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Illuminati - Setting The Record Straight


MrsGently

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Posted (edited)

It is the year 1748 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria as Adam Weishaupt (wiki) was born. He lived basically when The Age Of Enlightenment (wiki) was at its zenith.

Yes he was kind of part of the elite of the time and received a for the time unusually good education, was early on familiar with some 'exotic' philosophies for his time and a rationalist who became a lawyer.

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At a time, however, when there was no end of making game of and abusing secret societies, I planned to make use of this human foible for a real and worthy goal, for the benefit of people. I wished to do what the heads of the ecclesiastical and secular authorities ought to have done by virtue of their offices ... (wiki Weishaupt)

In his own words we see that he admits, yes he wanted to change society for the better.

Quote

Even encyclopedia references vary on the goal of the order, such as Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) saying the Order was not egalitarian or democratic internally, but sought to promote the doctrines of equality and freedom throughout society; while others such as Collier's have said the aim was to combat religion and foster rationalism in its place. The Illuminati was formed with the vision of liberating humans from religious bondage and undermining corrupted governments. (wiki Weishaupt)

This naturally was not 'welcome politics' to many different groups, from the Catholic Church, to the monarchs of the time and the Masons (which were much more important and larger at that time than they are now).

So much so that they to this day use the term 'Illuminati' to discredit the few not even really organized people who would nowadays qualify as 'illuminati', ie rational compassionate people who want to uplift humanity to better standards.

Illuminati is a state of mind. And the organization is dead. But the spirit lives on.

illuminati.png

Edited by MrsGently
that's an 'ambigram' & cool right?
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2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

It is the year 1748 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria as Adam Weishaupt (wiki) was born. He lived basically when The Age Of Enlightenment (wiki) was at its zenith.

Yes he was kind of part of the elite of the time and received a for the time unusually good education, was early on familiar with some 'exotic' philosophies for his time and a rationalist who became a lawyer.

In his own words we see that he admits, yes he wanted to change society for the better.

This naturally was not 'welcome politics' to many different groups, from the Catholic Church, to the monarchs of the time and the Masons (which were much more important and larger at that time than they are now).

So much so that they to this day use the term 'Illuminati' to discredit the few not even really organized people who would nowadays qualify as 'illuminati', ie rational compassionate people who want to uplift humanity to better standards.

Illuminati is a state of mind. And the organization is dead. But the spirit lives on.

illuminati.png

Jaylemurph and I were accused of being Illuminati on more than one occasion here. We both took it as a compliment. 

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On 3/4/2024 at 9:17 AM, Piney said:

Jaylemurph and I were accused of being Illuminati on more than one occasion here. We both took it as a compliment. 

I used to get that here in the olden days. It was always hilarious to hear. 

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7 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I used to get that here in the olden days. It was always hilarious to hear. 

And all your trying to do is debunk bull****.

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Just now, Piney said:

And all your trying to do is debunk bull****.

The last couple years it's just been "government shill." Not so much since Obama left office, but man, i do wish i was getting paid to post, be it from the government or illuminati coffers. 

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Just now, Occupational Hubris said:

The last couple years it's just been "government shill." Not so much since Obama left office, but man, i do wish i was getting paid to post, be it from the government or illuminati coffers. 

I'm officially and member of the Rino Deep State.

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On 3/4/2024 at 10:16 PM, MrsGently said:

It is the year 1748 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria as Adam Weishaupt (wiki) was born. He lived basically when The Age Of Enlightenment (wiki) was at its zenith.

Yes he was kind of part of the elite of the time and received a for the time unusually good education, was early on familiar with some 'exotic' philosophies for his time and a rationalist who became a lawyer.

In his own words we see that he admits, yes he wanted to change society for the better.

This naturally was not 'welcome politics' to many different groups, from the Catholic Church, to the monarchs of the time and the Masons (which were much more important and larger at that time than they are now).

So much so that they to this day use the term 'Illuminati' to discredit the few not even really organized people who would nowadays qualify as 'illuminati', ie rational compassionate people who want to uplift humanity to better standards.

