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It’s time to face facts – we are all the poorer for Brexit | The Independent


pellinore

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The "cliff edge" was avoided because a No Deal was avoided, but Johnson still got the thinnest deal possible because of pressure from the ERG.

Things have come to a pretty pass when the most authoritative government response to new figures testifying to the negative economic impact of Brexit is to insist that everything could have been so very much worse. Thus Kemi Badenoch, the business and trade secretary, cited doom-laden forecasts of “inevitable decline”, which, she said, “have been proved false”.

And, yes, thank goodness, the economic meltdown predicted by some did not happen – quite, with a very near miss, and a political crisis, in relation to Northern Ireland. But the lack of a complete meltdown, either in the weeks immediately after the UK’s departure from the EU took effect, or in the four years since, can be only limited consolation in the light of the latest assessment.

It’s time to face facts – we are all the poorer for Brexit | The Independent (archive.org)

Edited by pellinore
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Just think, if you could turn your perseverance into something more practical you could climb Everest.

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30 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The "cliff edge" was avoided because a No Deal was avoided, but Johnson still got the thinnest deal possible because of pressure from the ERG.

Things have come to a pretty pass when the most authoritative government response to new figures testifying to the negative economic impact of Brexit is to insist that everything could have been so very much worse. Thus Kemi Badenoch, the business and trade secretary, cited doom-laden forecasts of “inevitable decline”, which, she said, “have been proved false”.

And, yes, thank goodness, the economic meltdown predicted by some did not happen – quite, with a very near miss, and a political crisis, in relation to Northern Ireland. But the lack of a complete meltdown, either in the weeks immediately after the UK’s departure from the EU took effect, or in the four years since, can be only limited consolation in the light of the latest assessment.

It’s time to face facts – we are all the poorer for Brexit | The Independent (archive.org)

It's time to face facts - no we're not. 👇👇👇👇

https://businessnewswales.com/wages-soar-by-11-in-brexit-exposed-sectors-data-finds/

Edited by Destination Unknown
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24 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The "cliff edge" was avoided because a No Deal was avoided, "but Johnson still got the thinnest deal possible" because of pressure from the ERG.

You do actually realise that the UK-EU 'Trade and Cooperation Agreement' is actually the most comprehensive FTA ever to be struck between the EU and a non-member don't you pellinore? 🤔

An FTA in which the EU describes on their own website as being one that, quote: "goes beyond traditional free trade agreements".

No other country trading with the EU has such an agreement, so if you think our FTA with the EU is, quote: "the thinnest deal possible", that isn't saying much for any of the FTA's your beloved EU has previously negotiated with other countries then is it. 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/united-kingdom_en

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Germany was the worst performing major economy last year: Germany was worst-performing major economy last year (ft.com). By my calculations its GDP shrank by more than £200 billion. Thats the holes in their gas pipeline that.

Do we really want to be tied with them? You just know the USA is going to cream off German growth adding it to its own whenever needed going forward.

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'The Independent' ....irony right there.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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I think commentators will be talking about what's happened to the German economy for years to come as high energy costs and slow domestic political change, along with the EU boat anchor, allow deindustrialisation to continue. 

German insolvencies set to rise as Covid aid ends and economy stagnates.

Restructuring experts warn that many “zombie” companies kept afloat after the coronavirus pandemic by generous government aid and a suspension of the obligation to file for bankruptcy — which caused insolvencies to drop to unusually low levels — are now collapsing.

https://www.ft.com/content/b81fff40-eee3-481c-9cde-f39282070c0e

Long Europe’s powerhouse, Germany is struggling with a potent mix of short-term and deeper structural problems that – along with a divided and seemingly ineffectual government – have prompted economists to talk of the “sick man of Europe”.

The IMF predicts Germany will be the only G7 economy to have shrunk in 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/sick-man-of-europe-what-is-happening-to-germany-economy

Edited by L.A.T.1961
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2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think commentators will be talking about what's happened to the German economy for years to come as high energy costs and slow domestic political change, along with the EU boat anchor, allow deindustrialisation to continue. 

