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Dragons: An (Un)natural History


Still Waters

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Isn't there a type of dragon still walking the earth to this day - with a poisonous bite? (well more bacterial than poison)

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3 hours ago, Procyon said:

If you buy into the theory that the Cathars practiced a form of gnosticism, then they lasted a lot longer than just a few centuries. One problem though, didn't the gnostics depict the Demiurge as a snake as well? That simultaneously makes the serpent a symbol of wisdom and ignorance.

Here is an interesting alternative theory about the emergence of Gnosticism and the Demiurge most people may not be familiar with that I heard from Dr. Justin Sledge.

The Egyptians didn't like their depiction in the story of the Exodus, which they rightly regarded as BS.  The Jews were never in captivity in Egypt, they were in captivity in Babylon.  However the Egyptians considered the whole 7 plagues and the destruction of the Pharaoh's army story as very insulting.  The Jews had 1 smallish, but very nice temple, while Egypt had hundreds of magnificent edifices and was the glory of the world, so they felt insulted that this ****ty little god was making outrageous claims.  Hence the Egyptians identified YHVH to be Sutekh, otherwise known as the god Set, or Seth, a god of the Desert, Violence, and uncivilized outsiders.  They also identified YHVH with the Donkey, which was one of the possibilities for the animal that Set's animal head represented.

Because Egypt was a far larger and more important civilization than Judea, the story stuck.  Thus as the Judean Creator Deity grew in influence, so too did the counter story of Yaldabaoth, the Asinine Evil God worshipped by the Jews as their god YHVH.  This is where the idea of an Evil Creator comes from.  When it interacted with Christianity, it became a knotty theological problem that needed to be solved, and thus the theology of the Gnostic Demiurge was born. 

Nevertheless, it represents an interesting counterpoint to all the religions that say that God is Good and the world is good. I mean, is it?  Is it really?  Babies born without eyelids may disagree.  It is perfectly reasonable to suppose that the Creator is a cruel and abusive figure given all that is wrong with the world.  Also, it must be conceded that Christian Theology has NEVER adequately resolved the Question of Evil... Which is... If God is Good, and has the power to defeat all evil, why does He allow evil to exist?  There has never been a reason for the existence of evil provided that satisfactorily resolves the need for evil in God's Good Creation.  At some point, one must concede that Evil exists because God has an evil side, which makes him seem very much like Yaldabaoth, not YHVH as advertised.

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8 hours ago, Procyon said:

If you buy into the theory that the Cathars practiced a form of gnosticism, then they lasted a lot longer than just a few centuries.

I was referring to Christian gnostics during the period near the beginning of the Jesus movement when any number of views were equally well situated to describe themselves as faithfully Christian. I reckon that lasted into the Third Century, maybe a bit longer.

The Mandaeans are living gnostics. Nobody, including themselves, describes Mandaeans as Christians.

Quote

One problem though, didn't the gnostics depict the Demiurge as a snake as well? That simultaneously makes the serpent a symbol of wisdom and ignorance.

I don't see the problem. A symbol that can be interpreted one way is generally liable to be interpreted as the opposite. Thus, for example, a cross is both a symbol of salvation and a symbol of oppression (and in the movies, of supernatural dominance, and there are more). A dreamt black dog for one person might represent the forces of darkness. For me, she would be Kelly, or maybe Bernice.

That's the difference between symbols (many meanings in one concrete expression) and signs (one meaning, often set by convention).

As to the specific appearance of Serpent in Eden, it is not his fault that death is the price of having a life. Wisdom is rarely happy talk.

Edited by eight bits
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8 hours ago, Alex_Rogan said:

Isn't there a type of dragon still walking the earth to this day - with a poisonous bite? (well more bacterial than poison)

Komodo.

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

Komodo.

Those things are so wicked...about the only thing they can't do is spit fire and fly...and they aren't very good climbers.  But they will eat anything and they eat their prey whole.  And those tails...deadly weapons...and they're fast!  

Plus they do have bacteria in their mouth that will cause you to eventually bleed to death...so if you are bitten and escape...they will just follow you for miles...and then eat you.

 

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It is interesting to see the resemblance between the dragons of legend and the dinosaurs. 

Perhaps humans may have spotted some rare endangered dinosaurs which eventually became extinct, and this gave rise to the dragons in mythology. Or maybe startling fossils dug up in the past could also have inspired the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/10/huge-sea-dragon-named-one-of-uks-greatest-fossil-finds

 

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On 2/16/2024 at 9:42 AM, Desertrat56 said:

So why would they be demonic?  Is that because you think those are the only beings who could go in and out of our dimensions?

I don't know, DR, just playing with ideas. 

I feel strongly that these creatures have really been seen, but they always escape capture and then, disappear, although they often leave evidences.

Obviously, I can't prove this, but basically, all I am doing is lumping these cryptos based on the fact that people continue to see them and yet the creature goes uncaptured.

Oh, and I do think "demonics" are just creatures from other dimensions, including the devil = demon 

 

 

PS: DR, sorry. I later on found that I addressed already. Hope all id well you, DR

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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46 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

I feel strongly that these creatures have really been seen

Tulpas? I think the same as BF, some people are genuine in seeing these creatures but they may not be real. 

 

49 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

although they often leave evidences

I'm not sure about tangible evidence.