Illuminati is a state of mind. And the organization is dead. But the spirit lives on.

illuminati.png

Why not discuss the fall of the Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria?  They got up to some shenanigans against the Bavarian Crown and were dismantled by the Bavarian secret police (back when Bavaria was a sovereign country).  Most of the conspiracy theories relate to the survival of the Bavarian Illuminati in America and France and it's supposed role in the American War of Independence and French Revolution via infiltrating the Freemasons.  From my own readings, the AISB were proto-Communists.  They were also in the running for the GOAT feral book club.

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On 3/11/2024 at 6:04 AM, Alchopwn said:

Why not discuss the fall of the Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria?  They got up to some shenanigans against the Bavarian Crown and were dismantled by the Bavarian secret police (back when Bavaria was a sovereign country).  Most of the conspiracy theories relate to the survival of the Bavarian Illuminati in America and France and it's supposed role in the American War of Independence and French Revolution via infiltrating the Freemasons.  From my own readings, the AISB were proto-Communists.  They were also in the running for the GOAT feral book club.

That's a stretch though, they were recruiting from the Freemasons, that's just how it goes it was a natural step from the perspective of the time and circumstances that to those 'bleeding heart liberals' the worst that had happened to the peasants was other elitists and royalists.

I mean sure I am grateful for democracy if it was the Masons or the Illumiinati doesn't make any difference as it is mostly the 'same pool' of people. During a totalitarian monarchy there were 'nobles' wearing coats made from human skin. Nowadays we still get exploited but with at least some restrictions.

I don't know why but to me it read as if you think the War of Independence or the French Revolution were a bad thing to happen? How so? And communists is often the same as those who want egality and equal rights for all, so that is only in a very deluded mind or in the mind of a 1%er a justifyable anti-position. Everybody else benefits with more just distributred wealth and power on the shoulders of the citizenry instead of 'Chosen Heads by genes'

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16 hours ago, MrsGently said:

That's a stretch though, they were recruiting from the Freemasons

Not according to my readings.  The AISB were aspirant freemasons, who wanted to incorporate freemasonic rites into their feral book club, but never actually gained enough degrees.  I am far more pro-Freemason than I am AISB btw.  The Freemasons were one of the only egalitarian organizations in Europe for the longest time.

16 hours ago, MrsGently said:

I mean sure I am grateful for democracy if it was the Masons or the Illumiinati doesn't make any difference as it is mostly the 'same pool' of people. During a totalitarian monarchy there were 'nobles' wearing coats made from human skin. Nowadays we still get exploited but with at least some restrictions.

I know the Freemasons contributed far more to Democracy than the AISB.  The reason the Freemasons and AISB get bad press is because the RC Church hates them for undermining their rule.

16 hours ago, MrsGently said:

I don't know why but to me it read as if you think the War of Independence or the French Revolution were a bad thing to happen? 

No that's your interpretation of what I wrote.  I am not a fan of the French Revolution, but I'm not a fan of the Ancien Regime or Napoleon either.  Now I think of it, perhaps I'm just not much of a fan of France?  I mean Paris is nice enough in parts, and I can speak French, but every time I want to say something nice about things French, there are always so many caveats 🙄.  As far as the War of Independence goes, the main thing I am critical about is that it was waged so Americans could avoid being taxed to support a standing army. 🤣

16 hours ago, MrsGently said:

And communists is often the same as those who want egality and equal rights for all, so that is only in a very deluded mind or in the mind of a 1%er a justifyable anti-position.

No, Communism is straight-up snake oil.  Worse than Trump.  They talk a good fight, but all Communism produces is abject poverty, mass murder, and absolutist totalitarian dictatorship.  Communism in the 20th Century killed more people than Hitler and Genghis Khan combined.  Worse still, it wasn't all outright murder, vast numbers of people were killed because of economic mismanagement and incompetence on a catastrophically huge scale, leading to starvation and epidemics.

I would be the first to admit it if Communism was great.  I mean, if it delivered on all the wonderful things it promises, I'd be all for it.  Sadly the only true achievement of Communism as a form of government is that it is the ONLY form of government that is able to hang onto power when the population is experiencing mass starvation.  China, USSR, Cambodia etc. etc. 

