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Trans women’s milk as good as breast milk, says NHS trust


itsnotoutthere

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An NHS trust has said that breast milk produced by trans-women who were born as men is as good for babies as that produced by a mother who has given birth.

In a letter to campaigners, the University of Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust (USHT), said that the milk produced by trans women after taking a combination of drugs, is “comparable to that produced following the birth of a baby”.

The hospital trust, which runs Royal Sussex County Hospital, Worthing Hospital and Royal Alexandra Children’s Hospital among others, was also the first in Britain to use the term “chestfeeding” in place of breastfeeding because it is considered by some to be more inclusive.

The trust created what it called Britain’s “first clinical and language guidelines supporting trans and non-binary birthing people” in 2021.

Lottie Moore, of the Policy Exchange, which uncovered the letter, said the trust “is unbalanced and naïve in its assertion that the secretions produced by a male on hormones can nourish an infant in the way a mother’s breast milk can”.

USHT has removed the webpage where the guidance was published, but now links to an external website, La Leche League, which states it “supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals”.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/trans-women-s-milk-as-good-as-breast-milk-says-nhs-trust/ar-BB1islTj

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond comprehension" - Tesla, 1898

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Interesting article.   I would like to see more research done on this.   

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4 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond comprehension" - Tesla, 1898

^ ^ this :( I feel as if I'm living in a world that Hieronymus Bosch created.

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38 minutes ago, tcgram said:

Interesting article.   I would like to see more research done on this.   

I think it is tied in with research done to help promote breastfeeding. Some mums ae deficient in the hormones needed.

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22 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

^ ^ this :( I feel as if I'm living in a world that Hieronymus Bosch created.

You are supposed to feel like that. Policy Exchange, which looked into this, has no links with medicine - it is a right-wing organisation designed to stoke the culture wars. Google 55 Tufton Street - Wikipediato find more of these organisations.

55 Tufton Street is a four-storey Georgian-era townhouse on historic Tufton Street, in Westminster, London, owned by businessman Richard Smith.[1] Since the 2010s the building has hosted a network of libertarian lobby groups and think tanks related to pro-Brexit, climate science denial and other fossil-fuel lobby groups.[2] 

Edited by pellinore
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Do trans-women have milk glands to produce milk?

Edited by susieice
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31 minutes ago, susieice said:

Do trans-women have milk glands to produce milk?

I think both men and women can produce milk given the right hormones Can men and transgender people lactate? | BabyCenter.

I'm lost in the trans gender stuff though. I'm old enough to remember when we had men and women, and gay men and women. That's quite enough gendering for me, but I admit I'm out of touch with the modern take on it.

 

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All males start out female in the womb.  Otherwise... explain nipples.

Course... we also start out fish, so explain lungs while you're at it... :rofl:

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1 hour ago, quiXilver said:

All males start out female in the womb.  Otherwise... explain nipples.

Course... we also start out fish, so explain lungs while you're at it... :rofl:

Hiccups are a leftover when we were amphibians and they suck.

6 hours ago, pellinore said:

I think both men and women can produce milk given the right hormones Can men and transgender people lactate? | BabyCenter.

I'm lost in the trans gender stuff though. I'm old enough to remember when we had men and women, and gay men and women. That's quite enough gendering for me, but I admit I'm out of touch with the modern take on it.

Men can lactate as a side effect from certain drugs and thyroid disorders. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Piney said:

Men can lactate as a side effect from certain drugs and thyroid disorders. 

I know. I'm not sure they can breastfeed though. And the idea of giving men hormones to try to facilitate this seems to be taking things too far. But as I said above, I'm old fashioned, and have always liked the idea of there being men and women. But I admit I may be blinkered as I have no personal experience of anything else.

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7 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I know. I'm not sure they can breastfeed though. And the idea of giving men hormones to try to facilitate this seems to be taking things too far. But as I said above, I'm old fashioned, and have always liked the idea of there being men and women. But I admit I may be blinkered as I have no personal experience of anything else.

They are willing to give them hormones so they can play out their kink.

But are unwilling to give them psychological treatment to fix their identity disorder.

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15 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I know. I'm not sure they can breastfeed though. And the idea of giving men hormones to try to facilitate this seems to be taking things too far. But as I said above, I'm old fashioned, and have always liked the idea of there being men and women. But I admit I may be blinkered as I have no personal experience of anything else.

I had a gay uncle who adopted me after the other uncle died, hung out and played Lego with two Satanist lesbians and wandered in Old City, Philadelphia and NYC as a youngling so nothing fazes me. 

"That it harm no one, do what thy will". Is the Church of Satan motto and I agree.

Edited by Piney
brain fart
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13 hours ago, pellinore said:

I'm lost in the trans gender stuff though. I'm old enough to remember when we had men and women, and gay men and women. That's quite enough gendering for me, but I admit I'm out of touch with the modern take on it.

 

I still prefer a female with a kitty & melons. 🍈:cat: Not a cucumber & nuts.

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We are all human so what would actually be the difference between male prolactin and female prolactin where it happens?

Strange but True: Males Can Lactate

Conservative hysteria aside, it's an interesting subject. 

There have been countless literary descriptions of men miraculously breast-feeding, from The Talmud to Tolstoy, where, in Anna Karenina, there is a short anecdote of a baby suckling an Englishman for sustenance while on board a ship. The little anthropological evidence documented suggests it is possible. In the 1896 compendium Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine, George Gould and Walter Pyle catalogue several instances of male nursing being observed. Among them was a South American man, observed by Prussian naturalist Alexander von Humboldt, who subbed as wet nurse after his wife fell ill as well as male missionaries in Brazil that were the sole milk supply for their children because their wives had shriveled breasts. More recently, Agence France-Presse reported a short piece in 2002 on a 38-year-old man in Sri Lanka who nursed his two daughters through their infancy after his wife died during the birth of her second child.

