vassal state.

Yes it is, it's just not as much of a vassal as Ireland is, because unlike EU vassal Ireland, at least EU vassal Hungary still has its own currency, and therefore has control over its own monetary policy and interest rates.

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Well, it was stupid, wasn't it? There are no Brexit benefits of any real consequence, only disadvantages and damage. And you are still struggling to get out of the hole Brexit put you in. And Pellinore is not being negative. I actually think he is the kind of patriot the UK needs to sort itself out. The UK needed Brexiteers like a hole in the head.

According to you it was, but that's because you're obviously an indoctrinated EU-loving Stockholm Syndrome victim who obviously quite clearly seems to think the only way is the EU way.

There are plenty of benefits to Brexit, the biggest benefit being we're now out of that wannabe federal European Superstate where we were ultimately be answerable to Brussels.

I'm not struggling to get out of any hole Brexit has put me in at all, because since we've left I've now seen massive wage increases due to the ending of the EU's free movement of cheap labour from the continent.

My wages in what was once a very well paid trade for me years ago has been stagnant for decades whilst we were in the EU, now all of a sudden I'm seeing massive pay increases that were never on the table before Brexit, so don't you even dare aim your vile hatred towards me by telling me that there are no benefits to Brexit, when there were no benefits for the normal working man by being in the EU.

And if yours and pellinore's idea of being a patriot is selling your fellow countrymen out to the EU's ideology of free movement of cheap labour from the continent so that their wages stagnate for decades is somehow "patriotic", then the UK (and Ireland) needs you two like a hole in the head.

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Well, your government has been criminally wasting YOUR money.

So what. That doesn't automatically mean that I should also be forced to accept being in a European political union that also criminally wastes MY money as well does it? 🤦

4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Ireland has been a net contributor since 2013. And we are happy to be in that position. We don't take free money from the UK and never have. We received EU regional development funding at one time, and still do, just like every other member of the EU.

So where do you think the money for this so-called "EU regional development funding" actually comes from in the first place then Ozy? 🤔

That's right, it's actually a portion of the membership fees from the net contributors to the EU's budget, which gets recycled by the EU and handed back out again, after the unelected EU bureaucrats have creamed their cut off the top.

On top of that, EU vassal Ireland has to spend this so-called "EU regional development funding" on what the EU has already decided EU vassal Ireland has to spend it on, then after that they are told they have to display that disgusting blue rag with its dismal wreath of yellow stars on it and declare that it has been "funded" by the EU - wrong, it has been funded by the net contributors to the EU's budget, whether they wanted to fund it or not.

To make it simple, here's the europhiles guide:

. First of all you give me €100.

. You then decide that you want to do a job that will cost €100, and you want my help to pay for it.

. I then tell you if you are allowed to do the job, and if it is high profile enough then I say yes.

. I give you €50 back out of the original €100 you gave me, and you pay the other €50.

. I stick my flag on it with a notice saying that I funded it.

. Congratulations: You have just paid €150 for a €100 job, whilst I have pocketed €50 of your money and everyone thinks that I paid for your job and that I am so good and so generous.

It's a nice little scam - as long as enough people are clueless enough not to understand it. That's where you come in.!!

Edited January 30, 2024 by Destination Unknown