Food trade bodies consider legal action over post-Brexit ‘not for EU’ labelling

[pellinore]

Food industry trade bodies are discussing whether to take legal action against the government over post-Brexit plans that will require all meat and dairy products sold in the UK to be labelled as “not for EU”.

Food producers say the labelling could add £250m a year to their costs, further fuelling inflation, and they are discussing a legal challenge as a viable option if a solution with the government is not found.

One body said it was already consulting lawyers to examine its options if “sensible alternatives” to the plan were not put forward.

As part of the Windsor framework agreed with the EU last year, since October 2023 all meat and dairy products sent from Britain to be sold in Northern Ireland have had to carry a “not for EU” label.

Food trade bodies consider legal action over post-Brexit ‘not for EU’ labelling | Food & drink industry | The Guardian

Edited February 29 by pellinore

[Duke Wellington]

4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Food industry trade bodies are discussing whether to take legal action against the government over post-Brexit plans that will require all meat and dairy products sold in the UK to be labelled as “not for EU”.

Food producers say the labelling could add £250m a year to their costs, further fuelling inflation, and they are discussing a legal challenge as a viable option if a solution with the government is not found.

One body said it was already consulting lawyers to examine its options if “sensible alternatives” to the plan were not put forward.

As part of the Windsor framework agreed with the EU last year, since October 2023 all meat and dairy products sent from Britain to be sold in Northern Ireland have had to carry a “not for EU” label.

Food trade bodies consider legal action over post-Brexit ‘not for EU’ labelling | Food & drink industry | The Guardian

How exactly would it add £250 million per year in costs?

I mean food producers routinely change the artwork on their packaging. Its a case of design it, send it to the packaging company they use, and that company just uses the new design on the packaging. Its a £300 job once.

[Destination Unknown]

35 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Food industry trade bodies are discussing whether to take legal action against the government over post-Brexit plans that will require all meat and dairy products sold in the UK to be labelled as “not for EU”.

Food producers say the labelling could add £250m a year to their costs, further fuelling inflation, and they are discussing a legal challenge as a viable option if a solution with the government is not found.

One body said it was already consulting lawyers to examine its options if “sensible alternatives” to the plan were not put forward.

As part of the Windsor framework agreed with the EU last year, since October 2023 all meat and dairy products sent from Britain to be sold in Northern Ireland have had to carry a “not for EU” label.

Food trade bodies consider legal action over post-Brexit ‘not for EU’ labelling | Food & drink industry | The Guardian

And did those same food industry trade bodies take legal action against the EU for the amount of jargon the EU has ruled is required on food packaging, or did they just get on with it and put it on their packaging without a fuss? 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/food-labelling/general-rules/index_en.htm

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[+OverSword]

Why bother labeling it not for EU?

[pellinore]

50 minutes ago, Electric Scooter said:

How exactly would it add £250 million per year in costs?

I mean food producers routinely change the artwork on their packaging. Its a case of design it, send it to the packaging company they use, and that company just uses the new design on the packaging. Its a £300 job once.

My word, are you thick! You know nothing about economics. It will stifle investment, for one thing! It costs millions to bring products to the market, restricting your market to 65 million people rather that 550 million people makes it instantly less valuable. It gets worse- CE/EU products are recognised world-wide- UKCA mark products aren't. The UK will lose the world markets for produce. So, UK companies have to run two production lines if they want to trade in the UK and the EU! It gets even worse- consumers are put off buying "Not for EU" products because they don't know if they are of the same high standard of the EU. They may be, but without standardisation, how does anyone know?

Edited February 29 by pellinore

[pellinore]

1 minute ago, Destination Unknown said:

And did those same food industry trade bodies take legal action against the EU for the amount of jargon the EU says is required on food packaging, or did they just get on with it and just put it on their packaging without a peep? 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/food-labelling/general-rules/index_en.htm

What you call jargon normal people call information.

[pellinore]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Why bother labeling it not for EU?

Because the UK has no import controls, and its food standards are no longer internationally recognised. In fact, the UK now imports condemned meat for human consumption and the EU doesn't want it in their food market. To continue trading with the EU we need to conform to their rules.

[Destination Unknown]

7 minutes ago, pellinore said:

What you call jargon normal people call information.

And labelling something as being "not for EU" is also information, because it tells normal people that... wait for it... that it's not for the EU. 🤦

So did those same food industry trade bodies take legal action against the EU for the amount of "information" the EU has ruled is required on food packaging, or did they just get on with it and put it on their packaging without a fuss? 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/food-labelling/general-rules/index_en.htm

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Because the UK has no import controls, and its food standards are no longer internationally recognised. In fact, the UK now imports condemned meat for human consumption and the EU doesn't want it in their food market. To continue trading with the EU we need to conform to their rules.

