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What Atheists Believe Happens When Life Comes to an End


Grim Reaper 6

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I know some people in the world who are what the world considers highly intelligent, respected, and successful and they absolutely admit to not only believing in ghosts, but actually having a real experience with one that was not nice, and was very creepy.

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3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Please don’t forget motorcycles.

My bad!!!

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Just now, Guyver said:

I know some people in the world who are what the world considers highly intelligent, respected, and successful and they absolutely admit to not only believing in ghosts, but actually having a real experience with one that was not nice, and was very creepy.

My older sister is like that. Intelligent and can be hard to have a discussion with because she is quite blunt. She can offend people without realising it. She actually seemed surprised that I didn't believe. She is quite sure she saw may father at his house after his death during the cleanup. 

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Some may say the spirit or soul of a person is a kind framework that exists within the body as a part of the body, as the skeletal system provides a platform for all the body systems, the spirit is a sort of energy force around and within the body that gives us consciousness.  It’s not visible, nor is it measurable, but it is believed by many people to actually exist, and it just might.  Dr, Eben Alexander says it does.  He says that when we die we sometimes go back to spiritual earth.

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And we sometimes start from the bottom and work ourselves back up again, but many other just lay at the bottom and stay there.  I’m just saying.

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May I ask a question here?  If this notion about a person having a soul or spirit is such a bunch of BS, how is it that a person can have their chakras aligned, and why does acupuncture work?

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22 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Some may say the spirit or soul of a person is a kind framework that exists within the body as a part of the body, as the skeletal system provides a platform for all the body systems, the spirit is a sort of energy force around and within the body that gives us consciousness.  It’s not visible, nor is it measurable, but it is believed by many people to actually exist, and it just might.  Dr, Eben Alexander says it does.  He says that when we die we sometimes go back to spiritual earth.

You're really good at pointing out interesting aspects of things 🏆

I think you mean with 'spiritual earth' what I mean when I say 'noosphere' the 'Gaia consciousness energy bubble' permeating and encompassing all 'spirits' roaming Earth. The realm of ideas, ie possibilities that exist only as meme/thought unrealised potential of 'consciousness acting on matter'

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1 minute ago, Guyver said:

May I ask a question here?  If this notion about a person having a soul or spirit is such a bunch of BS, how is it that a person can have their chakras aligned, and why does acupuncture work?

I believe I read that acupuncture works kind of like reflex points. I think that's more a nerves than a soul thing. Interrupting the flow of the Chi maybe kind of as metaphor acceptable because after all if there's no juice (electricity) in the flow (nerves) Elvis (soul) has left the building.

The magic of mind over body is proven in the placebo effect, when you suggest to your body that help is coming and it starts fixing itself. The same as when you have a doctor you trust just telling them how you feel and them telling you what you have 'makes you feel better' right away.

 

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2 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

I believe I read that acupuncture works kind of like reflex points. I think that's more a nerves than a soul thing. Interrupting the flow of the Chi maybe kind of as metaphor acceptable because after all if there's no juice (electricity) in the flow (nerves) Elvis (soul) has left the building.

The magic of mind over body is proven in the placebo effect, when you suggest to your body that help is coming and it starts fixing itself. The same as when you have a doctor you trust just telling them how you feel and them telling you what you have 'makes you feel better' right away.

 

Yes…but some people believe that the soul is connected to the nervous system.  It is described as a silver chord.

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27 minutes ago, Guyver said:

May I ask a question here?  If this notion about a person having a soul or spirit is such a bunch of BS, how is it that a person can have their chakras aligned, and why does acupuncture work?

The coloured chakra treatments mostly have their origins in California. 

The traditional chakra framework(s) are quite different to the modern version. 

https://hareesh.org/blog/2016/2/5/the-real-story-on-the-chakras

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3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The coloured chakra treatments mostly have their origins in California. 

The traditional chakra framework(s) are quite different to the modern version. 

https://hareesh.org/blog/2016/2/5/the-real-story-on-the-chakras

That’s all fine and good.  But we are talking about something that is not understood, so….if Westerners are gravitating toward elements of this belief system that seem to sort of mirror their own beliefs about the soul….the beliefs become transfused, and they morph into something else.  Which is fine.  It’s just that maybe as this occurs we come closer to the truth, or closer to understanding something of the soul. 

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It’s like belief transference.  One group believes something, another group picks up on it.  It happens all the time everywhere in every aspect of our existence.  Language, cultural, and beliefs have been transferred over time.  It’s because that’s what humans do to survive by nature.  We exchange to coexist.

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15 minutes ago, Guyver said:

That’s all fine and good.  But we are talking about something that is not understood, so….if Westerners are gravitating toward elements of this belief system that seem to sort of mirror their own beliefs about the soul….the beliefs become transfused, and they morph into something else.  Which is fine.  It’s just that maybe as this occurs we come closer to the truth, or closer to understanding something of the soul. 

It strikes me it went in reverse. 