Furthermore, Marx's critique of Capitalism in Das Kapital is very flawed.  He has next to zero appreciation of the role of management, and his theory of alienation is a nonsense.  People object to having lousy wages, not being "alienated from the fruits of their labor", in the sense that if they make shoes they should own and sell those shoes themselves, which is what Marx proposed.  Marx's fundamental lack of understanding of Capitalism specifically and economics more generally led to Communism coming unstuck on its own internal contradictions.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

...

No, Communism is straight-up snake oil.  Worse than Trump.  They talk a good fight, but all Communism produces is abject poverty, mass murder, and absolutist totalitarian dictatorship.  ...

Because there never was any Communism. We had Stalinism and Maoism and other fascist dictatorships claiming the label communism to pretend they do all of it for their people when in reality as you rightfully observed couldn't care less about their well-being.

Cooperatives and labour rights, that is the real communism. That can only go with democracy and some sort of breakdown of nationalism, or I should say reducing it to regionalism because every centralised power is a step towards totalitarianism. The opposite of communism.

Just like on the example of modern countries appropriating the label as 'opium for their peeps'

Russia: an oligarchic kleptocratic spookocracy

China: fascist technocratic one-party state

None of that has anything to do with Communism. Other than in name.

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I know the Freemasons contributed far more to Democracy than the AISB.  The reason the Freemasons and AISB get bad press is because the RC Church hates them for undermining their rule.

Not just the RC Church. But kind of.

I love France.

Edited by MrsGently
wtf is a weel-being?
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17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

Because there never was any Communism. We had Stalinism and Maoism and other fascist dictatorships claiming the label communism to pretend they do all of it for their people when in reality as you rightfully observed couldn't care less about their well-being.

I'm sorry to have to point this out to you, but the "There was never true Communism" argument is simply a variant of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. 

Consider, Marx is quite unequivocal about the need for military conflict to overthrow existing Capitalist governments.  This cannot be achieved without creating a cohesive and well organized military of one's own, which invariably requires an efficient military hierarchy to win.  While the Catalans in the 1930s and the Ukranian Anarchists during the Russian civil war demonstrated that volunteer anarchist militias are potentially effective fighting forces, they have no staying power, and no plan for what happens after the war, so they are not a viable alternative to a Red Army.  And after the revolution is won, it is invariably the Red Army that holds power, and the leader of the Red Army who becomes the "Dictator of the Prolateriat".  The story kept getting repeated around the world during the 20th Century, and the result was always the same...  Poverty, starvation, economic stagnation, incompetent dictatorship, and mass murder.

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

The boot cannot keep stamping on the human face indefinitely, it gets tired.  While there was some relaxation of military control in the USSR and eventually in China, they ran into a new problem.  The Leadership didn't know a thing about economics or governance.  Slogans weren't filling people's bellies or making people's lives better.  The Communists could criticize Capitalism, but they couldn't match it.  Well, that isn't true, the USSR could out-produce the USA in tractors, but the USSR tractors had no ball bearings or lubricant systems and burned out after 3 days use, leaving the collective farms with dozens of useless tractor hulks taking up land that was better put to other uses, and all with exactly the same defect, so they couldn't even be cannibalized for useful parts to fix the other tractors.  The level of incompetence, wasted resources, and corruption Communism creates is staggering. 

And collectively Communism has killed more people than Fascism ever did, which is a very uncomfortable fact, as far as I am concerned.

17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

Cooperatives and labour rights, that is the real communism.

Actually no.  That isn't Communism.  That is Social Democracy.  They are antithetical.  Most Communist countries ban Co-ops and non-Party Unions.

17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

That can only go with democracy and some sort of breakdown of nationalism, or I should say reducing it to regionalism because every centralised power is a step towards totalitarianism. The opposite of communism.

Haha, no.  Communism according to Marx is the centralization of all power into the hands of the Party.  Communism is implicitly totalitarian.  All loyalty is to be focused on the Party, all resources controlled by the Party, all military power under the command of the party, all labor conducted for the people under the central command of the party.  Communism has always also been implicitly nationalist, despite the internationalist rhetoric.  I don't want to bore you with multiple examples, but I can.  Do you want me to?

17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

Russia: an oligarchic kleptocratic spookocracy

Actually, due to Communist Propaganda, the Russians believed Al Capone was a great US Capitalist, and that criminal gangs are Capitalism.  The entirety of their privatization of assets was conducted by different Russian criminal syndicates, leading to the present Orcish state of affairs.