I still say why bother?  If it's not being exported then it's not for the EU.

[Destination Unknown]

10 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Because the UK has no import controls, and its food standards are no longer internationally recognised. In fact, the UK now imports condemned meat for human consumption and the EU doesn't want it in their food market. To continue trading with the EU we need to conform to their rules.

You don't half come out with some nonsense pellinore.

According to a report published by the 'Food and Drink Federation' ('FDF') in September 2023, food and drink achieved record export figures for the first half of 2023.... driven by growing EU demand. 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/news-media/press-releases/2023-press-releases/record-uk-food-and-drink-exports-driven-by-growing-eu-demand/

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[Destination Unknown]

33 minutes ago, pellinore said:

consumers are put off buying "Not for EU" products because they don't know they are of the high standard of the EU.

Rubbish. Even Brussels knows that's not true. The only reason consumers think otherwise is because of constant scaremongering from people like you, so why are you spreading blatant lies pellinore?

From 'The Brussels Times', 9th January 2024, quote: "Many British people think that the 'Not for EU' label on a number of food products in supermarkets means that they are not of sufficient quality for the EU. However, this is not the case." 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://www.brusselstimes.com/868500/new-not-for-eu-food-labels-cause-confusion-in-uk

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[pellinore]

11 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

You don't half come out with some nonsense pellinore.

According to a report published by the 'Food and Drink Federation' ('FDF') in September 2023, food and drink achieved record export figures for the first half of 2023.... driven by growing EU demand. 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/news-media/press-releases/2023-press-releases/record-uk-food-and-drink-exports-driven-by-growing-eu-demand/

The only time I will buy food labelled "Not for EU" will be for my dog (and even then, I will worry a bit, as she is the love of my life). You Brexiters can enjoy your sovereignty and condemned meat as much as you like!

Edited February 29 by pellinore

[pellinore]

16 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I still say why bother?  If it's not being exported then it's not for the EU.

If countries can't export, they can't earn money. To put it simply, it's like going out to work. If you stay at home unemployed, you don't lose money, but you don't earn any either. Eventually you starve.

[Destination Unknown]

2 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The only time I will buy food labelled "Not for EU" will be for my dog (and even then, I will worry a bit, as she is the love of my life). You Brexiters can enjoy your sovereignty and condemned meat as much as you like!

According to the latest 'Global Food Security Index' ('GFSI'), which considers the core issues of "Affordability", "Availability" and "Quality and Safety", the UK is ranked 9th out of 113 countries, which is way above popular EU vassals Spain (20th), Italy (27th), and Greece (31st), so maybe it would be better for your beloved EU to have their foodstuffs labelled as "Not for UK", to help prevent their sub-standard EU food from entering the UK market. 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/

[pellinore]

3 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

According to the latest 'Global Food Security Index' ('GFSI'), which considers the core issues of "Affordability", "Availability" and "Quality and Safety", the UK is ranked 9th out of 113 countries, which is way above popular EU vassals Spain (20th), Italy (27th), and Greece (31st), so maybe it would be better for your beloved EU to have their foodstuffs labelled as "Not for UK", to help prevent their sub-standard EU food from entering the UK market. 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/

And this is a Brexit benefit? In your next post, explain how this is a benefit of Brexit. You Brexiters are quite mad.

[Destination Unknown]

17 minutes ago, pellinore said:

And this is a Brexit benefit? In your next post, explain how this is a benefit of Brexit. You Brexiters are quite mad.

Where did I even sugest that it was a Brexit benefit pellinore? 🤔

Ahhh yes, that's right, I didn't did I. 🤦

I quite clearly posted it in order to counter your deliberately misleading claim that UK food is somehow of a lower quality than EU food.

Edited February 29 by Destination Unknown

[+OverSword]

52 minutes ago, pellinore said:

If countries can't export, they can't earn money. To put it simply, it's like going out to work. If you stay at home unemployed, you don't lose money, but you don't earn any either. Eventually you starve.

Not for sale in the EU label on a food that is not exported to the EU still makes zero sense to me.  Sorry. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

My word, are you thick! You know nothing about economics. It will stifle investment, for one thing! It costs millions to bring products to the market, restricting your market to 65 million people rather that 550 million people makes it instantly less valuable. It gets worse- CE/EU products are recognised world-wide- UKCA mark products aren't. The UK will lose the world markets for produce. So, UK companies have to run two production lines if they want to trade in the UK and the EU! It gets even worse- consumers are put off buying "Not for EU" products because they don't know if they are of the same high standard of the EU. They may be, but without standardisation, how does anyone know?

You got that from updating the packaging artwork going to Ireland? I found a song for you:

Just replace all the crazy for you lines with crazy for EU!!!