People were looking for a spiritual experience so they made one. You know me, an how I'm an atheist. I can't bring myself to believe that there is such a thing as a soul. To be your soul is who you are inside as a person, not what is inside a person. It's a sum of your life experience. 

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16 minutes ago, Guyver said:

It’s like belief transference.  One group believes something, another group picks up on it.  It happens all the time everywhere in every aspect of our existence.  Language, cultural, and beliefs have been transferred over time.  It’s because that’s what humans do to survive by nature.  We exchange to coexist.

That I think is the biggest aspect as to why religion is not trustworthy. It's a man made creation. It's a culmination of philosophies which is just a different way of saying we made it all up. 

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19 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That I think is the biggest aspect as to why religion is not trustworthy. It's a man made creation. It's a culmination of philosophies which is just a different way of saying we made it all up. 

Maybe we made it up out of experience?  

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Isn’t experience how we learn things?  Maybe we humans learned that people have a soul that cannot be seen, and this belief has been shared with others who also believe in something like that.  It means that there could be and probably is something to it.  Where there is smoke there is fire brother.

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27 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It strikes me it went in reverse. 

People were looking for a spiritual experience so they made one. You know me, an how I'm an atheist. I can't bring myself to believe that there is such a thing as a soul. To be your soul is who you are inside as a person, not what is inside a person. It's a sum of your life experience. 

Fine.  But, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin and many others heard and became influenced by a sound.  Blues musicians from America.  It inspired them, they copied it, spun it in their own way, sent it back, and it became Rock and Roll!  I’d say that is a pretty good example of proof that cultural exchange exists.  Maybe the soul exists too.  I’m not sure if I want it to or not…but if it does exist then I am powerless to change it.

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29 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Maybe we made it up out of experience?  

Philosophy. 

It's not experience. 

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21 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Fine.  But, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin and many others heard and became influenced by a sound.  Blues musicians from America.  It inspired them, they copied it, spun it in their own way, sent it back, and it became Rock and Roll!  I’d say that is a pretty good example of proof that cultural exchange exists.  Maybe the soul exists too.  I’m not sure if I want it to or not…but if it does exist then I am powerless to change it.

Without doubt it exists. That's where Chinese whispers make it into something completely different. 

Cultural exchange is great. It opens up ideas and shared the best we have to offer. 

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28 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Isn’t experience how we learn things?  Maybe we humans learned that people have a soul that cannot be seen, and this belief has been shared with others who also believe in something like that.  It means that there could be and probably is something to it.  Where there is smoke there is fire brother.

Try and resolve that though. 

Can you or anyone today identify something that can't be seen, felt or measured ? There are many believers today and many more people than ever. Surely of someone could identify something a thousand years ago they could today? 

More than that of you have a good look at the origins of afterlife it soul claims, it all goes back to literature. Basically guesses. I always saw those people as more pioneers who started the journey of knowledge. I'm not sure the people who came up with the idea would hold onto them if they could be here today. Early questions were raised by curious minds. I think they would honestly be more likely to accept modern findings over their original ideas. And be excited that they inspired what would eventually become the sciences. 

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2 hours ago, Guyver said:

Some may say the spirit or soul of a person is a kind framework that exists within the body as a part of the body, as the skeletal system provides a platform for all the body systems, the spirit is a sort of energy force around and within the body that gives us consciousness.  It’s not visible, nor is it measurable, but it is believed by many people to actually exist, and it just might.  Dr, Eben Alexander says it does.  He says that when we die we sometimes go back to spiritual earth.

I'm not a fan of Eben. I think he's a sham artist. 

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The only thing that happens at death is the body is abandoned. Just as a person's contious self, personality, sense of humor, and ethics, leave no sign behind at death, the soul leaving leaves no sign behind either.

None of that is "energy". Basically its highly refined cellular configurations, with the "energy" only needed to keep those cells alive. 

Maybe someday science will be able to map a sense of humor, or a persons ethics, to observe and catagorize... And maybe not.

The soul might never be recorded, and confirmed by science.

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16 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Can you or anyone today identify something that can't be seen, felt or measured ?

Can you truly measure a person's ethics, morality, or sense of humor?

Rough groupings might be done, but is that really measuring? Objectively asking questions can result in liars, or people misjudging themselves, or others. Bias is rampant. So... can we measure immaterial things such as these?

Edited by DieChecker
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54 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Can you truly measure a person's ethics, morality, or sense of humor?

Rough groupings might be done, but is that really measuring? Objectively asking questions can result in liars, or people misjudging themselves, or others. Bias is rampant. So... can we measure immaterial things such as these?

They are starting to discover genetic connections to certain mental issues tied to "moral corruption" such as sociopathy. 

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7 minutes ago, Piney said:

They are starting to discover genetic connections to certain mental issues tied to "moral corruption" such as sociopathy. 

True, but thats like identifying damage in a dam, but not necessarly recording how much water is behind it, or going through the damaged area.

We're all capable of great good, or great evil. And even though we know some may be predisposed, the actual amount from 1 to 10, would still be unknown.

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