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Violent bunch


Doug1066

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Couple this with that Comedian holding Trump's head in effigy (during the ISIS beheadings phase) and one can readily see that one should totally ignore both the  alleged Left and the alleged Right.

They are...in fact...one in the same.

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2 hours ago, joc said:

Couple this with that Comedian holding Trump's head in effigy (during the ISIS beheadings phase) and one can readily see that one should totally ignore both the  alleged Left and the alleged Right.

They are...in fact...one in the same.

They both have more similarities than either would like to admit.

 

We are in an interesting situation:  the GOP is preparing to overthrow the Constitution and Antifa is preparing to defend it.  Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows.

Doug

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

They both have more similarities than either would like to admit.

 

We are in an interesting situation:  the GOP is preparing to overthrow the Constitution and Antifa is preparing to defend it.  Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows.

Doug

It's all about Mind Control.  They are masters at it.  

Imagine this if you can:  Every household in the world...with a Television in the living room...Where they are told what to think, who to believe, who to hate, who to love, what's trending and what's not, how to live, what to eat, what to see, what to watch, where to go, where not to go, and on and on and on.

And when everyone in the household leaves the Television for work and school...they take a mini-television with them, with which they communicate to each other everything they learned from watching the Television.  

They do call it programming for a reason.

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14 hours ago, joc said:

It's all about Mind Control.  They are masters at it.  

Imagine this if you can:  Every household in the world...with a Television in the living room...Where they are told what to think, who to believe, who to hate, who to love, what's trending and what's not, how to live, what to eat, what to see, what to watch, where to go, where not to go, and on and on and on.

And when everyone in the household leaves the Television for work and school...they take a mini-television with them, with which they communicate to each other everything they learned from watching the Television.  

They do call it programming for a reason.

I don't believe there's a cabal trying to control our lives.  There are many independent groups who hammer their messages home continuously, day and night, but not one single entity.

The problem is that each of these groups thinks their way is the only way.  Anti-abortion, anti-black voting rights, anti-women's rights, the "you're going to hell if you don't believe my way" folks, the anti-trans folks.  Hatred of others seems to be their unifying element.  They think some rights should apply only to them.

Doug

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1 minute ago, Doug1066 said:

I don't believe there's a cabal trying to control our lives.  There are many independent groups who hammer their messages home continuously, day and night, but not one single entity.

The problem is that each of these groups thinks their way is the only way.  Anti-abortion, anti-black voting rights, anti-women's rights, the "you're going to hell if you don't believe my way" folks, the anti-trans folks.  Hatred of others seems to be their unifying element.  They think some rights should apply only to them.

Doug

But...I didn't say there was a Cabal trying to control our lives.

What I said was there is a group who seek to control the World Global Economy.  

One would have to agree with you though, that we are divided. I don't think there is a Cabal in control of that...it's just what governments do ..divide and conquer and then rule over.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, joc said:

But...I didn't say there was a Cabal trying to control our lives.

What I said was there is a group who seek to control the World Global Economy.  

One would have to agree with you though, that we are divided. I don't think there is a Cabal in control of that...it's just what governments do ..divide and conquer and then rule over.

There might be such a group:

New World Order

The New World Order is a conspiracy theory that a secretive power elite with a global agenda plans to take over the world and rule it through an authoritative one-world government, replacing nation-states.  Adherents to this theory claim many influential and historical, even contemporary, figures are part of this.  Mass hysteria over the New World Order is having a devastating effect on American political life, ranging from lone-wolf terrorism to an ultranationalist demagogue (Sommerlad 2022).

 Joe Biden used the term at a gathering of business leaders without being aware of its awkward legacy.  Roosevelt used the term in referring to Axis plans for world domination, seemingly the source of the term’s negative connotations.  Republicans mistakenly use the term for international cooperation.  The names of the World Government Summit and the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum did not do anything to assuage their concern (Kempe 2022), conjuring up images of wealthy elites dictating economic policy that affects the lives of ordinary people.

 In the political sense, the phrase refers to new political thought in a world where countries are beset by problems too big and complex to be solved by any of them acting alone, global warming being a chief issue.

