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Muhammad's descendants actually fought for Joseon in Japanese invasion: Was religion War?


Great Old Man

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Japan's invasion of Joseon was nearly successful, but it failed because of Ming's intervention. The commander in chief of the army sent from Ming was a Maqui.

The leader of the Ming Dynasty, the Maqui, was originally the son of an Arab Kingdom.

In 1512 the kingdom of Hoi was destroyed by the internal Islamic War, so Marok escaped to Vietnam and became a Vietnamese King's son in law.

In 1522, Marok's son, the Ma qui, served as a government officer in mainland China and became a general officer.

After that, Joseon was saved from Japanese Invasion by Konisi Yukinaga (who was a Cartholic).

Pre-Chinese dynasties, the Tang and Yuan dynasties, welcomed Jews and Westerners, but Ming was a country that suppressed Jews.

That means that the proxy war between the Ming Dynasty (Islamic) VS the Jesuit (Catholic) took place in the form of Imjin War(Japanese Invasion) in Joseon.

Mahui (麻貴) is the original son of King of Hoi 回, the king of Hoihwaguk, and is the son of Marok the Chinese official (Pojeongsa). When the Hoihwagukguk was destroyed in 1512, Crown Prince Marok (麻祿), who was 6 years old, fled to Vietnam(Annam) on the back of his servant, was appointed and raised by the king, and became the king's son-in-law. Then, in 1522, he entered China Mainland and served as a government officer and Pojeongsa.

The Arab country's royals are likely descendants of the Prophet Muhammad, and in fact maqui's ma is written in place of Muhammad in Chinese characters.

 

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3 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

Japan's invasion of Joseon was nearly successful, but it failed because of Ming's intervention. The commander in chief of the army sent from Ming was a Maqui.

The leader of the Ming Dynasty, the Maqui, was originally the son of an Arab Kingdom.

In 1512 the kingdom of Hoi was destroyed by the internal Islamic War, so Marok escaped to Vietnam and became a Vietnamese King's son in law.

In 1522, Marok's son, the Ma qui, served as a government officer in mainland China and became a general officer.

After that, Joseon was saved from Japanese Invasion by Konisi Yukinaga (who was a Cartholic).

Pre-Chinese dynasties, the Tang and Yuan dynasties, welcomed Jews and Westerners, but Ming was a country that suppressed Jews.

That means that the proxy war between the Ming Dynasty (Islamic) VS the Jesuit (Catholic) took place in the form of Imjin War(Japanese Invasion) in Joseon.

Mahui (麻貴) is the original son of King of Hoi 回, the king of Hoihwaguk, and is the son of Marok the Chinese official (Pojeongsa). When the Hoihwagukguk was destroyed in 1512, Crown Prince Marok (麻祿), who was 6 years old, fled to Vietnam(Annam) on the back of his servant, was appointed and raised by the king, and became the king's son-in-law. Then, in 1522, he entered China Mainland and served as a government officer and Pojeongsa.

The Arab country's royals are likely descendants of the Prophet Muhammad, and in fact maqui's ma is written in place of Muhammad in Chinese characters.

 

Source? Because there is no record of the Ming suppressing Jews and Hideyoshi's invasion had nothing to do with Catholics other than one of his generals was. 

Edit: It wasn't a Christian vs Muslim thing just because some of the players were. 

Edited by Piney
brain fart
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Japan invaded Joseon twice. Which one are you referring to?

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41 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Japan invaded Joseon twice. Which one are you referring to?

1592 under Hideyoshi. Yukinaga was one of his generals. 

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Just now, Piney said:

1592 under Hideyoshi. Yukinaga was one of his generals. 

Cool. Thanks.

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14 hours ago, Piney said:

Source? Because there is no record of the Ming suppressing Jews and Hideyoshi's invasion had nothing to do with Catholics other than one of his generals was. 

Edit: It wasn't a Christian vs Muslim thing just because some of the players were. 