Edited March 1 by Electric Scooter

[Ozymandias]

12 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

According to a report published by the 'Food and Drink Federation' ('FDF') in September 2023, food and drink achieved record export figures for the first half of 2023.... driven by growing EU demand. 🤦👇👇👇👇

https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/news-media/press-releases/2023-press-releases/record-uk-food-and-drink-exports-driven-by-growing-eu-demand/

'Driven by growing EU demand'?!?!?!!! As usual, Destination Unknown cherry picks and spins the evidence to promote his own deluded Brexit agenda. There is no growing EU demand. Quite the opposite. The record export figures for the first half of 2023 relate to the monetary value of those exports, the 4% increase being due entirely to inflation and has nothing to do with inceased EU demand. The report says this 4% increase was 'driven by 7.6% growth to the EU'. The volume of exports actually declined. The UK is exporting less to the EU than it did before. Here are the figures provided by the report you reference:-

Clearly, the volumes of your top ten exports are down quite considerably in everything but 'Milk & Cream' and possibly 'Soft Drinks'. Now look what the same report says about your imports:

 Despite a significant decline in the volume of many imports, look at the increase inflation has wrought on their cost to the UK consumer. So much for Global Britain and Brexit delivering cheap food to the UK consumer. 

[Destination Unknown]

59 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

'Driven by growing EU demand'?!?!?!!! As usual, Destination Unknown cherry picks and spins the evidence to promote his own deluded Brexit agenda. There is no growing EU demand. Quite the opposite. The record export figures for the first half of 2023 relate to the monetary value of those exports, the 4% increase being due entirely to inflation and has nothing to do with inceased EU demand. The report says this 4% increase was 'driven by 7.6% growth to the EU'. The volume of exports actually declined. The UK is exporting less to the EU than it did before. Here are the figures provided by the report you reference:-

Clearly, the volumes of your top ten exports are down quite considerably in everything but 'Milk & Cream' and possibly 'Soft Drinks'. Now look what the same report says about your imports:

 Despite a significant decline in the volume of many imports, look at the increase inflation has wrought on their cost to the UK consumer. So much for Global Britain and Brexit delivering cheap food to the UK consumer. 

Ahhh Ozy, I wondered when you'd pipe up, sticking your nose into UK affairs, whilst totally ignoring what's going on in your beloved EU, or, more specifically, what's going on in your beloved EU regarding your own country (EU vassal Ireland), considering the EU Court of Justice has just yesterday (29th February 2024) imposed a fine of €2.5m on Ireland for failing to transpose an EU directive on the provision of audiovisual services, and has also ordered Ireland to pay an additional daily penalty of €10,000 to the European Commission for as long as the failure to comply with the directive continues, which the Irish media regulator, 'Coimisiún na Meán', who is currently finalising the Online Safety Code to regulate video-sharing platforms, says will not be ready until later this year. 🤔

So much for being a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union then. Isn't it great being an EU vassal eh Ozy? 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0229/1435123-ireland-fine/

Edited March 1 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

'Driven by growing EU demand'?!?!?!!! As usual, Destination Unknown cherry picks and spins the evidence to promote his own deluded Brexit agenda. There is no growing EU demand. Quite the opposite. The record export figures for the first half of 2023 relate to the monetary value of those exports, the 4% increase being due entirely to inflation and has nothing to do with inceased EU demand. The report says this 4% increase was 'driven by 7.6% growth to the EU'. The volume of exports actually declined. The UK is exporting less to the EU than it did before. Here are the figures provided by the report you reference:-

Clearly, the volumes of your top ten exports are down quite considerably in everything but 'Milk & Cream' and possibly 'Soft Drinks'. Now look what the same report says about your imports:

 Despite a significant decline in the volume of many imports, look at the increase inflation has wrought on their cost to the UK consumer. So much for Global Britain and Brexit delivering cheap food to the UK consumer. 

Can we have the link as I only see some charts but no indication anywhere of them of anything to do with the UK. The data you posted is also focused on food only.  

Furthermore here is data from UK trade in numbers (web version) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) downloaded from part 2:

The above is high level data not giving a breakdown by sector. But if anything it shows that Brexit has boosted both imports and exports with the EU. It also shows a significant boost in UK exports to the rest of the world along with a even better reduction of our trade balance with them.

If your data relates to the UK it only shows they are eating less of our foods, which raises the question due to the growth of exports to the EU of what is it that they are buying from us in higher quantities?

Going off the data above it would seem Brexit has been a success for both the UK and the EU, and the losers have been the rest of the world. Thats a result that no doubt all of us will be scratching our heads at as I expected the EU to suffer, and you expected the UK to suffer haha.

The drop in food exports in terms of value (if real) would also be expected due to food inflation. That wont be us exporting less in value, it will be us making less profit as margins are squeezed.

Edited March 1 by Electric Scooter

[Duke Wellington]

Same link, found it:

It seems we are taking over the Germans car industry and exporting a lot of generators, drugs, and oil.