  

World Economic Forum (WEF)

The WEF recently replaced its eight Millennium Development Goals with 17 Sustainable Development Goals, to be achieved by 2030 (Thomson 2015).  They are:

1.      No Poverty

2.      Zero Hunger

3.      Good Health and Well Being

4.      Quality Education

5.      Gender Equality

6.      Clean Water and Sanitation

7.      Affordable and Clean Energy

8.      Decent Work and Economic Growth

9.      Industry, Innovation and Infrastructure

10.  Reduced Inequalities

11.  Sustainable Cities and Communities

12.  Responsible Production and Consumption

13.  Climate Action

14.  Life Below Water

15.  Life on Land

16.  Peace and Justice Strong Institutions

17.  Partnerships for the Goals.

The thing that strikes me is how undefined and unachievable some of these lofty goals are.  In the US, after nine years, the citizens of Flint, Michigan still do not have clean water, the result of a Republican “cost-saving” measure that ignored advice of water experts (Denchak 2018).  WEF expects to have it delivered world-wide in another seven.

WEF talks about Zero Hunger, but in the US, the richest country on earth, we can’t provide school lunch programs in all our schools – Republican budget-balancing on the backs of our most vulnerable citizens.

And while we could reach Net Zero CO2 emissions by 2050, it is starting to look like we won’t.  Besides which, it is starting to look like the problem is residual heat, not CO2.  WEF is working on the wrong problem.  That seems to be a good description of their activities:  all the right solutions for all the wrong problems.

 Founded in 1971 by Klaus Schwab, a business professor at the University of Geneva, the WEF has grown out of all recognizable proportion to its earlier self.  Originally a professional forum to improve the lot of the world’s people, it has been taken over by corporate giants and governments which seem out of touch with most of the world.  For example, it cost $120,000 to attend its annual meeting in 2022.  Academics, once drivers of the Forum, were its smallest group (Wikipedia 2023b).

 One thing stands out about the WEF’s web pages:  for all their millions spent on meetings and new office buildings, they have a distinct lack of on-the-ground accomplishments.  The amount they spend on their annual meeting would pay for a new wind turbine.  Not one city/town/village has a new water system because of WEF.  No children are being fed.  No new schools.  No new medical facilities.  One delegate commented that the WEF annual meeting was “a vacation on the expense account.”  Does it look like WEF are talkers and not doers?

The Swiss federal government reduced its contribution in February 2021.  Maybe it is time for other governments to do the same, at the same time ending its tax-exempt status.

WEF’s pronouncements and publications are not very specific about what it is proposing; it calls for drastic changes, but does not clearly define those changes.  It suggests that a globalized world is best managed by a self-selected group of corporations, governments and civil societies.  It is strongly into capitalism which, given capitalism’s history, makes me extremely suspicious of its motives.  It sounds like it is thinking of corporate dictatorship (fascism), not the welfare of the world’s people.  It is not in line with Democratic thinking.

Doug

 

 Sommerlad, Joe.  2022.  What is the ‘New World Order’ and why has Joe Biden caused uproar by using the phrase?  Yahoo News - Independent (22 March 2022).  https://news.yahoo.com/world-order-why-joe-biden-131828538.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall  13 Oct. 2023.

Kempe, Fred.  2022.  Op-ed:  A new world order is emerging – and the world is not ready for it.  CNBC (3 Apr. 2022).  https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/03/a-new-world-order-is-emerging-and-the-world-is-not-ready-for-it.html  13 Oct. 2023.

Thomson, Stephanie.  2015.  What are the Sustainable Development Goals?  World Economic Forum.  16 Sept. 2015.  https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/09/what-are-the-sustainable-development-goals/  14 Oct. 2023.

Denchak, Melissa.  2018.  Flint water crisis:  everything you need to know.  Natural Resources Defense Council.  8 Nov. 2018.  https://www.nrdc.org/stories/flint-water-crisis-everything-you-need-know#summary  14 Oct. 2023.

Wikipedia.  2023b.  World Economic Forum.  12 Oct. 2023.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum  14 Oct. 2023.

Edited by Doug1066
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I like to think in simpler terms.

It is more I think of who controls the money. So, the old adage...follow the money. Who has the most money? 

 Regardless of the plight of the poor, et al, it seems like the entire Global Economy is leveraged along the lines of the interest the US pays on the national debt. The US has never defaulted on those payments. To do so is unthinkable. So, who is really in control of the World Economy?  I don't know. No one entity...but it also seems to me that somehow it is being controlled nonetheless.

It matters not what Democrat Congressional members say or do. Or Republican Congressional members either. They are all interested mostly in re-election. In order to assure re-election they must bow to their Congressional Leaders.  And the Congressional Leaders seem only interested in placating their base voting blocks.

To that end...the population has been divided along political lines. 

The entire Media seems geared towards the continuation and expansion of that division.

Regardless also of the Green Energy movement, the entire world revolves around oil.  The military infrastructures of the world are dependent on oil.  They are also dependent on weapons systems and so that is also a huge economic factor.

Back to the money...The Catholic Church has considerable old wealth.  England also has considerable wealth...at least that's what I think.

