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Proof that wind and solar are disasters


docyabut2

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11 hours ago, medes said:

You can take an image of Hawaii at the right time of day and it looks like it is on fire.

Not sure what you are getting at. 

Are you actually saying smog doesn't exist, or does not get as bad as illustrated in the photo? 

11 hours ago, medes said:

Summers are hot lol, summers in our state have been short and cold during the hottest year crappola and l remember stickin hot summers with weeks typically ranging from 34 to 40 dg, in the 1970's or when C02 levels were way lower and we had scientists bleating on about a mini ice age.

Not for the last three years. They have been consistently mild. And up here we don't get short summers. We do now though. 

Do you have trust issues with science?.

11 hours ago, medes said:

Venus the only reason the Earth didn't go the same way was because we had naturally formed Carcalnite rocks that absorbed it all.

No, nothing like that. It's a greenhouse effect. 

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9 hours ago, Essan said:

Well obviously it was winter in the USA.  But since you ask..... It was their warmest on record. 

https://www.noaa.gov/news/us-had-its-warmest-winter-on-record

https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/polar-vortex-arctic-blast-us-2024

Warmest lol, maybe you should contact FOXnews and set them straight then?

8 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Exactly how much about the prehistoric world, paleo geology and paleo-climatology are you familiar with?

As much as you are.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Not sure what you are getting at. 

Garcia-AP_Honolulu_vog_2008.thumb.jpg.170edeff3b36a9a2739990762fbe71f0.jpg

Honolulu, (l can add a scary light brown filter if you like).

Quote

Not for the last three years. They have been consistently mild. And up here we don't get short summers. We do now though. 

B)

Quote

Do you have trust issues with science?.

No but since you agreed with me it sounds like you do!

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25 minutes ago, medes said:

Garcia-AP_Honolulu_vog_2008.thumb.jpg.170edeff3b36a9a2739990762fbe71f0.jpg

Honolulu, (l can add a scary light brown filter if you like).

Are you saying the thousands of pictures of smog are fakes? Or that smog is fake? 

There's air pollution clearly visible in that photo too. Those are the gases that create the greenhouse effect. 

25 minutes ago, medes said:

B)

No but since you agreed with me it sounds like you do!

Where did I do that?

I stayed that there's been a notable change in the climate over recent years. Are you somehow cryptically saying the same? 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, medes said:

80% from coal with several new ones coming on line every week, lol they won't wear out or they will just build a new one in 50 years when the old one cannot be repaired anymore.

Doug?

Coal power in China is declining (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517300952) and has been since 2014.  Its planning targets are higher, but it is not keeping up with them.

China is in much the same position as we are:  why should they make extra efforts to limit CO2 emissions when the US isn't doing anything?

China shut down its last coal-fired train last year.  We are still running several coal-fired trains.  China's coal-fired trains were being used by climate change deniers in the US as evidence that China was not making headway in controlling carbon emissions.

Doug

 

Edited by Doug1066
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On 3/26/2024 at 4:55 PM, docyabut2 said:

They require significant land use, threatening wildlife and huge swaths of nature. Finally, they're inherently unreliable, since the wind isn't always blowing, nor the sun always shining. As many parts of the U.S. are learning, more wind and solar power means more blackouts.

Oh, like strip coal and oil shale mines do except with all the toxins? 

 

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On 4/4/2024 at 8:55 AM, Doug1066 said:

Coal power in China is declining (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517300952) and has been since 2014.  Its planning targets are higher, but it is not keeping up with them.

China is in much the same position as we are:  why should they make extra efforts to limit CO2 emissions when the US isn't doing anything?

China shut down its last coal-fired train last year.  We are still running several coal-fired trains.  China's coal-fired trains were being used by climate change deniers in the US as evidence that China was not making headway in controlling carbon emissions.

Doug

 

China also ended deforestation in and went on a massive replanting binge several years ago. 

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Backlash Against Renewables Surged In 2021, With 31 Big Wind And 13 Big Solar Projects Vetoed Across US

Of the many whoppers that renewable-energy promoters use while advocating for huge increases in the use of wind and solar, the most absurd claim is that building massive amounts of new renewable energy capacity won’t require very much land. Indeed, that assertion is often made by climate activist Bill McKibben.

