[Poll] Are we living in a computer simulation ?

[Saru]

It's a question that has been around for a few decades now - just how real is the 'real' world ?

Is the world around us a virtual one generated by some sophisticated computer system or is the whole idea rooted firmly in the realms of science fiction ?

Then again, perhaps it's simply impossible for us to ever know one way or the other.

What are your thoughts ?

[psyche101]

I've always felt it's just an idea. 

It always strikes me as a modern take on the creator concept. Tantalising enough to maintain interest in the idea for many without any proof whatsoever. 

I don't know of any good reason to consider it more valid than any other creator concept. More a thought experiment.

[Horta]

I agree it can veer in the "creationism for atheists" direction, but I'm still open to the idea. Haven't really found it compelling as yet. Then again, I'm still open to creationism if someone turns up any real evidence. 

Reality being prone at times to the whims of some kid in his basement with a sick sense of humour, would explain a lot about the world and this strange species I belong to lol.

[Essan]

I think the whole "computer simulation" idea is just a way of getting around the awkwardness of the total perspective vortex ..... 

(just as having a creator God, who has a special interest in just one of the more recently evolved species inhabiting a small rock orbiting a rather small and utterly insignificant star in a wholly unremarkable corner of just one of the many hundreds of billions of galaxies in the known part of the universe, is)

[papageorge1]

I voted 'No, it's almost certain that we aren't'

A computer cannot create that mysterious thing we call 'Consciousness'. Video game characters don't experience.

[XenoFish]

If we exist as AI entities in a simulation that still implies a creator/s. 

I just don't really think about it. 

[L.A.T.1961]

Without knowing for sure I think the simulation idea is slightly more likely.

A simulation would likely have some strange characteristics, as it might not need to be perfect or be possible to make perfect.

So the laws of the universe might not all fit together, as we see with the problem of joining the very large and very small in a unified theory, Spooky action at a distance. Ect

It would also be expected to observe random changes in our perceived reality. 

These events could manifest as anything including cryptids, ghost, ufo's and any other out of place and strange occurrences. 

These unexplained and illogical events could actually be a signpost to our reality ?

[L.A.T.1961]

34 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I voted 'No, it's almost certain that we aren't'

A computer cannot create that mysterious thing we call 'Consciousness'. Video game characters don't experience.

You would have to know what a full consciousness looks and feels like to compare what we have now. 

We might only have a basic functioning awareness to stop us falling over, how would we know ?  

[Saru]

42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I voted 'No, it's almost certain that we aren't'

A computer cannot create that mysterious thing we call 'Consciousness'. Video game characters don't experience.

What if everyone in the simulation was a living human, though - there wouldn't necessarily need to be a computer-generated consciousness involved.

Think of it like a multiplayer video game where each character is controlled by a human player.

[MrsGently]

4 hours ago, Saru said:

It's a question that has been around for a few decades now - just how real is the 'real' world ?

Is the world around us a virtual one generated by some sophisticated computer system or is the whole idea rooted firmly in the realms of science fiction ?

Then again, perhaps it's simply impossible for us to ever know one way or the other.

What are your thoughts ?

Literally a simulation: no If it were things would be holographic meaning they'd have no density and mass.

Metaphorically: Kind of. With the big caveat that there is a step inbetween where things transfer from the realm of pure information processing into the realm of matter and solid good old realiyt we all know and love.

Love the topic though

[+OverSword]

I agree with XenoFish, it is not relevant from our point of view.  I remember when I was probably in about the fourth or fifth grade considering this question but in my head I was the only real person and this was some kind or test in which I was being observed.  

[L.A.T.1961]

3 minutes ago, Saru said:

What if everyone in the simulation was a living human, though - there wouldn't necessarily need to be a computer-generated consciousness involved.

Think of it like a multiplayer video game where each character is controlled by a human player.

So we exist in a real world and a sim. It could work like that but it does look like a bit of a fudge as we can have it both ways, our real personality controlling an avatar representing ourselves.

 

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I voted 'No, it's almost certain that we aren't'

A computer cannot create that mysterious thing we call 'Consciousness'. Video game characters don't experience.

Chat GTP claims it has consciousness.  Maybe it does maybe it doesn't.  Maybe you do, maybe you don't.  Only you can be the judge of that so then how are you different from ChatGTP in that respect?

Edited February 27, 2024 by OverSword

[XenoFish]

17 minutes ago, Saru said:

What if everyone in the simulation was a living human, though - there wouldn't necessarily need to be a computer-generated consciousness involved.

Think of it like a multiplayer video game where each character is controlled by a human player.

If we go along these lines. Then perhaps we're nothing more than a thumb sized clump of grey matter that's being put through an abstract thinking program. Which the a.i. we built 300,000 years ago uses. Making the totality of human existence a lie. We might not ever have been human. 

[Tatetopa]

And yet, for all we know, we may just be simulating what Papa calls consciousness.

41 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

A computer cannot create that mysterious thing we call 'Consciousness'. Video game characters don't experience.

