How the Brexit dream was lost (Telegraph)

[pellinore]

Even the right-wing, Tory-supporting Telegraph is now publishing the truth. There is no point pretending anymore, I suppose.

The dream was Singapore-on-Thames, a low tax, small state, lightly regulated economy that, freed from the shackles of European instruction, could thrive anew on the world stage.

Nearly eight years after the 2016 referendum, the reality is of a still deeply divided nation heading, according to new analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, not towards some kind of low tax, super competitive, economic nirvana, but the highest tax burden since the Second World War, with the state some 3 to 4 percentage points bigger as a share of national income than it was before the vote for Brexit.

It was up to Brexit’s political cheerleaders to make something out of Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, whatever the obstacles, but they failed. They over promised and under delivered, and the presiding government is now about to reap the whirlwind.

This was not because the bureaucrats betrayed them, or even the rather more credible excuse of the pandemic; it was because the vision of Singapore-on-Thames was always a fantasy that would never be capable of uniting the nation behind it.

Everyone wants low taxes, but on the whole they also want top drawer public services, a credible military, a free at the point of use National Health Service, and triple-locked state pensions.

Geo-political forces are pushing Britain and Europe back together (archive.org)

Edited February 29 by pellinore

[Destination Unknown]

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

Even the right-wing, Tory-supporting Telegraph is now publishing the truth. There is no point pretending anymore, I suppose.

The dream was Singapore-on-Thames, a low tax, small state, lightly regulated economy that, freed from the shackles of European instruction, could thrive anew on the world stage.

Nearly eight years after the 2016 referendum, the reality is of a still deeply divided nation heading, according to new analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, not towards some kind of low tax, super competitive, economic nirvana, but the highest tax burden since the Second World War, with the state some 3 to 4 percentage points bigger as a share of national income than it was before the vote for Brexit.

It was up to Brexit’s political cheerleaders to make something out of Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, whatever the obstacles, but they failed. They over promised and under delivered, and the presiding government is now about to reap the whirlwind.

This was not because the bureaucrats betrayed them, or even the rather more credible excuse of the pandemic; it was because the vision of Singapore-on-Thames was always a fantasy that would never be capable of uniting the nation behind it.

Everyone wants low taxes, but on the whole they also want top drawer public services, a credible military, a free at the point of use National Health Service, and triple-locked state pensions.

Geo-political forces are pushing Britain and Europe back together (archive.org)

Meanwhile, from the exact same Telegraph just a few days ago (26th February 2024), quote: "The eurozone is about to go bust"

Strange how you conveniently "forgot" to mention this one eh pellinore, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that when that happens, the further away the UK is from being involved, the better, because the fallout from that happening will make the 2008 Global Financial Crisis seem like the good old days, and any perceived negative economic impact from Brexit will be a walk in the park by comparison. 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/26/the-eurozone-could-soon-go-bust/

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Meanwhile, from the exact same Telegraph just a few days ago (26th February 2024), quote: "The eurozone is about to go bust"

Strange how you conveniently "forgot" to mention this one eh pellinore, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that when that happens, the further away the UK is from being involved, the better, because the fallout from that happening will make the 2008 Global Financial Crisis seem like the good old days, and any perceived negative economic impact from Brexit will be a walk in the park by comparison. 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/26/the-eurozone-could-soon-go-bust/

My primary concern is the UK, not other sovereign countries in the EU. As I have said, as soon as I see an article that shows how Brexit has benefited the UK, I will gladly post it, with profuse apologies for being a pessimist.

Just how can you suggest the Eurozone going bust is a Brexit benefit? Did Brexit cause it? Does the UK benefit? Would the UK have been affected if we had been in the single market (bear in mind we had many opt outs, including the Euro- though we may have to accept the Euro when we rejoin in a few years' time). No to all these questions. Being in the single market would have kept our costs down and our trade up. 

No, when Mr Brexit Nigel Farage says Brexit has failed and the Tory cheerleader newspapers agree, it is time to accept the truth.

The public has accepted it has failed - they would rather be wealthy and part of Europe, than be poor, isolated and trading with the Pacific Islands for coconuts and mangoes.

Edited February 29 by pellinore

[Destination Unknown]

7 minutes ago, pellinore said:

My primary concern is the UK, not other sovereign countries in the EU. As I have said, as soon as I see an article that shows how Brexit has benefited the UK, I will gladly post it, with profuse apologies for being a pessimist.

Just how can you suggest the Eurozone going bust is a Brexit benefit? Did Brexit cause it? Does the UK benefit? Would the UK have been affected if we had been in the single market (bear in mind we had many opt outs, including the Euro- though we may have to accept the Euro when we rejoin in a few years' time). No to all these questions. Being in the single market would have kept our costs down and our trade up. 

No, when Mr Brexit Nigel Farage says Brexit has failed and the Tory cheerleader newspapers agree, it is time to accept the truth.

The public has accepted it has failed - they would rather be wealthy and part of Europe, than be poor, isolated and trading with the Pacific Islands for coconuts and mangoes.

Stop lying pellinore. I've given you numerous articles showing you how Brexit has benefited the UK, but you STILL haven't posted them have you, so why continue to flat out lie through your teeth?

I'll tell what you HAVEN'T done though pellinore, because you can't, is post how selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate would benefit the UK.

It may come as a bit of a shock to you pellinore, but not everyone is like you and wants to see their country consumed into one large lump of European "states" ultimately answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels.

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[OpenMindedSceptic]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

My primary concern is the UK, not other sovereign countries in the EU. As I have said, as soon as I see an article that shows how Brexit has benefited the UK, I will gladly post it, with profuse apologies for being a pessimist.