Maqui source:

https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/마귀_(명나라)

Ming's Jewish suppression:

https://f1231.tistory.com/84 (translate it)

https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/유대인

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongwu_Emperor

(He prohibited marriage between Han Chinese and Jews)

The Kaifeng Jews, North Song, were able to take the government official's examination like the Han Chinese, but when the Ming Dynasty was founded, it was prohibited. 

Ming's founder Zhu Yuanzang  forbid the marrying between han people and jewish, arab people.

The central axis of the founding of the Ming dynasty was the lowest-ranking Southerners, whose leader was Zhu Yuanzang. Zhu Yuanzang was a Westerner, but he hated Mongolians and Jews. The previous dynasty, the Yuan Dynasty, thought that Jews without a country would not revolt, so it gave them high offices and wealth. Zhu Yuanzang persecuted, killed most of the Jews, and confiscated their property.

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2 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

Ming's Jewish suppression:

https://f1231.tistory.com/84 (translate it)

This article is garbage

2 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

I don't see it specifically here.

2 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongwu_Emperor

(He prohibited marriage between Han Chinese and Jews)

He prohibited marriage between the Han and everybody including my stepmother's folks the Kipchak-Cuman. It was about your physical appearance. Not religion.

2 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

The Kaifeng Jews, North Song, were able to take the government official's examination like the Han Chinese, but when the Ming Dynasty was founded, it was prohibited. 

Ming's founder Zhu Yuanzang  forbid the marrying between han people and jewish, arab people.

The central axis of the founding of the Ming dynasty was the lowest-ranking Southerners, whose leader was Zhu Yuanzang. Zhu Yuanzang was a Westerner, but he hated Mongolians and Jews. The previous dynasty, the Yuan Dynasty, thought that Jews without a country would not revolt, so it gave them high offices and wealth. Zhu Yuanzang persecuted, killed most of the Jews, and confiscated their property.

Once again it was all non-Han. Not Jews specifically.

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That's a lot of supposition.

I tried searching "Hoihwaguk", and got only one return... this UM post.

Edit:

Found Hoi An as a 15th century trading city of Vietnam, but doesn't mention Muslims, just Chinese and Japanese. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hội_An

I very much doubt some minor noble of some tiny one town kingdom, distrupted by the fall of the Gujarat Sultanate, and birth of the Moghul Empire, even if he was a Muslim, was a direct descendent of Prophet Muhammad.

If it can be shown there was a Muslim kingdom in SE Asia, outside the Indian subcontinent, that would likely get scholarly attention. But I don't see such online. 

Edited by DieChecker
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5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

That's a lot of supposition.

I tried searching "Hoihwaguk", and got only one return... this UM post.

Edit:

Found Hoi An as a 15th century trading city of Vietnam, but doesn't mention Muslims, just Chinese and Japanese. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hội_An

I very much doubt some minor noble of some tiny one town kingdom, distrupted by the fall of the Gujarat Sultanate, and birth of the Moghul Empire, even if he was a Muslim, was a direct descendent of Prophet Muhammad.

If it can be shown there was a Muslim kingdom in SE Asia, outside the Indian subcontinent, that would likely get scholarly attention. But I don't see such online. 

Hoihwaguk is actually meaning for Arabia in Korean not related to Vietnam.

回回國 means Islamic Empire.

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On 2/23/2024 at 1:24 AM, Piney said:

This article is garbage

I don't see it specifically here.

He prohibited marriage between the Han and everybody including my stepmother's folks the Kipchak-Cuman. It was about your physical appearance. Not religion.

Once again it was all non-Han. Not Jews specifically.

However, it is also true that the Ming dynasty suppressed Westerners, unlike the Tang and Yuan dynasties, which welcomed Westerners. Also, the founder of the Ming dynasty was a Buddhist monk.