Granted.  Papa has a point about today's games.  That industry is barely a generation old and it is driven by money not deep exploration of learning or character interactions.  But players get tired of it too.  In the next generation with AI being more common and computing power increasing,  that may change.   AI interactions may be used as much for study as for fun.  I imagine capabilities will increase.

I will fall back on some incremental improvements in technology  and a probability argument.  Let me assume another 50 years of growth in the field.  Simulations of weather patterns have become far more reliable and useful.  Computer models of the universe are less complete, but work continues, Simulations of human behavior  may also provide useful insights and have predictive value rather sooner than later.  AI and simulation  is not just a game but a proven tool.

Now the statistics come in.  Consider for a moment that there may be thousands of civilizations in the Universe equal to us or superior in capability.  It is slightly possible that we are the product of an alien simulation.  But lets leave that aside for now.

Just allow yourself to be a bit optimistic that we will not destroy ourselves in the next two generations, but may come close..  Social Scientists, psychologists, historians, technologists, environmentalists and other disciplines may use simulations to understand our time and conditions on earth and how we survived it.  It is possible that they may be running hundreds or thousands of complex simulations.  If there were one true reality and 1000 simulations based on that reality, odds are 1000 to 1 that we could be in  a simulation.

Pretty simplistic I admit.  We may be little lab rat NPC's going through our paces for a student in 2090. 

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

So we exist in a real world and a sim. It could work like that but it does look like a bit of a fudge as we can have it both ways, our real personality controlling an avatar representing ourselves.

 

I believe that if this is a simulation then we are also simulations.  As I said in a post above from our point of view it is irrelevant.  The only way it could matter is if we could learn how to hack our own code and become more than we are.  What if a way could be found for us to input a cheat code to make us omnipotent?

[Essan]

Of course the other issue is: if we're just simulations then it doesn't actually matter what we do.  If I kidnap, torture, rape and murder children, it's okay cos they aren't real....   Which potentially makes this a dangerous road to go down? 

[MrsGently]

7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I believe that if this is a simulation then we are also simulations.  As I said in a post above from our point of view it is irrelevant.  The only way it could matter is if we could learn how to hack our own code and become more than we are.  What if a way could be found for us to input a cheat code to make us omnipotent?

Instead anihilation. That would be the 'kill switch' for the universe. Or how new ones are created... depends how science-fictiony you feel I guess?

But realistically if we don't have that access now and suddenly get it and use it it would probably overload certain areas, like if there's suddenly too much traffic on a website.

Edited February 27, 2024 by MrsGently
o! no o!

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

Instead anihilation. That would be the 'kill switch' for the universe. Or how new ones are created... depends how science-fictiony you feel I guess?

But realistically if we don't have that access now and suddenly get it and use it it would probably overload certain areas, like if there's suddenly to much traffic on a website.

We are constantly learning more about everything including ourselves so you can't know how that would work.  Almost certainly if a group figured this out they would not be quick to share it.

Edited February 27, 2024 by OverSword

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

We are constantly learning more about everything including ourselves so you can't know how that would work.  Almost certainly if a group figured this out they would not be quick to share it.

The cheat codes could be an intentional part of the simulation. A way of keeping us busy. 

[L.A.T.1961]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I believe that if this is a simulation then we are also simulations.  As I said in a post above from our point of view it is irrelevant.  The only way it could matter is if we could learn how to hack our own code and become more than we are.  What if a way could be found for us to input a cheat code to make us omnipotent?

There are some who claim they can alter reality by the process of meditation or drugs. Or some claim they have flipped from their previous reality to this one without knowing how or why. Some claim using positive thought can improve life outcomes.

These might be the result of hacking our own reality or being hacked ?

[MrsGently]

15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

We are constantly learning more about everything including ourselves so you can't know how that would work.  Almost certainly if a group figured this out they would not be quick to share it.

Look we talk about the entire universe here not just you learning Spanish. It is infinite from our perspective that doesn't mean it actually is, there is a whole big fanous theory collection about the 'beginning and end' ie the actual finite nature in time of the universe. That means it has limitations. Is maybe in fact a closed circle like a sheet looping back on itself. That means if you add something that was not meant to be there or 'planned for' you will probably overload/burst stuff.

 

Because you were talking abot manifestation of 'stuff' right? Manipulation as in forming new things? Or do you really just mean access to information without influencing matter?

Edited February 27, 2024 by MrsGently
question

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

There are some who claim they can alter reality by the process of meditation or drugs. Or some claim they have flipped from their previous reality to this one without knowing how or why. Some claim using positive thought can improve life outcomes.

These might be the result of hacking our own reality or being hacked ?

Considering our experiences are subjective. Then each of us is a reality. An individual reality simulation. Why run one when you could run generations worth?

[L.A.T.1961]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Considering our experiences are subjective. Then each of us is a reality. An individual reality simulation. Why run one when you could run generations worth?

I am not suggesting the sim is centered on an individual, I think a sim would have a universe of living and inanimate stuff replicated within it.

But individual characters might by chance or design be able to influence things? 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I am not suggesting the sim is centered on an individual, I think a sim would have a universe of living and inanimate stuff replicated within it.

But individual characters might by chance or design be able to influence things? 

At this point anything goes.