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39 minutes ago, openozy said:

Tulpas? I think the same as BF, some people are genuine in seeing these creatures but they may not be real. 

 

I'm not sure about tangible evidence.

for BF, footprints and recorded howls 

and I agree, they may not be real, 

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12 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I don't know, DR, just playing with ideas. 

I feel strongly that these creatures have really been seen, but they always escape capture and then, disappear, although they often leave evidences.

Obviously, I can't prove this, but basically, all I am doing is lumping these cryptos based on the fact that people continue to see them and yet the creature goes uncaptured.

Oh, and I do think "demonics" are just creatures from other dimensions, including the devil = demon 

 

 

PS: DR, sorry. I later on found that I addressed already. Hope all id well you, DR

Thanks.   All is well with me, I hope all is well with you too.

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On 2/15/2024 at 11:01 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I think it is possible that the dragons are a real creature that is a form of demonic and it goes in and out of our dimensions, and back to its own. 

Ditto for bigfoot, mothman, and others. I'm not 100% behind this theory but I do like contemplating it. 

THIS^  I think "aliens" are also examples of this.  Craft that have been observed in non-ballistic flight, changing directions at incredible speeds, things like that, I believe are something crossing dimensions.  From the "demon" angle, the Bible tells of a "strong delusion" that God will place into our world so that those who have refused to accept HIM, will choose the object of that delusion, instead.  Imagine the reaction around the world if we suddenly were "contacted" and aliens began communicating and showing humanity technology that was like "magic".  Billions would accept it as true.  

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Yes, @and-then, how could I forget, Aliens.

They too, have that magic about them where you see them clearly, but you cannot catch them - at least *we* can't, despite what rumors there are about the US Military.

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On 2/15/2024 at 2:31 PM, Still Waters said:

Given the widespread appearance of these iconic creatures across enormous geographic and cultural divides

naff off!!=== 'alleged' appearance 

claims, fekin stories-- boring💤

a thread for children- go away 😉

Edited by Dejarma
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13 hours ago, Dejarma said:

naff off!!=== 'alleged' appearance 

claims, fekin stories-- boring💤

a thread for children- go away 😉

Jeez!  I thought I was cranky but your are worse.  You don't have to read the "fekin" stories, no one is making you, so maybe you should go away from this thread and find one you want to read.

Or start a chat thread about something you are interested in.  

 

Edited by Desertrat56
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8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Jeez!  I thought I was cranky but your are worse.  You don't have to read the "fekin" stories, no one is making you, so maybe you should go away from this thread and find one you want to read.

Or start a chat thread about something you are interested in.  

 

calm down- just mucking about

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11 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

calm down- just mucking about

Ok, it is hard to tell because you seem so serious all the time.  I love the diversion of dragon threads from the UFO stuff (beat a dead horse after it is already dust stuff).

Edited by Desertrat56
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2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Ok, it is hard to tell because you seem so serious all the time.

i did put a wink at the end.. but no worries, Des

Peace.

Dej...

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On 2/19/2024 at 6:33 PM, joc said:

Those things are so wicked...about the only thing they can't do is spit fire and fly...and they aren't very good climbers.  But they will eat anything and they eat their prey whole.  And those tails...deadly weapons...and they're fast!  

Plus they do have bacteria in their mouth that will cause you to eventually bleed to death...so if you are bitten and escape...they will just follow you for miles...and then eat you.

 

They aren't popular attractions at zoos.  At Steve Irwin's you'll virtually be on your own looking at komodos and alligators. 

Edited by Golden Duck
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6 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

They aren't popular attractions at zoos.  At Steve Irwin's you'll virtually be on your own looking at komodos and alligators. 

Alligators are boring.  We went to the Pyramid Bass Pro Shop in Memphis. They have an alligator exhibit.  They didn't even look alive. 

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On 2/18/2024 at 5:49 AM, Tatetopa said:

 

That brings to mind a question.  One culture in Northern Europe had some kind of vermiform notion of a dragon.  Today, our view is very different when we think of a dragon.    When did this more modern view originate and where?  That might make an interesting linguistic and cultural research study.

You mean Jörmungandr, the World Serpent.

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On 2/18/2024 at 3:12 PM, Alchopwn said:

North America also doesn't have any dragons.  It has sea serpents, snakes, and the occasional man-snake spirit, but no dragons.

And what about this creature:

https://www.derelictdoug.net/derelict-doug-blog/the-legend-of-the-piasa-bird-an-american-indian-dragon-story

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31 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

So, how many dragons have human faces?  The piasa bird has one.  Not very dragon like to me.

It has other properties too which makes it resemble a dragon.

And, btw., not all 'dragons' breath fire.

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Just now, Abramelin said:

It has other properties too which makes it resemble a dragon.

And, btw., not all 'dragons' breath fire.

I don't recall ANY dragons having human faces except in the Bible, and that one is an allegorical reference to Rome in Revelations.

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I'll just leave this here:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68348902

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Authorities in Colorado have confirmed the death of a 34-year-old local resident four days after he was bitten by one of his two pet Gila monsters.

The creatures are venomous reptiles native to the south-western United States. Their bites are not normally fatal to humans.

But an expert told the BBC's US partner CBS News that the victim may have suffered an allergic reaction.

The last human death from such a bite is believed to have been in 1930.

I wonder if it's in custody?

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