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6 minutes ago, Great Old Man said:

However, it is also true that the Ming dynasty suppressed Westerners, unlike the Tang and Yuan dynasties, which welcomed Westerners. Also, the founder of the Ming dynasty was a Buddhist monk.

He did? He considered all traders trash and wanted the people to buy directly from the producers.

Zhu was a poor farmer and became a novice monk but left the monastery, wandered as a monk and went on to lead the Red Turbans. He was also into religious tolerance. But tried to restore Han Chinese culture which was overrun with Mongol cultural practices and only banned non-Asians who looked different from marrying Han. He actively encouraged Han and Mongol marriages. 

 Now you point that he was a Buddhist monk as a bad thing. Figures..

He did far more good than bad. Including giving land to poor peasants and reduced the demand for forced labor. 

Are you going to pull any more Korean Evangelical Christian apologist anti-Buddhist, anti-Catholic, anti-Han and Islamophobic feces out of your ass? 

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4 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

Hoihwaguk is actually meaning for Arabia in Korean not related to Vietnam.

回回國 means Islamic Empire.

Sooooo.... He rode on his slave from Arabia to Vietnam? Then moved to China?

The Islamic empires of the time were the Ottomans, and the Mughal Empire. I doubt he was in charge of either. And I very much doubt you'd find a Chinese scholar (or perhaps any historian) who'd say that China was an Islamic puppet state in the mid 16th century.

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10 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Sooooo.... He rode on his slave from Arabia to Vietnam? Then moved to China?

The Islamic empires of the time were the Ottomans, and the Mughal Empire. I doubt he was in charge of either. And I very much doubt you'd find a Chinese scholar (or perhaps any historian) who'd say that China was an Islamic puppet state in the mid 16th century.

maqui's father, marok escaped to VIetnam when he was age of 7. (That time, Islamic regime could be changed)

China was not Islamic puppet state. However, China attempts to prevent Japnese Invasion.

That military commander was ironically Maqui, who is descendants of Muhammad, and on the other hand, Konishi was Cartholic Warrior.

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2 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

That military commander was ironically Maqui, who is descendants of Muhammad, and on the other hand, Konishi was Cartholic 

That was neither ironic nor here or there or had any bearing on Japan's invasion of Korea.

I did a lot of reading. Ma Gui was Hui and not Arabic and not a descendant of Muhammad. 

So your wrong there too. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Piney said:

That was neither ironic nor here or there or had any bearing on Japan's invasion of Korea.

I did a lot of reading. Ma Gui was Hui and not Arabic and not a descendant of Muhammad. 

So your wrong there too. 

 

 

Looking for some more good, reliable source material on the Japanese invasions. Have you got any recommendations?

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20 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Looking for some more good, reliable source material on the Japanese invasions. Have you got any recommendations?

Wikipedia and I'm not being facetious. Japanese historians are anal about facts and hover those articles. 

I only had a book on the Genpei. Haven't a clue where it's at or who wrote it, it was so long ago. 

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

Wikipedia and I'm not being facetious. Japanese historians are anal about facts and hover those articles. 

I only had a book on the Genpei. Haven't a clue where it's at or who wrote it, it was so long ago. 

Ok thanks.

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9 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Ok thanks.

You sound thrilled. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Piney said:

You sound thrilled. 

 

Well you know, Wiki 😂

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Muhammad's descendants, Islam in general have never been as deadly to the Jews as have Christians.  That doesn't change the fact that in our times, many Muslims - especially Arab Muslims - want the Jews not only removed from Israel, but they want them exterminated all over the world.  Before I get some members screaming that this isn't so, have a look at the creed of Hamas and Hizballah.  FTM, the Sunnah itself proudly proclaims it:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

 

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43 minutes ago, and-then said:

Muhammad's descendants, Islam in general have never been as deadly to the Jews as have Christians.  That doesn't change the fact that in our times, many Muslims - especially Arab Muslims - want the Jews not only removed from Israel, but they want them exterminated all over the world.  Before I get some members screaming that this isn't so, have a look at the creed of Hamas and Hizballah.  FTM, the Sunnah itself proudly proclaims it:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

 

And what does this have to do with the thread? 

