Pope provokes outrage by saying Ukraine should ‘raise white flag’ and end war with Russia

[Still Waters]

The Ukrainian government has responded angrily and vowed never to surrender after Pope Francis said the country should have “the courage to raise the white flag” and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.

“Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags,” Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said on social media on Sunday.

Politicians and commentators in Europe expressed outrage after the pontiff gave an interview in which he appeared to stay silent on Russia’s crimes as aggressor in the invasion and placed the onus on Ukraine to make peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-saying-ukraine-should-raise-white-flag-and-end-war-with-russia

[quiXilver]

How utterly, uninspiredly unsurprising of him.

The mouth-piece of that insipid egregore could hardly spittle out otherwise...

 

[Ell]

This Pope is not a sociopath nor in league with the sociopaths?

[pellinore]

The Catholic Church also supported the Nazis in WW2. The simplest way to end bloodshed is for the Russians to withdraw from Ukraine- it would end immediately, without a need for negotiations. Of course, it would also help if the Catholic Church curbed its efforts to grub money and cover up pedophilia.

Few topics in Church history, or the history of the Second World War, are as hotly contested as Pius XII’s decision to avoid direct public criticism of Hitler or his regime, and to remain publicly silent in the face of the Holocaust.

The Pope’s Secret Back Channel to Hitler - The Atlantic

Edited March 10 by pellinore

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, Still Waters said:

The Ukrainian government has responded angrily and vowed never to surrender after Pope Francis said the country should have “the courage to raise the white flag” and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.

“Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags,” Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said on social media on Sunday.

Politicians and commentators in Europe expressed outrage after the pontiff gave an interview in which he appeared to stay silent on Russia’s crimes as aggressor in the invasion and placed the onus on Ukraine to make peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-saying-ukraine-should-raise-white-flag-and-end-war-with-russia

I agree with the Pope because he is obviously considering the Ukrainian loss of life.

Mind you, to 80% of UM members the idea that the reported low Ukrainian losses are propaganda is incomprehensible. They seriously believe Ukrainians are supermen who despite having a mere handful of tanks, mech infantry, and HIMARs, are massacring the worlds 2nd military power. Its so sad to watch, as I realise they have no ability to engage in rational thought.

Ukraine will go mad when it reaches the point it is forced to surrender, as the true loss of life is announced. Zelensky will be finished.

[Duke Wellington]

4 hours ago, pellinore said:

The Catholic Church also supported the Nazis in WW2. The simplest way to end bloodshed is for the Russians to withdraw from Ukraine- it would end immediately, without a need for negotiations. Of course, it would also help if the Catholic Church curbed its efforts to grub money and cover up pedophilia.

Few topics in Church history, or the history of the Second World War, are as hotly contested as Pius XII’s decision to avoid direct public criticism of Hitler or his regime, and to remain publicly silent in the face of the Holocaust.

The Pope’s Secret Back Channel to Hitler - The Atlantic

You never know, perhaps they hid the Fuhrer at the end of the conflict.

[Alchopwn]

Send your abusive letters to: 

His Holiness Pope Francis

00120 Vatican City

(This is his actual given address btw.)

[Alchopwn]

13 hours ago, Ell said:

This Pope is not a sociopath nor in league with the sociopaths?

The sociopaths obviously got to him.

[Ajay0]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:01 PM, Still Waters said:

The Ukrainian government has responded angrily and vowed never to surrender after Pope Francis said the country should have “the courage to raise the white flag” and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.

“Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags,” Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said on social media on Sunday.

Politicians and commentators in Europe expressed outrage after the pontiff gave an interview in which he appeared to stay silent on Russia’s crimes as aggressor in the invasion and placed the onus on Ukraine to make peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-saying-ukraine-should-raise-white-flag-and-end-war-with-russia

The Pope has responded correctly in emphasizing negotiation and dialogue to defuse the crisis.

Ukrainian politicians and defense officials have been tainted with corruption scandals in the ongoing war.

https://time.com/6249941/ukraine-corruption-resignation-zelensky-russia/

https://www.euronews.com/2024/01/28/ukraine-says-corrupt-officials-stole-40-million-meant-to-buy-arms-for-the-war-with-russia

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-corruption-railway-ukrzaliznytsia-food-volodymyr-zelenskyy/

It is very easy for these corrupt politicans and officials to say that they will never surrender, sitting in their air-conditioned offices far away from the battle-field and siphoning off aid money to their bank accounts, while the common Ukrainian expose themselves to hardship, danger and death in the battlefield .

The war has also increased inflation around the world increasing hardship to the masses as well, while the rich are insulated from it.

The worse case scenario of a nuclear war and holocaust ending the national existence of the US, Europe and Russia will also set humanity backward by centuries. Present issues like global warming and aberrant weather patterns will also get exacerbated for the worse.