Just how can you suggest the Eurozone going bust is a Brexit benefit? Did Brexit cause it? Does the UK benefit? Would the UK have been affected if we had been in the single market (bear in mind we had many opt outs, including the Euro- though we may have to accept the Euro when we rejoin in a few years' time). No to all these questions. Being in the single market would have kept our costs down and our trade up. 

No, when Mr Brexit Nigel Farage says Brexit has failed and the Tory cheerleader newspapers agree, it is time to accept the truth.

The public has accepted it has failed - they would rather be wealthy and part of Europe, than be poor, isolated and trading with the Pacific Islands for coconuts and mangoes.

Where's your post on the Australia deal then? The one that added billions to the UK economy as widely reported? Meanwhile UK does benefit by being out of the economic turmoil that is the EU, let them default and the UK can swoop in to buy up the fire sale stock that is the EU. 

The EU is failing right now with much bigger issues than the UK whilst the UK is stable and growing. I know because I have to put my money where my mouth is in my businesses. The EU is impossible to invest in for the foreseeable. If you think the EU is so great, let's meet. I will then help you invest your pension and current account money in solely EU based investments to align an investment portfolio, as you seem to think they're a great investment and the returns in your head will be most impressive. 

Oh look, nobody else wants to invest using that logic.

[pellinore]

14 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Where's your post on the Australia deal then?

I didn't want to mention it, but since you brought it up:

The trade agreements – the first of those negotiated after Britain’s EU exit to enter into force – come after George Eustice, who was the environment secretary when the UK-Australia trade pact was struck in December 2021, admitted it was “not actually a very good deal” for Britain.

The government’s own calculations estimate that the deal will have a negligible long-term contribution to the British economy, forecasting it will increase UK GDP by only 0.08%, or £2.3bn a year, by 2035.

This has prompted criticism in Britain that the deals were one-sided, and especially disadvantaged British farmers.

UK’s post-Brexit trade deals with Australia and New Zealand kick in | International trade | The Guardian

Edited March 1 by pellinore

[OpenMindedSceptic]

4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I didn't want to mention it, but since you brought it up:

The trade agreements – the first of those negotiated after Britain’s EU exit to enter into force – come after George Eustice, who was the environment secretary when the UK-Australia trade pact was struck in December 2021, admitted it was “not actually a very good deal” for Britain.

The government’s own calculations estimate that the deal will have a negligible long-term contribution to the British economy, forecasting it will increase UK GDP by only 0.08%, or £2.3bn a year, by 2035.

This has prompted criticism in Britain that the deals were one-sided, and especially disadvantaged British farmers.

UK’s post-Brexit trade deals with Australia and New Zealand kick in | International trade | The Guardian

£2.3Bn extra, and only the Guardian saying this is a negative.

[pellinore]

17 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

£2.3Bn extra, and only the Guardian saying this is a negative.

Of course it is a negative, and it is recognised as such by everyone, not just the Guardian. George Eustace said it was a bad deal, one he was freed from a ministerial role and was free to comment on it. There is clip on YT of Australian commentators laughing at the UK.

It is peanuts. The UK's turnover is measure in trillions annually.

Even one international company like Amazon can earn hundreds of times more than the UK will make out of the Australia deal - which is predicted to raise UK GDP by only 0.08% over 15 years.

Amazon annual gross profit for 2022 was $225.152B, a 14.01% increase from 2021. 

 

 

Edited March 1 by pellinore

[OpenMindedSceptic]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

Of course it is a negative, and it is recognised as such by everyone, not just the Guardian. George Eustace said it was a bad deal, one he was freed from a ministerial role and was free to comment on it. There is clip on YT of Australian commentators laughing at the UK.

It is peanuts. The UK's turnover is measure in trillions annually.

Even one international company like Amazon can earn hundreds of times more than the UK will make out of the Australia deal - which is predicted to raise UK GDP by only 0.08% over 15 years.

Amazon annual gross profit for 2022 was $225.152B, a 14.01% increase from 2021. 

 

 

Let's get you invested fully in the EU stocks and shares. You mustn't miss out now, put your money in, all of it. We will invest in the big countries only, Germany and France. 

[Unusual Tournament]

On 3/1/2024 at 8:37 AM, Destination Unknown said:

Stop lying pellinore. I've given you numerous articles showing you how Brexit has benefited the UK, but you STILL haven't posted them have you, so why continue to flat out lie through your teeth?

I'll tell what you HAVEN'T done though pellinore, because you can't, is post how selling our country out to a wannabe federal European Superstate would benefit the UK.

It may come as a bit of a shock to you pellinore, but not everyone is like you and wants to see their country consumed into one large lump of European "states" ultimately answerable to a Politburo based in Brussels.

There are no benefits to Brexit. Simple mathematics tells you you cannot subtract free trade and replace it with a lesser form and claim victory. 

[Destination Unknown]

25 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

There are no benefits to Brexit. Simple mathematics tells you you cannot subtract free trade and replace it with a lesser form and claim victory. 

"Free trade", that cost us some £10bn of UK taxpayers money every single year in perpetuity just so the rest of the EU could sell more of their stuff to us than we ever sold to them. 🤦

Meanwhile, in the real world outside of the Remoaners perpetual version of doom and gloom, British car manufacturing output growing 21% in January year in year, to 82,997 units, the fifth straight month in a row of growth. Export volumes were also up 11.6%, whilst production for the UK market surged by 64.5%.

(Note: The bulk of production was for export (75.8%), with the EU the largest market for British-built cars, taking more than half (53.2%) of exports, proof once again that Leave voters were right, we don't actually "need" to be in the EU/Single Market in order to be able to sell to the EU). 🤔

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2024/02/uk-car-production-off-to-a-fast-start-in-january/

Edited March 2 by Destination Unknown