And the banking institutions.

I think, and it is just my thinking that everything hinges on America's national debt interest payments. We are now paying interest on about 34 Trillion dollars. Hence, my thinking along the lines of politics with the maintenance of GDP a major, if not the major consideration when it comes to who runs the American Show..

 

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2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The WEF replaced its Millennium Development Goals with Sustainable Development Goals, to be achieved by 2030.  They are:

1.      No Poverty ...

You didn't address #1 in your response.  Is that because you can't simply blame it on the Republican Party?

1)  Dirty water?  One example - Flint, Michigan, blame Republicans.  Did you even consider the billions in the developing World who also need clean water?  Of course not! you can't drag Trump into that.  (But you took the trouble to reference your source, as though that's what really matters?)

2)  Eliminating hunger?  Again: all you think about is yourself and immediate localised concerns.  Shock horror!:  Some schools don't do what the majority of voters think parents should be doing (i.e. feed the offspring they produce)? 

(Of course Socialists' instincts kick in and declare that their opinions overrule all others, no matter who has to pay for their policies.  (And with no longer term plan except to tax more to spend more.)) 

I rather suspect that the World Economic Forum was thinking more about poorer countries when they made this a target? Link you won't bother to look at

3)  Too much CO2?... probably Trump's fault that 190+ other countries are daring to industrialise...

4)  etc., etc.  Your visceral loathing of the GOP gets in the way of any valid insights or observations you make.  I didn't read all your post: sorry, I just got bored of the repetitively hateful tone.

5)  So how about #1: no poverty?  That surely boils down to agreeing a definition of poverty.  As I understand it - modern definitions relate to average or median incomes.  Unless we achieve your utopian Communist dream of perfect equality, there will always be people who earn more that others; therefore there will be a median, and standard deviations above and below that, therefore there will ALWAYS be people in 'povery' no matter how rich the country or neighbourhood. 

But it's likely you know all that, and understand it; but you can't blame Trump so you forgot to elaborate in your post?

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1 hour ago, joc said:

But...I didn't say there was a Cabal trying to control our lives.

What I said was there is a group who seek to control the World Global Economy.  

One would have to agree with you though, that we are divided. I don't think there is a Cabal in control of that...it's just what governments do ..divide and conquer and then rule over.

 

4 hours ago, joc said:

I like to think in simpler terms.

It is more I think of who controls the money. So, the old adage...follow the money. Who has the most money? 

 Regardless of the plight of the poor, et al, it seems like the entire Global Economy is leveraged along the lines of the interest the US pays on the national debt. The US has never defaulted on those payments. To do so is unthinkable. So, who is really in control of the World Economy?  I don't know. No one entity...but it also seems to me that somehow it is being controlled nonetheless.

It matters not what Democrat Congressional members say or do. Or Republican Congressional members either. They are all interested mostly in re-election. In order to assure re-election they must bow to their Congressional Leaders.  And the Congressional Leaders seem only interested in placating their base voting blocks.

To that end...the population has been divided along political lines. 

The entire Media seems geared towards the continuation and expansion of that division.

Regardless also of the Green Energy movement, the entire world revolves around oil.  The military infrastructures of the world are dependent on oil.  They are also dependent on weapons systems and so that is also a huge economic factor.

Back to the money...The Catholic Church has considerable old wealth.  England also has considerable wealth...at least that's what I think.

And the banking institutions.

I think, and it is just my thinking that everything hinges on America's national debt interest payments. We are now paying interest on about 34 Trillion dollars. Hence, my thinking along the lines of politics with the maintenance of GDP a major, if not the major consideration when it comes to who runs the American Show..

 

I think you have the plot, but are missing a twist or two.

Conquest of land and populations as a method of increasing wealth and  power in the world has taken  back seat to economic development, at least in the Western Democracies.  Nations are jockeying for commercial influence and soft power. Prosperous citizens pay the most taxes. All  nations strive to preserve themselves as independent entities, they deal with other nations  and also are required to do some degree of oversight of citizens,  A free market nation has a different idea of how much control is needed as opposed to an authoritarian state. and freedom has a better rate of return.

The US collected between $5-6  trillion dollars in taxes last year,  not a bad haul from comparatively free individuals.