German insolvencies set to rise as Covid aid ends and economy stagnates.

Restructuring experts warn that many “zombie” companies kept afloat after the coronavirus pandemic by generous government aid and a suspension of the obligation to file for bankruptcy — which caused insolvencies to drop to unusually low levels — are now collapsing.

https://www.ft.com/content/b81fff40-eee3-481c-9cde-f39282070c0e

Long Europe’s powerhouse, Germany is struggling with a potent mix of short-term and deeper structural problems that – along with a divided and seemingly ineffectual government – have prompted economists to talk of the “sick man of Europe”.

The IMF predicts Germany will be the only G7 economy to have shrunk in 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/sick-man-of-europe-what-is-happening-to-germany-economy

They are trapped.

They cannot stand up for themselves as they are militarily weak, if they try the US/UK will nip them in the bud, and in the meantime its is allowed to be wealthy but not too wealthy lol.

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2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think commentators will be talking about what's happened to the German economy for years to come as high energy costs and slow domestic political change, along with the EU boat anchor, allow deindustrialisation to continue. 

German insolvencies set to rise as Covid aid ends and economy stagnates.

Restructuring experts warn that many “zombie” companies kept afloat after the coronavirus pandemic by generous government aid and a suspension of the obligation to file for bankruptcy — which caused insolvencies to drop to unusually low levels — are now collapsing.

https://www.ft.com/content/b81fff40-eee3-481c-9cde-f39282070c0e

Long Europe’s powerhouse, Germany is struggling with a potent mix of short-term and deeper structural problems that – along with a divided and seemingly ineffectual government – have prompted economists to talk of the “sick man of Europe”.

The IMF predicts Germany will be the only G7 economy to have shrunk in 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/05/sick-man-of-europe-what-is-happening-to-germany-economy

sorry, but Germany had for as long as I remember 'no debt' as standard and started making some during corona. That helped people keep their business and jobs, it worked out kind of alright actually. But like I said: first debt since...?

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5 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

They are trapped.

 

‘Hoist with one’s own petard’ 🤣

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4 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

 first debt since...?

...they tried to rule the world and then WE bailed them out. 

In 1999 Germany was labeled the "sick man of Europe" by The Economist.

So a patchy record.

But I see your point. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/04/germany-is-the-sick-man-of-europe-and-its-causing-a-shift-to-the-right-top-economist-says.html

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Oh pellinore, I thought you'd have kept your powder dry until the UK's recession at the tail end of 23 is announced along with the inflation issue. Then you can try to blame Brexit.

Then we can point out why Brexit wasn't the cause and point out that the UK is already possibly out of recession and set to outpace every EU country... then you can say something about the UK government and we can respond... 

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4 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Oh pellinore, I thought you'd have kept your powder dry until the UK's recession at the tail end of 23 is announced along with the inflation issue. Then you can try to blame Brexit.

Then we can point out why Brexit wasn't the cause and point out that the UK is already possibly out of recession and set to outpace every EU country... then you can say something about the UK government and we can respond... 

People wrongly think I am obsessed with Brexit and love the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I find Brexit fascinating because it is the first time in history a nation has voted to make itself poorer and more isolated. And it is the poorest people in the poorest regions that were the keenest to make themselves poorer. And increase immigration from the old Commonwealth of better educated people who will take the best paid jobs. So they can become seasonal fruit pickers themselves instead of Slovakians.

Fascinating, don't you think? Who would do that to themselves? Only the Brits.

I just post a few articles that pop up on the media. As soon as someone reports "because of Brexit we have been able to strike a brilliant trade deal", or "Foreign investment pours in because investors see the potential of unchained Britannia", I'll post it. More than that, I'll admit I am wrong and become a Brexiter! As soon as there is the slightest glimmer that leaving the EU has been beneficial in the slightest way, I will join with you and will publicly say on UM: I was wrong and you, Cookie and @Destination Unknown were right all along!