Or consider a report published in 2020 by San Francisco-based Energy Innovation, a “nonpartisan energy and environmental policy firm,” which claimed that all of the wind and solar kit needed to get us to 90 percent zero-carbon electricity would amount to a mere “28,200 square kilometers” (about 10,900 square miles). The report’s authors helpfully point out that that much territory would be “about triple the land currently devoted to golf courses, and equivalent to about half the land owned by the Department of Defense.” It must be noted that one of the authors of that report, Sonia Aggarwal, now works in the White House in the Office of Domestic Climate Policy as a senior policy advisor. 

cont...

Backlash Against Renewables Surged In 2021, With 31 Big Wind And 13 Big Solar Projects Vetoed Across US (forbes.com) 

Ausubel, the director of the Program for the Human Environment at Rockefeller University nails the situation when he says: “Wind and solar may be renewable, but they are not ‘green.’”

 

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2 hours ago, Piney said:

China also ended deforestation in and went on a massive replanting binge several years ago. 

I know.  I sold them some weed barrier.

Doug

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For those who may be numerically challenged, 28,000 square kilometers is about 0.3% of the total US land area.

We could cover that with only 10% of the 280,000 square kilometers in Nevada, alone. BLM has about 20,000 sq km there.

And you don't even really need that much, if one actually takes advantage of more spatially-dense solutions like "newcyular".

Forbes editorial seems to be making a big deal about the astroturfed anti-energy campaigns which occupy the hours of fearful NIMBYs. But come, on, people, you're smarter than that!

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  • 4 weeks later...

The only problem I have with wind and solar is that I think as it stands right now, it will not be the solution that replaces the problems we have at this moment. I view it as a stepping stone. It is a move in the right direction for the sake of helping the environment but with enough time, we will have better and more logical solutions. On a small scale, solar is one of the best options I think people have not only for saving money on electricity but cutting down on the environmental taxation they produce. Having solar panels on new housing should be standard moving forward. At least for major city areas which consume the most and produce the most waste and pollution. 

No matter the efforts made in places like the US, not much of an impact will be made until India and China both get on board and cut down on their pollution. I just don't see that happening in my lifetime unfortunately. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/2/2024 at 3:42 AM, medes said:

China is building a token number of those useless devices and building coal fired power stations as fast as they can, (you know why l know that because Australia is selling them the coal).

 

Of course they're burning Australian coal.  It's cheaper than mining their own.

Doug

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On 4/2/2024 at 3:48 AM, medes said:

I think that Doug, (yeah l know) believes that buying a lie for 20 years makes him an expert? I was a kid when Flannery pushed this crap at the UN in the late 80's, then we got the world ending, tipping point every decade crappola so l guess l have 50 years experience.

Except l don't have to excessively post in order to prove anything.

I have a Ph.D. in Environmental Science  What are your qualifications?

Doug

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On 4/2/2024 at 3:43 PM, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Climate change will go the same way, they'll claim something the science saved the planet whilst inventing the next big threat. 

 

That I know of, there are three possible threats pending:  the meltoff of the Arctic Ocean will occur in the 2090s.  The Amazon canopy could reach the upper temperature limits of photosynthesis and shut down.  This could happen any time and already has in a limited way.  The third threat is the opening of a new evaporation basin in the North Pacific that will draw warm water northward.

All three have happened in the geologic past.  An ice-free Arctic Ocean occurred from 9500 to 5500 BP.

Doug

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On 4/2/2024 at 3:42 AM, medes said:

China is building a token number of those useless devices and building coal fired power stations as fast as they can, (you know why l know that because Australia is selling them the coal).

 

What good does it do us if China doesn't join in the effort?

What good does it do China if we don't join the effort?

Doug

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On 4/3/2024 at 12:07 PM, Doc Socks Junior said:

Plenty of times when Earth was quite happy with high CO2, certainly times when high CO2

Past ecosystems are poor analogues for our current climate.  We want to protect OUR ecosystem, not make the earth better for T. rexes.

Doug

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Posted (edited)
On 4/2/2024 at 9:01 PM, medes said:

We are in the middle of a mini ice age with probably a decade

Not according to my records.  We came out of a "hiatus" about 12 years ago.  Since then things have been getting warmer.