[Ozymandias]

2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Ahhh Ozy, I wondered when you'd pipe up, sticking your nose into UK affairs, whilst totally ignoring what's going on in your beloved EU, or, more specifically, what's going on in your beloved EU regarding your own country (EU vassal Ireland), considering the EU Court of Justice has just yesterday (29th February 2024) imposed a fine of €2.5m on Ireland for failing to transpose an EU directive on the provision of audiovisual services, and has also ordered Ireland to pay an additional daily penalty of €10,000 to the European Commission for as long as the failure to comply with the directive continues, which the Irish media regulator, 'Coimisiún na Meán', who is currently finalising the Online Safety Code to regulate video-sharing platforms, says will not be ready until later this year. 🤔

So much for being a sovereign nation whilst being a member of the European Union then. Isn't it great being an EU vassal eh Ozy? 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0229/1435123-ireland-fine/

A pathetic diversionary tactic! Can't you stay on topic? This thread is about the 'Not for EU' labelling.

Ireland's current government have been rightly and appropriately fined for not following through on the commitments they undertook with the EU.

As to the rest of your 'coat trailing', it won't work on me. Calling Ireland a vassal state is water off a duck's back to me and any other intelligent and well-informed Irishman. I explained this to you before: Ireland and 26 other European sovereign nations are in a Single Market by consensus. We have all agreed the rules and abide by them. You are barking up the wrong tree with that one and wasting your time.  

[Duke Wellington]

14 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

A pathetic diversionary tactic! Can't you stay on topic? This thread is about the 'Not for EU' labelling.

Ireland's current government have been rightly and appropriately fined for not following through on the commitments they undertook with the EU.

As to the rest of your 'coat trailing', it won't work on me. Calling Ireland a vassal state is water off a duck's back to me and any other intelligent and well-informed Irishman. I explained this to you before: Ireland and 26 other European sovereign nations are in a Single Market by consensus. We have all agreed the rules and abide by them. You are barking up the wrong tree with that one and wasting your time.  

Your self-flagellation is similar to a battered wife saying she deserved it.

As regards Ireland being a vassal state then legally you are. Specifically, a German vassal. As soon as the EU forms an army and stations itself onto your territory then you are forever trapped. Should you try to escape then going off your own rose tinted attitude I wouldn`t be surprised to find Irish soldiers shooting Irish `rebels` while denying to themselves the reality of the situation.

Currently the EU is messing with both of us using Northern Ireland as its chess piece. This is also why I am against helping the EU expand eastwards with its attempted takeover of Ukraine. It could so easy turn on the UK and do the same to us with Northern Ireland. In fact, its all been setup exactly for that.

[Ozymandias]

1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

Can we have the link as I only see some charts but no indication anywhere of them of anything to do with the UK. The data you posted is also focused on food only.  

It's the same one Unknown Destination gave and which I re-quoted in my own post. It is a Food and Drink Federation report from September 2023. Click on the link, scroll down to first paragraph and click on 'FDF Trade Snapshot H1' (in bold text). Scroll down again to 'Download (184kb)' and you will find the tables I made screenshots of. 

1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

Furthermore here is data from UK trade in numbers (web version) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) downloaded from part 2:

The above is high level data not giving a breakdown by sector. But if anything it shows that Brexit has boosted both imports and exports with the EU.

That shows total exports and imports for goods and services by monetary value, not volume. We all know that their monetary value has increased as a result of inflation. When you look at goods only, the same ONS report shows the following data:

 

Clearly, even in pure monetary terms, these graphs show a decline in your total goods imports and exports. The only thing keeping their monetary value higher year on year is the addition of services. Crucially, the ONS report says:

'After removing the effect of inflation by calculating "chained volume measures" (explained in Section 10: Glossary), total goods imports decreased by £1.4 billion (3.6%) in December 2023 (Figure 2). Imports from non-EU countries fell by £0.7 billion (4.5%) and imports from the EU also fell by £0.7 billion (3.0%).'

The report also states that: 'After the effect of inflation has been removed, imports of services are £3.5 billion (18.8%) above February 2020 levels, and exports of services are £1.4 billion (4.7%) above February 2020.'

You seem to be importing more services than you export and the trend does not look promising: 

1 hour ago, Electric Scooter said:

If your data relates to the UK it only shows they are eating less of our foods, which raises the question due to the growth of exports to the EU of what is it that they are buying from us in higher quantities?

Quantities? The data you present only relates to monetary value, not quantity or volume. Take another look at the graphs I gave above.

 

It should now be obvious to you, if it was not before, that an increase in the monetary value of imports/exports due to inflation does not mean there has been an increase in the quantity or volume of your imports/exports. In fact, they have been decreasing.

Edited March 1 by Ozymandias