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2 hours ago, pellinore said:

People wrongly think I am obsessed with Brexit and love the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I find Brexit fascinating because it is the first time in history a nation has voted to make itself poorer and more isolated. And it is the poorest people in the poorest regions that were the keenest to make themselves poorer. And increase immigration from the old Commonwealth of better educated people who will take the best paid jobs. So they can become seasonal fruit pickers themselves instead of Slovakians.

Fascinating, don't you think? Who would do that to themselves? Only the Brits.

I just post a few articles that pop up on the media. As soon as someone reports "because of Brexit we have been able to strike a brilliant trade deal", or "Foreign investment pours in because investors see the potential of unchained Britannia", I'll post it. More than that, I'll admit I am wrong and become a Brexiter! As soon as there is the slightest glimmer that leaving the EU has been beneficial in the slightest way, I will join with you and will publicly say on UM: I was wrong and you, Cookie and @Destination Unknown were right all along!

How do you mean, people post factual links at you all the time, you just pretend you haven`t seen any.

Nice joke by the way, made me laugh.

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6 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

How do you mean, people post factual links at you all the time, you just pretend you haven`t seen any.

Nice joke by the way, made me laugh.

You have found a benefit for Britain, that has only been possible because we left the EU? Go on, tell us about it.

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4 hours ago, pellinore said:

You have found a benefit for Britain, that has only been possible because we left the EU? Go on, tell us about it.

What, again? For those who don`t know @pellinore yet please remember your critical thinking.

This guy has 101 anti-Brexit topics, they are wholly negative towards Brexit, they all claim its doom and gloom for Britain, that there are no benefits, and that no one can point out any benefits. In a lot of those 101 topics people post the flaws showing he is biased, including a lot of credible links and governmental body reports, and a few days after each he continues on again like no one posted anything.

Please remember to fact check everything he posts.

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13 hours ago, pellinore said:

People wrongly think I am obsessed with Brexit and love the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Stop lying. Whenever you see anything negative, no matter what it is, you automatically try and link it to Brexit, without even bothering to think about it critically, and then, precisely because of your lack of common sense and critical thinking, someone else comes along (me for instance) and totally destroys your argument. (My favourite howler from you by far is when you stupidly tried to claim that French border officials being ill was somehow Brexit's fault, then when I blew your ridiculous "theory" out of the water, you immediately changed the subject). 🤦😂😂😂😂👇👇👇👇

 

 

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

I find Brexit fascinating because it is the first time in history a nation has voted to make itself poorer and more isolated.

How does voting to leave a protectionist bloc of 27 countries in order to open up trade with the rest of the planet in any way make us more "isolated"? It's the exact opposite of isolation.

And you've been told time and time again, being in the EU has made us poorer, but as usual, you just don't listen.

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

And it is the poorest people in the poorest regions that were the keenest to make themselves poorer. And increase immigration from the old Commonwealth of better educated people who will take the best paid jobs.

Sheer Remoaner arrogance, yet again refusing to listen to what you've been told time and time again.

Of course it was the poorest people in the poorest regions that voted to Leave the EU, because they've not seen any benefit of EU membership, having seen their wages stagnate for decades during our EU membership because of too many employers taking advantage of the EU's free movement and using that option to bring in cheap labour from the continent rather than paying British workers a decent wage. It's only since that vote that wages have increased for those poorest people in those poorest regions. So no, they weren't the keenest to make themselves poorer at all, they were the keenest to make themselves better off, and it's working. 👇👇👇👇

https://businessnewswales.com/wages-soar-by-11-in-brexit-exposed-sectors-data-finds/

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

And increase immigration from the old Commonwealth of better educated people who will take the best paid jobs.

The best paid jobs were never likely to have been available to those poorest people in those poorest regions anyway. 🤦

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

So they can become seasonal fruit pickers themselves instead of Slovakians.