17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

China: fascist technocratic one-party state

I wouldn't call China technocratic.  Its research and technical development is a joke.  In general I agree with you however,

17 hours ago, MrsGently said:

I love France.

I would like to love France, but every time I think of something to like about the country and the culture, I always find too many flaws in the thing I am trying to like.   France is a muddling middling also-ran with huge squandered potential, and a vast number of dirty secrets.  Familiarity breeds contempt, I fear.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

... The level of incompetence, wasted resources, and corruption Communism creates is staggering. 

...

because it gets hijacked by people craving power for themself, that is still not what it is about though.

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...  Communism according to Marx is the centralization of all power into the hands of the Party. ...

 

really? I must have missed that, because as far as I know that is Mao and not Marx, but I bet you can show me the quote?

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...

Actually, due to Communist Propaganda, the Russians believed Al Capone was a great US Capitalist, and that criminal gangs are Capitalism.  The entirety of their privatization of assets was conducted by different Russian criminal syndicates, leading to the present Orcish state of affairs.

I wouldn't call China technocratic.  Its research and technical development is a joke.  In general I agree with you however,

...

China is using technological approaches to control their popilations and solve their economic and political problems. What else would you call that if not technocratic?

And on Russia is not 'actually' that is exactly what kleptocracy means.

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...I would like to love France, but every time I think of something to like about the country and the culture, I always find too many flaws in the thing I am trying to like.   France is a muddling middling also-ran with huge squandered potential, and a vast number of dirty secrets.  Familiarity breeds contempt, I fear.

wow ok. American I take it? Thank God the US is just flawless right and no dirty secrets anywhere lol

 

Edited by MrsGently
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23 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

because it gets hijacked by people craving power for themself, that is still not what it is about though.

Wait.  It is an inherent part of the script of the Communist disaster when it overtakes a country.  It happens literally every time.  Nobody ever fixes this problem.  It can't be fixed.  To win a war requires a successful Red Army and a successful Communist military leader.  That military leader then becomes the Communist dictator, every time, because power is in his hands.  THIS IS WHAT COMMUNISM IS.  The same script is run according to Marx and the same outcome is achieved every time, and the idiots of the world then say "this isn't Communism".  No.  This is what Communism is.  This is what it leads to, every time, ad infinitum.

29 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

really? I must have missed that, because as far as I know that is Mao and not Marx, but I bet you can show me the quote?

Surely you have read the Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels?  It's very short.

33 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

China is using technological approaches to control their popilations and solve their economic and political problems. What else would you call that if not technocratic?

Their technology is a low quality joke.  A clown with a white coat and a stethoscope isn't a doctor.

35 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

 

wow ok. American I take it? Thank God the US is just flawless right and no dirty secrets anywhere lol

 

Hey, the USA has plenty of flaws, and they are easy to criticize, but people take for granted all the good the USA has done in the world.  The USA's technical and humanitarian contribution to the world has been immense.  Too big in fact.  The main people doing the criticism are usually totalitarians I find.

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3 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Wait.  It is an inherent part of the script of the Communist disaster when it overtakes a country.  It happens literally every time.  Nobody ever fixes this problem.  It can't be fixed.  To win a war requires a successful Red Army and a successful Communist military leader.  That military leader then becomes the Communist dictator, every time, because power is in his hands.  THIS IS WHAT COMMUNISM IS. ...

No that is how it is if you have a violent revolution, that is what happens if you overthrow a republic with violence. If Trump rose to power and started being a dictator from day 1 throwing all dissidents into jail, would that make him a communist? No. Because that is just dictatorship. Can happen with every ideology that they get used by power hungry individuals to put themself on top of the entire country.

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...

Surely you have read the Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels?  It's very short. ...

well that should make it easier for you then to show me your quote on 'all power to the one party and the military', because it is Mao and not Marx or Engels so you will have a really hard time looking for it in the wrong book, but prove me wrong.

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...Their technology is a low quality joke.  A clown with a white coat and a stethoscope isn't a doctor.