In her 1978 book The Tender Gift: Breastfeeding, medical anthropologist Dana Raphael claimed that men could induce lactation simply by stimulating their nipples. The eminent endocrinologist Robert Greenblatt of the Medical College of Georgia concurred. But Jack Newman, a Toronto-based doctor and breast-feeding expert, insists that in order to produce milk, a hormone spike must occur. "That Tolstoy quote suggests that the father just put the baby to the breast and he would produce milk; I think that's pretty unlikely," he says. "It could be that you have this man with this pituitary tumor and he produces milk once the baby starts suckling."

Newman explains that medical disruptions involving prolactin, the hormone necessary to produce milk, have resulted in spontaneous lactation. Thorazine, a popular antipsychotic used in the mid-20th century, impacted the pituitary gland—the pea-size endocrine gland located near the base of the brain—often causing it to overproduce prolactin. If prolactin levels remained high, milk could follow. According to Newman, lactation is listed as a possible side effect of the heart medication digoxin. A pituitary tumor could also induce milk production: "It would be the same reason—increased prolactin levels—the one case drug-induced, in the other due to a tumor or some other sort of neurological problem."

Edited by psyche101
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46 minutes ago, Hawken said:

I still prefer a female with a kitty & melons. 🍈:cat: Not a cucumber & nuts.

I don't think the thread is about your personal preferences. As fascinating as you see yourself it's lost on most of us.

Not sure why some feel a need to confirm their gender orientation to everyone. Perhaps there's some personal confusion?

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsUfBtGDib59axqYOZlqY

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I found this article if it helps. It doesn't sound like men can actually produce enough milk to breastfeed an infant or really the ducts needed to carry the milk to the nipples. There must be some kind of medication or hormones involved.

Mammary Glands - The Definitive Guide | Biology Dictionary

Edited by susieice
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1 hour ago, susieice said:

I found this article if it helps. It doesn't sound like men can actually produce enough milk to breastfeed an infant or really the ducts needed to carry the milk to the nipples. There must be some kind of medication or hormones involved.

Mammary Glands - The Definitive Guide | Biology Dictionary

I suspect it wouldn't be a common thing. More perhaps specific genetic makeup resulting in rare circumstances ( high estrogen count or treatment for say prostrate cancer), or perhaps in some cases a shock reaction like parthenogenesis. Just throwing stuff out there. 

Interesting anyway. But as I mentioned before, if it is possible, wouldn't quality be the same seeing as we are human regardless of sex? A prolactin would be a prolactin wouldn't it? 

It's actually an unsettling thought. I get why people would find it strange, but strange is what makes the world interesting I think. 

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So many indigenous cultures have three to five gender identifications recognized, going back to the origins of social grouping.  It's just nothing new... at all.  Been around as long as society has...

Far more intriguing than the topiccuz it's so mundane as to be a non-topic is the intense visceral reaction by a few folks.  It's quite compelling to witness as folks have their perspective undesirably expanded/bubble popped/awareness shifted. 

 

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On 2/19/2024 at 3:27 AM, itsnotoutthere said:

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond comprehension" - Tesla, 1898

He was as much a prophet as Orwell turned out to be.  Sadly, we aren't even close to the bottom yet :( 

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2 hours ago, quiXilver said:

So many indigenous cultures have three to five gender identifications recognized, going back to the origins of social grouping.  It's just nothing new... at all.  Been around as long as society has..

Self-perception and acceptance of the same within a culture is one thing.  Claiming that biology is fluid enough to allow men to lactate without extreme intervention is another.  Just because a guy can be biologically altered to create breast milk doesn't mean it's as healthy or natural as what women produce after pregnancy.  It's just another example of the insanity of modern culture and those who are willing to try to warp reality for the rest of us.  Some simply refuse to accept it.  Insult and demean as much as you like, it changes nothing.

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On 2/20/2024 at 10:39 AM, Piney said:

hung out and played Lego with two Satanist lesbians

Not something people do every day Piney 🤣👍.

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9 minutes ago, and-then said:

Self-perception and acceptance of the same within a culture is one thing.  Claiming that biology is fluid enough to allow men to lactate without extreme intervention is another.  Just because a guy can be biologically altered to create breast milk doesn't mean it's as healthy or natural as what women produce after pregnancy.  It's just another example of the insanity of modern culture and those who are willing to try to warp reality for the rest of us.  Some simply refuse to accept it.  Insult and demean as much as you like, it changes nothing.

The op actually states intervention is required. Your hysteria isn't part of the topic from what I can tell 

What exactly is the difference between prolactin produced by a female vs prolactin produced by a male?

Perhaps you have forgotten that we are all human. 

Lol. Perhaps..... :unsure2:

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27 minutes ago, and-then said:

Sadly, we aren't even close to the bottom yet

Or, joyfully, humanity has not reached its pinnacle yet.  What things matter and which ones don't changes over time and culture, and technology.   Seemingly though, at least for the last 25,000 years or so, we have been able to empathize and form bonds with at least one other species, dogs.  Even in the sparse record of bones, we can see human love, care, friendship, and respect.  I'd rather those accompany us into any future than skirts, trousers, and immutable social structures.

 

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can-you-milk-me.gif

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