[qxcontinuum]

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if President Zelenski had been open to granting independence to the Donbas region and be more flexible with Putin.  Since 2014, Donbas has shown a strong desire to reclaim its Russian heritage, with significant efforts made towards this goal. Over 60,000 militants had lost their lives in the ongoing conflict by 2022 and no one talks about it. 

Unlike many Western nations which prioritize inclusion and compromise for minority groups, Ukrainian policies oppose such measures. There is a lack of acceptance for minorities, and little effort is made to establish schools or communities to support their needs. Furthermore there is a nazi movement which continues to operate and influence politicians there that has ramifications deep in Europe including other Baltic countries .

Ukraine is not exactly a " lamb". They're actually as bad as the Russians and to no surprise same nation turned against eachother by foreign politics and power games. 

As in what concerns me or us, I am seriously thinking about adding Zelensky as dependent on my tax returns this year.

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, qxcontinuum said:

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if President Zelenski had been open to granting independence to the Donbas region and be more flexible with Putin.  Since 2014, Donbas has shown a strong desire to reclaim its Russian heritage, with significant efforts made towards this goal. Over 60,000 militants had lost their lives in the ongoing conflict by 2022 and no one talks about it. 

Unlike many Western nations which prioritize inclusion and compromise for minority groups, Ukrainian policies oppose such measures. There is a lack of acceptance for minorities, and little effort is made to establish schools or communities to support their needs. Furthermore there is a nazi movement which continues to operate and influence politicians there that has ramifications deep in Europe including other Baltic countries .

Ukraine is not exactly a " lamb". They're actually as bad as the Russians and to no surprise same nation turned against eachother by foreign politics and power games. 

As in what concerns me or us, I am seriously thinking about adding Zelensky as dependent on my tax returns this year.

Haven't seen the Ukranians are nazis propaganda for a while.

First off the Donbas region voted for the political party Zelensky is a part of in the last election Ukraine held before the Russian invasion.

Second Azov brigade, one of the most combat effective units in Ukraine, is largely made up of Ukrainians who speak Russian and from the Donbas region.

I am curious in how  exactly Ukraine has a lack of acceptance for minorities in Ukraine.  The language laws Ukraine passed were essentially identical to language laws countries such as France has.  

As for Ukraine being as bad as Russia, Russia has done the Bucha massacres, indiscriminate bombing of Ukrainian civilians, torture and execution of prisoners of war, and the widespread use of rape to suppress the civilian population of areas under Russian occupation.  How exactly is Ukraine just as bad as Russia

[Setton]

6 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if President Zelenski had been open to granting independence to the Donbas region and be more flexible with Putin.  

The war could also have been avoided if Putin had accidentally hacked his own head off while shaving.

The rest of your post is just very dated Russian propaganda. 

[qxcontinuum]

6 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Haven't seen the Ukranians are nazis propaganda for a while.

First off the Donbas region voted for the political party Zelensky is a part of in the last election Ukraine held before the Russian invasion.

Second Azov brigade, one of the most combat effective units in Ukraine, is largely made up of Ukrainians who speak Russian and from the Donbas region.

I am curious in how  exactly Ukraine has a lack of acceptance for minorities in Ukraine.  The language laws Ukraine passed were essentially identical to language laws countries such as France has.  

As for Ukraine being as bad as Russia, Russia has done the Bucha massacres, indiscriminate bombing of Ukrainian civilians, torture and execution of prisoners of war, and the widespread use of rape to suppress the civilian population of areas under Russian occupation.  How exactly is Ukraine just as bad as Russia

don't get me wrong , nobody likes Putin and the fact he invaded a country officially recognized as independent, my post isn't about that but the fact that brothers and sisters are killing each other  whilst both are far from being holy nations as Ukraine is trying to portray. 

I found an official study highlighting some of the problems I mentioned about. I remember as child, there was propaganda pushed by a neo natzi strong movement in many Baltic nations including Romania , Bulgaria , It was called "The Iron Guard news"  and newspapers was circulating freely. https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/   

[MrsGently]

On 3/10/2024 at 4:31 PM, Still Waters said:

The Ukrainian government has responded angrily and vowed never to surrender after Pope Francis said the country should have “the courage to raise the white flag” and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.

“Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags,” Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said on social media on Sunday.

Politicians and commentators in Europe expressed outrage after the pontiff gave an interview in which he appeared to stay silent on Russia’s crimes as aggressor in the invasion and placed the onus on Ukraine to make peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/10/pope-francis-criticised-for-saying-ukraine-should-raise-white-flag-and-end-war-with-russia

He is speaking for peace I guess someone has to. Surrender is right now the fastest way to peace, if it is the right one is another question, as it is also surrender to autocracy.

We don't surrender to dictators anymore after WWII would have been great, alas... who knows Putin is not as popular at home, could be with the ongoing war unrest will grow far enough to outnumber the 'submissive citizens'

It is interesting though I recently looked a little in the Fatima 'incident' what is this prophecy?