...

ok wow. again. I'd say your racism is deluding your opinion on a lot of assessments of other nations - big time

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Hey, the USA has plenty of flaws, and they are easy to criticize, but people take for granted all the good the USA has done in the world.  The USA's technical and humanitarian contribution to the world has been immense.  Too big in fact.

Name three examples? What are you talking about here? How successful the War on Terror was? Democracy exporting to South America and Africa? Global diplomacy that gave us fantastic new opprtunities like the Cold War?

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On 4/4/2024 at 10:00 PM, MrsGently said:

No that is how it is if you have a violent revolution, that is what happens if you overthrow a republic with violence. 

So, you admit that the fundamental premise of a violent Communist revolution which doesn't end in a dictatorship is impossible.  Good.  I've made my point.

On 4/4/2024 at 10:00 PM, MrsGently said:

If Trump rose to power and started being a dictator from day 1 throwing all dissidents into jail, would that make him a communist?

What about if Trump called himself a Communist after he became dictator, like Castro did?

On 4/4/2024 at 10:00 PM, MrsGently said:

Can happen with every ideology that they get used by power hungry individuals to put themself on top of the entire country.

But wait.  If that is the case, surely Communists would put in place safeguards to prevent such a dictatorship from occurring?  I mean, it happens every time, so someone must have noticed by now that Communism always winds up with a dictatorship.  Why not create safeguards against this emergent dictatorship if it wasn't part of the plan all along?  Or can't it be done?  If it can't be done, then Communism is impossible.

I mean, the Founding Fathers of the USA were able to avoid installing George Washington as king, why can't Communists stop appointing their military leaders as dictators?

On 4/4/2024 at 10:00 PM, MrsGently said:

ok wow. again. I'd say your racism is deluding your opinion on a lot of assessments of other nations - big time

Clearly you have never bought anything from Temu.  I am a close China watcher.  Their tech sector is a horrific joke.  Pretty much all Chinese manufacture is defective in some way as they are always looking to scam and cut costs. Their buildings fall down with tragic regularity.  Their gas supply detonates with frightening frequency.  Their military is defective trash.  The only thing holding China together is the the police state.

On 4/4/2024 at 10:00 PM, MrsGently said:

Name three examples? What are you talking about here? How successful the War on Terror was? Democracy exporting to South America and Africa? Global diplomacy that gave us fantastic new opprtunities like the Cold War?

(1) USAID (2) Feed the Children (3) World Vision (4) Compassion International (5) AmeriCares and many many others amounting to billions of $US in charity to struggling nations, despite the fact that they are corrupt and incompetently led.  The US public is immensely generous, and so is our government.

Also...

(1) Powered Flight (2) The Internet (3) GPS (4) Affordable automobiles (5) Assembly Lines (6) Mobile Phones (7) Personal Computers (8) Cardiac Defibrilators (9) Microwave ovens (10) Trans Oceanic communications cables. Etc etc

The USA's contributions to modern medicine dwarf most country's.

Also...

We saved the world from the oppressive dictatorship and total loss of individual freedom embodied by Communist ideology, as well as dealing a death blow to several other totalitarian ideologies.

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2 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

So, you admit that the fundamental premise of a violent Communist revolution which doesn't end in a dictatorship is impossible.  Good.  I've made my point.

What about if Trump called himself a Communist after he became dictator, like Castro did?

But wait.  If that is the case, surely Communists would put in place safeguards to prevent such a dictatorship from occurring?  I mean, it happens every time, so someone must have noticed by now that Communism always winds up with a dictatorship.  Why not create safeguards against this emergent dictatorship if it wasn't part of the plan all along?  Or can't it be done?  If it can't be done, then Communism is impossible....

Again: every violent revolution ends in dictatorship, or military rule. Drop the Communist, it is all violent revolutions that end in a power struggle to fill the opened up vacant power position.

That is the issue, we need more democracy and anarchy, so every citizen is their own souvereign coming together in cooperatives and general: I do my thing to my best abilities and cooperate with those in my area to further our community

That is how communism will work.

Quote

...

Clearly you have never bought anything from Temu.  I am a close China watcher.  Their tech sector is a horrific joke.  Pretty much all Chinese manufacture is defective in some way as they are always looking to scam and cut costs. Their buildings fall down with tragic regularity.  Their gas supply detonates with frightening frequency.  Their military is defective trash.  The only thing holding China together is the the police state....