So they can become seasonal fruit pickers themselves whilst getting paid 60% more an hour than those Slovakians. 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://www.countryliving.com/uk/wildlife/farming/a36724667/british-farmers-help-fruit-picking-pay-more/

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

Fascinating, don't you think?

Yes, I do find it fascinating that you're condemning those poorest people in those poorest regions for wanting to see an end to their life of poverty whilst we were in the EU.

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

Who would do that to themselves? Only the Brits.

Only the Brits who are sick to the back teeth of people like you who just arrogantly sneer and look down their noses at them in your "I know what's best for you, you peasant, and you're going to like like it" attitude.

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

I just post a few articles that pop up on the media.

No pellinore, you "just" post negative articles "that pop up" (articles you deliberately go out of your way to seek out) on the media. You never post positive articles (that are also out there), and that's the problem.

13 hours ago, pellinore said:

As soon as someone reports "because of Brexit we have been able to strike a brilliant trade deal", or "Foreign investment pours in because investors see the potential of unchained Britannia", I'll post it. More than that, I'll admit I am wrong and become a Brexiter! As soon as there is the slightest glimmer that leaving the EU has been beneficial in the slightest way, I will join with you and will publicly say on UM: I was wrong and you, Cookie and @Destination Unknown were right all along!

No you won't. Myself and others have already posted numerous articles that fit your criteria, but yet you haven't posted them, or admitted that you were wrong.

Edited by Destination Unknown
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14 hours ago, pellinore said:

People wrongly think I am obsessed with Brexit and love the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I find Brexit fascinating because it is the first time in history a nation has voted to make itself poorer and more isolated. And it is the poorest people in the poorest regions that were the keenest to make themselves poorer. And increase immigration from the old Commonwealth of better educated people who will take the best paid jobs. So they can become seasonal fruit pickers themselves instead of Slovakians.

Fascinating, don't you think? Who would do that to themselves? Only the Brits.

I just post a few articles that pop up on the media. As soon as someone reports "because of Brexit we have been able to strike a brilliant trade deal", or "Foreign investment pours in because investors see the potential of unchained Britannia", I'll post it. More than that, I'll admit I am wrong and become a Brexiter! As soon as there is the slightest glimmer that leaving the EU has been beneficial in the slightest way, I will join with you and will publicly say on UM: I was wrong and you, Cookie and @Destination Unknown were right all along!

😆:w00t:😆

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1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

 

In the same vein as your post about Pellinore ..........

The Black Knight better represents the delusional Brexiteer. No matter how dire the situation, he refuses to face facts.

On the other hand, do you see yourself as the fictitious 'King Arthur' character, playing horsey in the forest? If so, when you are tired of the pretend world, give yourself a last good smack on the rump and trot on home, neighing and snorting, for a well-deserved tea before bed. 

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21 hours ago, Electric Scooter said:

How do you mean, people post factual links at you all the time, you just pretend you haven`t seen any.

Nice joke by the way, made me laugh.

I think @Destination Unknown and I ex-communicated each other at Saru's suggestion some weeks ago- at least I think so, as I haven't seen a post by him in ages. I can see everyone else's though- so what are the benefits we have been able to achieve since being unfettered from the Single Market?

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Some more not bad news. 

"The UK unemployment rate eased at the end of last year, official data showed on Tuesday, while average earnings continued to rise.

According to the latest figures from the Office for National Statistics, the unemployment rate was 3.8% for those aged 16 and over in the three months to December.

That was down on November’s rate of 4.2% and below consensus prediction for 4.0%."

https://www.fxstreet.com/news/uk-unemployment-rate-drops-to-38-in-quarter-to-december-vs-40-expected-202402130703

How can this be ?

 

"British inflation unexpectedly held steady at 4.0% in January, defying forecasts of a rise, official data showed, offering relief for the Bank of England (BoE) and Prime Minister Rishi Sunak too ahead of a national election expected this year.

Economists polled by Reuters had expected an increase in the annual rate to 4.2%."

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-inflation-unchanged-4-january-2024-02-14/

 

 

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