Hm?

Quote

What did the Fatima say about Russia?

 

 

 

If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.

wiki

[TigerBright19]

Oct 3, 1979

IRA rejects Pope's plea for peace.

The Provisional Irish Republican Army today rejected a plea by Pope John Paul II to abandon violence in its campaign against British rule in Northern Ireland, citing the church's doctrine that Christians may resist oppression.

“In all conscience, we believe that force is by far the only means of removing the evil of British presence in Ireland,” the I.R.A. said in a statement...."

Fast forward to today.  With every conflict nothing changes.  Only people's perception of it, depending on which side of the street they are on.  One man's oppressor is another man's protector.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

19 minutes ago, TigerBright19 said:

Oct 3, 1979

IRA rejects Pope's plea for peace.

The Provisional Irish Republican Army today rejected a plea by Pope John Paul II to abandon violence in its campaign against British rule in Northern Ireland, citing the church's doctrine that Christians may resist oppression.

“In all conscience, we believe that force is by far the only means of removing the evil of British presence in Ireland,” the I.R.A. said in a statement...."

Fast forward to today.  With every conflict nothing changes.  Only people's perception of it, depending on which side of the street they are on.  One man's oppressor is another man's protector.

I'm not sure I am following you, here. Are you attempting to draw parallels between IRA's active aggression against British occupants in Northern Ireland and Ukraine's (who are not the aggressors) refusal for peace negotiations? One was an internal conflict within the UK in an effort to fight for rights and recognition whereas the other is a sovereign nation defending against an invading sovereign nation.

The distinctions are significant, both in the context of international law and in the very nature of the war itself.

[jmccr8]

13 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I'm not sure I am following you, here. Are you attempting to draw parallels between IRA's active aggression against British occupants in Northern Ireland and Ukraine's (who are not the aggressors) refusal for peace negotiations? One was an internal conflict within the UK in an effort to fight for rights and recognition whereas the other is a sovereign nation defending against an invading sovereign nation.

The distinctions are significant, both in the context of international law and in the very nature of the war itself.

Hi Nuke

How has life been treating you, well I hope.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Nuke

How has life been treating you, well I hope.

Life's been great. Getting married in October. 🙂

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Life's been great. Getting married in October. 🙂

Hi Nuke

Congratulations lucky guy all the best to both of you in your new life.

[TigerBright19]

1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I'm not sure I am following you, here. Are you attempting to draw parallels between IRA's active aggression against British occupants in Northern Ireland and Ukraine's (who are not the aggressors) refusal for peace negotiations? One was an internal conflict within the UK in an effort to fight for rights and recognition whereas the other is a sovereign nation defending against an invading sovereign nation.

The distinctions are significant, both in the context of international law and in the very nature of the war itself.

I am referring to the Pope's call for peace and that nations that claim to fight for others rarely have their best interests at heart.  e.g.  America funding the IRA and Britain doing deals with Gaddafi etc.  In N.Ireland the division was not just a clear line, as the communities were surrounded with opposition communities, each with their own ideas of freedom, revenge, justice with armed factions e.g. UDA, IVF, UFF.  Conflicts are never black and white.

Perhaps the best way to solve the conflict in Ukraine is to ask the people in the communities that Russia has occupied and ask the average person what they want.  There would naturally be a wave of misinformation being fed to them by both sides, and scenes of protests and demonstrations, both real and staged, but perhaps after a long stale mate the true feelings of the people living there in the heart of it will shine through and not have their voice filtered by leaders who claim to speak for them.  So often we judge a nation by its leader.  Roll camera: Trump take 2.

🤗🎥🤑 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

1 hour ago, TigerBright19 said:

I am referring to the Pope's call for peace and that nations that claim to fight for others rarely have their best interests at heart. 

Who does this apply to in the context of the Russo-Ukrainian war?

1 hour ago, TigerBright19 said:

Perhaps the best way to solve the conflict in Ukraine is to ask the people in the communities that Russia has occupied and ask the average person what they want.

Wouldn't there be significant pressure to comply with the occupiers, thus rendering their responses questionable at best? Shouldn't the illegal occupiers leave first and then Russia could establish relocation procedures through the appropriate, legal channels? 

1 hour ago, TigerBright19 said:

There would naturally be a wave of misinformation being fed to them by both sides

To a certain degree, propaganda exists on both sides. Some more than others.

Quote

, and scenes of protests and demonstrations, both real and staged,

Which protests and demonstrations were real and which were staged?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Nuke

Congratulations lucky guy all the best to both of you in your new life.

Thanks so much!! How's life been for you?

[jmccr8]

Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

Thanks so much!! How's life been for you?

Hi Nuke

Pretty good have lots of work at the resort and doing a reno at home so keeping busy and moving forward.