Consumer spending in the US in 2021 was roughly $16 trillion dollars  That is about half of the value of the national debt..  The trend in income and consumer spending is going up, just about every year.  Taxes keep the government running,   Interest on the debt is our pay to play fee in the world market.  If we are stable, there is not much reason to call in the debt, its free money every year for the bond holders.  In addition to that, they get a slice of that consumer spending pie every year and it is growing.  If somebody wants to make a lot of money, they service the loans, collect the easy money interest, and sell US consumers one more necessary item that wasn't invented and we didn't need last year.  Global consumer spending, especially in stable time is the biggest gold mine  in existence.  And its not just limited to the biggest players.  Anybody  can take a shot at all of that money by selling a good or service, down to the YouTube influencer making a few thousand dollars a month.  Its not monolithic, there is still competition and personal interests all the way to the top  War may be good for some corporations, but certainly not for others.  Anything that gets in the way of extracting maximum value every year, and growing the total available  including petroleum will eventually be pushed out of the way.  At least until the meteor hits.

U.S. Consumer Spending - Historical Data
Year Spending Per Capita Growth Rate
2021 $15,902.58B $42,714 8.29%
2020 $14,116.17B $39,505 -2.99%
2019 $14,392.72B $41,118 1.99%
2018 $13,904.98B $40,501 2.88%
2017 $13,233.61B $39,576 2.38%
2016 $12,693.27B $38,900 2.48%
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Posted (edited)
On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

You didn't address #1 in your response.  Is that because you can't simply blame it on the Republican Party?

Those are WEF goals, not mine.  Elimination of poverty is patently impossible without changes in the world's economy that no capitalist-oriented organization is willing to make.  WEF will never achieve this.  Republican opposition is a tiny part of the problem.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

1)  Dirty water?  One example - Flint, Michigan, blame Republicans.

It was a Republican-appointed manager, Darnell Earley, who decided to change water sources to save money, thereby contaminating the entire system.  Would I have thought of that problem before it happened?  Probably not.  But that doesn't change the fact that it was a Republican who did it.

 

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

2)  Eliminating hunger?  Again: all you think about is yourself and immediate localised concerns. 

It is within the US' capacity to end world hunger.  The WEF won't do it because there's no profit in it.  The world produces almost enough food already; we only need to increase production a small amount.  The US has the technology and the financial system needed to make the difference.  Doesn't matter who's in the White House, the fact remains that we're not doing it.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

(Of course Socialists' instincts kick in and declare that their opinions overrule all others, no matter who has to pay for their policies. 

Of course, you don't even know what socialism is, let alone what socialists think or do.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

I rather suspect that the World Economic Forum was thinking more about poorer countries when they made this a target? Link you won't bother to look at

Starvation is mostly a matter of war, of deliberating starving the opposition by denying them food (except in the case of Bangladesh which is being beset by rising sea levels in its best farm land).  War is ALWAYS made against children, whether it's US sanctions in Venezuela or Netanyahu's bombing of Gazans; it is always the children who suffer.  The US can lessen hunger, but not quite eliminate it.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

3)  Too much CO2?... probably Trump's fault that 190+ other countries are daring to industrialise...

Only partly Trump's fault.  He eliminated the Federal incentives for windmill construction.  That failed as construction never stopped, even while he was in office.  Trump's negative rhetoric does a lot of harm, not just to climate control efforts, but to the economy and other efforts to do things that make people's lives better.  Fortunately, behind the scenes people are making efforts to mitigate or slow climate change.  The Keystone Dam will be raised by ten feet to give it more water-storage capacity for flood control.  Oklahoma is getting wetter and in 2019 the pool level came within 29 feet of capacity.  That's climate change.  The Corps of Engineers is taking it seriously.  A lot of its dams are being raised.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

4)  etc., etc.  Your visceral loathing of the GOP gets in the way of any valid insights or observations you make.  I didn't read all your post: sorry, I just got bored of the repetitively hateful tone.

You seem to be bored with facts.

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

5)  So how about #1: no poverty?  That surely boils down to agreeing a definition of poverty. 

Here's your definition:

https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/7240229f28375f54435c5b83a3764cd1/detailed-guidelines-2024.pdf

On 3/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Tom1200 said:

But it's likely you know all that, and understand it; but you can't blame Trump so you forgot to elaborate in your post?

Two months ago I joined a research effort to

1.  List America's problems.

2.  Write a brief history on how they came to be.

3.  Propose ways to solve them, and

4.  Determine what America will be like when these problems are solved.

The project is huge.  It will take seven-to-ten years.  It doesn't matter who gets elected, most of the problems will still be unsolved in 2035.  Some have been around longer than the US has.  Trump is largely irrelevant to this effort.  He can make things worse, but he will be hard-pressed to come up with something new or any solutions to old problems (Biden either).

Trump is a has-been.  It's unlikely that he'll win in 2024.  But even if he does, it will be his appointees who run the country.  He will have little to say about it.  I'm not worried about Trump.

Doug

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