Clearly I never would, because I know that they still want revenge for the Opium Wars and are doing so by poisoning the world, scamming us with on purpose trash-products working around all restrictions on certain toxins that are technically prohibited from use in most Western countries but you can't control the volume sold over the internet. Where our laws get iffy.

However the actual technological capabilities of China are ****ing impressive, that is your issue you think 'what sells' is the standard, no those are just the 'pox blankets' for us in the West.

Quote

...

(1) Powered Flight (2) The Internet (3) GPS (4) Affordable automobiles (5) Assembly Lines (6) Mobile Phones (7) Personal Computers (8) Cardiac Defibrilators (9) Microwave ovens (10) Trans Oceanic communications cables. Etc etc

The USA's contributions to modern medicine dwarf most country's.

Also...

We saved the world from the oppressive dictatorship and total loss of individual freedom embodied by Communist ideology, as well as dealing a death blow to several other totalitarian ideologies.

And yet you are the country that even abandons its own citizens when they are going through a rough patch in their life, the richest country in the world with appaling homeless problems you don't want to solve because you fear the boogie man of 'communism'.

If you have to conjure private help organisations and technological inventions... and modern medicine which as it is practised really just a 'disease industry'... I feel sorry for you

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2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

Again: every violent revolution ends in dictatorship, or military rule. Drop the Communist, it is all violent revolutions that end in a power struggle to fill the opened up vacant power position.

So given that Communism is supposed to be so very intellectual and scientific, why do they have no answer to this problem when they stage a violent revolution?

2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

That is the issue, we need more democracy and anarchy,

If you need anarchy, go live in Somalia.  Anarchy is ugly.  I've seen it in real life.  Don't go there.

2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

so every citizen is their own souvereign coming together in cooperatives and general: I do my thing to my best abilities and cooperate with those in my area to further our community

 Oh FFS, you aren't a sovereign citizen libertarian are you?  Dumbest. Ideology. Ever.🤣

2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

That is how communism will work.

No.   Sovereign citizen libertarianism is NOT Communism.  They are entirely different in their aims, their methods, their theory and their outcomes.  There is no point of similarity between them and both promise the world but will come unstuck faster than a post it note in a cyclone.

3 hours ago, MrsGently said:

Clearly I never would, because I know that they still want revenge for the Opium Wars and are doing so by poisoning the world, scamming us with on purpose trash-products working around all restrictions on certain toxins that are technically prohibited from use in most Western countries but you can't control the volume sold over the internet. Where our laws get iffy.

 No.  China wants to become the global hegemon. They are just really bad at everything.  They thought because corporations were investing in them that they were going to win.  Then they unleashed COVID deliberately to destabilize the global economy, and it blew up in their faces.  I repeat. China is bad at everything.  Personally I never buy anything made in China if there is any other choice.  I'd sooner buy something made in Iran, and I really don't want to buy anything made in Iran.

3 hours ago, MrsGently said:

However the actual technological capabilities of China are ****ing impressive, that is your issue you think 'what sells' is the standard, no those are just the 'pox blankets' for us in the West.

I don't think we mean the same thing when we talk about technological capabilities.  Give me an example of what you mean, please?

3 hours ago, MrsGently said:

And yet you are the country that even abandons its own citizens when they are going through a rough patch in their life, the richest country in the world with appaling homeless problems you don't want to solve because you fear the boogie man of 'communism'.

You don't understand the American outlook.  We are individualists.  We take pride in looking after ourselves and not taking handouts.  We look down on people who get government assistance.  They are less than real citizens.  We don't "fear" Communism, we don't want other people to be scammed by what is a huge lie that will wind up with them in yet another  Communist mass grave after yet another Communist mass murder.

3 hours ago, MrsGently said:

If you have to conjure private help organisations and technological inventions... and modern medicine which as it is practised really just a 'disease industry'... I feel sorry for you

Then you don't understand what makes the USA great in the first place.  You don't "get" why the USA is the global hegemon, and is in little danger of being dislodged.  You are full of criticism, but you can't see the positives, which is a bit pathetic, and demonstrates your ignorance.