Nothing...

Because the fact that the general who fought for Joseon wasn't a Arab or Muhammad's descendant but a Turkic-Mongolian and the Japanese invasion of Joseon had nothing to do with religion.

This guy just tried to make it one.

Please keep this **** in the political section where it belongs.

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I'm terribly confused.

When I look up the Ming Dynasty for that time period I only find this about the ruler:
 

Quote

The Wanli Emperor (4 September 1563 – 18 August 1620), also known by his temple name as the Emperor Shenzong of Ming (Chinese: 明神宗), personal name Zhu Yijun (Chinese: 朱翊鈞; pinyin: Zhū Yìjūn), art name Yuzhai (禹齋),[2] was the 14th emperor of the Ming dynasty, reigned from 1572 to 1620. He succeeded his father, the Longqing Emperor. His reign of 48 years was the longest among all the Ming dynasty emperors.[1] "Wanli", the era name of his reign, means "ten thousand calendars".

And from what I see on the Hui (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people) they were a very tiny minority, so I don't see how they could incite any religious wars.

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5 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I'm terribly confused.

When I look up the Ming Dynasty for that time period I only find this about the ruler:
 

And from what I see on the Hui (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people) they were a very tiny minority, so I don't see how they could incite any religious wars.

Korean Evangelical Christian propaganda. Like I said earlier. 

The Evangelicals in Korea are more off the wall than the American ones. That's why we have the Moonies. They also rewrite history like ours do. 

 

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On 2/22/2024 at 5:42 AM, Great Old Man said:

After that, Joseon was saved from Japanese Invasion by Konisi Yukinaga (who was a Cartholic).

 Konishi Yukinaga did provide the Joseon with some intelligence about Japanese military maneuvers, but to say that this information was what saved Joseon in that troubled time is a complete misrepresentation of the history.  Konishi told the Joseon about Kiyomasa's landing site, but that was useless information as Kiyomasa annihilated the Joseon forces sent against him and broke out across the countryside in an offensive that was breathtakingly fast.  The Joseon also utterly failed to harvest their crops before the Japanese arrived, despite Konishi's warnings to do so.  Admiral Yi Sun-sin famously believed that Konishi couldn't be trusted, and that led to the destruction of the Joseon fleet at the Battle of Chilcheolyang.  The idea that Konishi's warnings were valuable to Joseon is something to be highly skeptical of, the notion that they saved Joseon is simply wrong.  One must question the reasoning behind why this relatively minor figure is given such prominence in this story?  Perhaps because he was a Christian, and the authors of this article want to play up the importance of Christians in Korean history?  Cult behavior is not history.

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4 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

 Konishi Yukinaga did provide the Joseon with some intelligence about Japanese military maneuvers, but to say that this information was what saved Joseon in that troubled time is a complete misrepresentation of the history.  Konishi told the Joseon about Kiyomasa's landing site, but that was useless information as Kiyomasa annihilated the Joseon forces sent against him and broke out across the countryside in an offensive that was breathtakingly fast.  The Joseon also utterly failed to harvest their crops before the Japanese arrived, despite Konishi's warnings to do so.  Admiral Yi Sun-sin famously believed that Konishi couldn't be trusted, and that led to the destruction of the Joseon fleet at the Battle of Chilcheolyang.  The idea that Konishi's warnings were valuable to Joseon is something to be highly skeptical of, the notion that they saved Joseon is simply wrong.  One must question the reasoning behind why this relatively minor figure is given such prominence in this story?  Perhaps because he was a Christian, and the authors of this article want to play up the importance of Christians in Korean history?  Cult behavior is not history.

I didn't know these details. It figures Konishi was a traitor. 

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