That hiatus was due to acid from burning high-sulfur coal in China (Australian coal?).  When China reduced its emissions, the hiatus ended.

 

Want to reduce China's use of coal?  Work out a deal with Australia not to sell them any.

Doug

Edited by Doug1066
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On 4/3/2024 at 9:34 PM, medes said:

https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/polar-vortex-arctic-blast-us-2024

Warmest lol, maybe you should contact FOXnews and set them straight then?

Maybe I should.  But do you expect them to publish truth that refutes the "Orange Turd (as his lawyer called him)?"

 

As a result of reduced Arctic Ocean ice cover, the Polar Vortex has relocated to Greenland during the winter months.  Storms trying to bypass it divert southward, bringing Arctic air to Ontario and eastern United States.  That IS climate change and you can't see it.  Open your eyes.

Doug

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On 4/2/2024 at 10:08 PM, OpenMindedSceptic said:

The whole climate change debacle was started with a proven lie by a bunch of scientists in the East of England. Their email chain showed them faking their results. Since then, funded research 'proved them right' even though it was a lie. All I'm wondering these days is how much it costs to get the results you want from a scientist.

 

We have posted the record of the theft of private emails by anti-climate fraudsters many times on UM.  Go back and read some of the posts.

Doug

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On 4/2/2024 at 10:55 PM, medes said:

This scam pays well Previous US presidents who crapped on about abating rising sea levels then proving that they didn't believe a word of it bought a luxury beach house on Hawaii's coastline. Or a house in Marthyards Vineyard near the coast again.

As long as you get three bent scientists you can do a peer reviewed paper on anything and get it published.

Sea level rise is quite slow, at most, about three feet per century.  It varies with location: being only four inches per century around Australia.  Any house you buy on the coast today will have time to decay to dust before sea level rise threatens it.

Sea level rise occurs by fits and starts as storm erode new beach areas.  I've been waiting for one to hit Mar-a-Lago.

Doug

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On 4/3/2024 at 12:53 AM, medes said:

I am all over that also over that the BOM keep bombing, since they really want our seas to boil and the angry sharks to really get pi....ed, because fruitcakes outnumber sane people who crunch the numbers and report the weather, (farmers are pretty p...ed at them as well buying the hot weather and getting rain).

Australia has always had drought and then rain, l lived through a 10 year drought once and you know what the world didn't end in fact we got a s...load of rain at the end of it.

The desal plant will come in handy and not because of the garbage about us frying to a crisp and the world ending but because of our out of control immigration and fruitcakes bleating on about how hot it is when it isn't.

 

It will be heat that kills people.  In 2005 Paris lost 15,000 people to heat stroke.  When the wet bulb temperature reaches 95F humans die.

The country most-likely to be depopulated first is Sudan.  Parts of the US are already heating up (I live in one of them; temp increase of 1F in 20 years.).

Doug

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On 4/3/2024 at 7:11 AM, medes said:

Summers are hot lol, summers in our state have been short and cold during the hottest year crappola and l remember stickin hot summers with weeks typically ranging from 34 to 40 dg, in the 1970's or when C02 levels were way lower and we had scientists bleating on about a mini ice age.

Temperature rise is determined by the 30-year average temp.  Three or four hot or cold years in a row don't prove anything.  It takes lots of data to determine whether there has been a change in climate.  One of the chief problems is that even the longest temperature series only go back about 400 years and those are only for a few cities.  To go back farther takes proxy data like tree rings (longest series:  12,470 years)  and ice cores.  Lake Van produced a 600,000-year varve series.  Soil records going back 10,000 years occur in lots of places.

What you're trying to say is that tree rings don't respond to rainfall and atmospheric temperatures are not affected by CO2 levels when well over a century of research indicates otherwise.

Doug

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I'm signing off this thread.  I retire next Thursday and will be taking a long vacation.

Doug

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Has anyone mentioned the affects of the sun on earth's climate as well as the earth's position in the ecliptic and how that also factors in? 

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I would just like all factors to be considered. 

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13 hours ago, Trelane said:

Has anyone mentioned the affects of the sun on earth's climate as well as the earth's position in the ecliptic and how that also factors in? 

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I would just like all factors to be considered. 

Yep, that's something people know about. Well spotted.

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