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Communism never works, only imbeciles think it does. 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

So given that Communism is supposed to be so very intellectual and scientific, why do they have no answer to this problem when they stage a violent revolution?

If you need anarchy, go live in Somalia.  Anarchy is ugly.  I've seen it in real life.  Don't go there.

 Oh FFS, you aren't a sovereign citizen libertarian are you?  Dumbest. Ideology. Ever.🤣

No.   Sovereign citizen libertarianism is NOT Communism.  They are entirely different in their aims, their methods, their theory and their outcomes.  There is no point of similarity between them and both promise the world but will come unstuck faster than a post it note in a cyclone.

 No.  China wants to become the global hegemon. They are just really bad at everything.  They thought because corporations were investing in them that they were going to win.  Then they unleashed COVID deliberately to destabilize the global economy, and it blew up in their faces.  I repeat. China is bad at everything.  Personally I never buy anything made in China if there is any other choice.  I'd sooner buy something made in Iran, and I really don't want to buy anything made in Iran.

I don't think we mean the same thing when we talk about technological capabilities.  Give me an example of what you mean, please?

You don't understand the American outlook.  We are individualists.  We take pride in looking after ourselves and not taking handouts.  We look down on people who get government assistance.  They are less than real citizens.  We don't "fear" Communism, we don't want other people to be scammed by what is a huge lie that will wind up with them in yet another  Communist mass grave after yet another Communist mass murder.

Then you don't understand what makes the USA great in the first place.  You don't "get" why the USA is the global hegemon, and is in little danger of being dislodged.  You are full of criticism, but you can't see the positives, which is a bit pathetic, and demonstrates your ignorance.

?

...ok I see you've fully lost the plot now. I am the biggest cheerleader for liberty and and the US and the West you'll never meet. Just being contrarian because you want to be right doesn't really give me anything in conversations, sorry.

Edited by MrsGently
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2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

?

...ok I see you've fully lost the plot now. I am the biggest cheerleader for liberty and and the US and the West you'll never meet. Just being contrarian because you want to be right doesn't really give me anything in conversations, sorry.

What crap.  Anyone who read this discussion would fully understand that your comment above is pure GASLIGHTING.  You have done nothing but knock the USA and its values this whole time.  Now you've lost the argument, you are pretending you are on the side of liberty, when in fact you have been supporting Communism this whole time.  The sad thing is, you think that libertarianism is communism, and it just ain't so.  These silly "promise-the-world-and-deliver-nothing" ideologies have only their outrageous and undelivered promises to sell them, and only the most gullible people fall for them.  I bet you are an easy mark for scammers MrsGently.  I certainly don't envy you that.  I also don't envy your unwillingness to get a proper handle on the economic realities of the world.

Edited by Alchopwn
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19 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

What crap.  Anyone who read this discussion would fully understand that your comment above is pure GASLIGHTING.  You have done nothing but knock the USA and its values this whole time.  Now you've lost the argument, you are pretending you are on the side of liberty, when in fact you have been supporting Communism this whole time.  The sad thing is, you think that libertarianism is communism, and it just ain't so.  These silly "promise-the-world-and-deliver-nothing" ideologies have only their outrageous and undelivered promises to sell them, and only the most gullible people fall for them.  I bet you are an easy mark for scammers MrsGently.  I certainly don't envy you that.  I also don't envy your unwillingness to get a proper handle on the economic realities of the world.

LOL oh wow THE RAGE...

sorry my existence is not reduced to this thread, so you trying to deduce my personality from what was really just me responding to you, because you are wrong and still didn't show me the quote from Mao you claim to be from Marx...

Doesn't lead me to make claims like: I bet Alchopwn is a racist who gets drunk a lot... or bs like that just as example

 

I am not even a 'communist'. I have my own ideology.

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5 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I bet you are an easy mark for scammers MrsGently. 

Gently is a self-admitted narcissist. So there's that. 

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8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Gently is a self-admitted narcissist. So there's that. 

 

8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Gently is a self-admitted narcissist. So there's that. 

Narcissism is one of the signs of someone who attempts to control others. Gaslighting is another sign... there is that as well.

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14 hours ago, MrsGently said:

LOL oh wow THE RAGE..

I am not even a 'communist'. I have my own ideology.

What is your ideology?

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