Appeals court pauses $464M judgment in Trump’s New York fraud case

[aquatus1]

39 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

I'm aware.  My point is the amount of the fine clearly violates the 8th amendment.

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Please show another case where an individual has been assessed a $500 million judgment in a case where there are no victims and no one has (outside of the AG) has alleged fraud. 

More accurately, "The fixing of punishment for crime and penalties for unlawful acts is within the police power of the state, and this Court cannot interfere with state legislation in fixing fines, or judicial action in imposing them, unless so grossly excessive as to amount to a deprivation of property without due process of law." Waters-Pierce Oil Co. v. Texas, 212 U.S. 86

If you are arguing that there is an Excessive Fine violation ( I imagine you meant fines, and not bail), you would need to show that there was a violation of that last part "due process of law".  Judge Engoron's ruling is freely available to anyone, and it explains in excruciating detail every aspect of the case, including the fines and the reasoning behind it.  Claiming that there are no victims is as irrelevant as it is nonsensical; this was a civil fraud trial.  Civil trials do not need victims.

Quote

Trump has been a fixture in NYC for 50 years and up until now, no NY AG has thought to use this law against Trump while he was supposedly committing all this fraud?  You guys cannot be this daft.  Not only that the bank that was supposedly defrauded testified on behalf of Trump and no money was lost?

That's on Trump.  If he had stayed quietly in his gold-plated apartment and kept laundering money from foreign interests, no one would have cared beyond the normal contempt.  He decided to put himself up on the world stage, and realized too late that players at that level don't get ignored.

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

That's on Trump.  If he had stayed quietly in his gold-plated apartment and kept laundering money from foreign interests, no one would have cared beyond the normal contempt.  He decided to put himself up on the world stage, and realized too late that players at that level don't get ignored.

They don't?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  You are a riot!!  

Hi there, I'm Hilary Clinton.  I illegally kept sensitive government documents on a private server in the bathroom of one of my mansions and when questions arose I illegally destroyed as much evidence as I could before the FBI confiscated it.  I then was allowed to walk because I'm a powerful politician and they just pretty much ignored my illegal actions.  On the other hand since a political outsider stole our favorite toy to manipulate the citizenry, (the presidency) we will do everything in our power to destroy him utterly.  He makes it easy because really he's not much brighter than we are. 

 

[+susieice]

Good to see you again aquatus 1.

[aquatus1]

Just now, OverSword said:

They don't?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  You are a riot!!  

Hi there, I'm Hilary Clinton.  I illegally kept sensitive government documents on a private server in the bathroom of one of my mansions and when questions arose I illegally destroyed as much evidence as I could before the FBI confiscated it.  I then was allowed to walk because I'm a powerful politician and they just pretty much ignored my illegal actions.  On the other hand since a political outsider stole our favorite toy to manipulate the citizenry, (the presidency) we will do everything in our power to destroy him utterly.  He makes it easy because really he's not much brighter than we are. 

 

And you haven't changed.  She was tried, due process of law was carried, and the results have stood the test of time, with little more than contempt being strangely offered as both acknowledgment and refusal of the process taking place.  The only difference is that if there was any actual evidence of here crimes, she was smart enough to hide it, whereas Trump was not.

And no, Trump is really not much brighter than Hillary Clinton.  He is, in fact, considerably less so.  Fortunately, many of his supporter love him precisely for that.  Makes him relatable to them.

[aquatus1]

Just now, susieice said:

Good to see you again aquatus 1.

Hey girl!  Not really back seriously, just seeing how the old haunt is doing.

[+OverSword]

Just now, aquatus1 said:

She was tried

This went to court?  No.  You are wrong.  No charges were filed.  I haven't changed?  Who are you?

[+susieice]

3 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

Hey girl!  Not really back seriously, just seeing how the old haunt is doing.

As you can see we're trying. 

[Edumakated]

2 hours ago, susieice said:

Last time.

Trump’s Claims He Can’t Get Fraud Bond Undercut By These Billion-Dollar Cases (forbes.com)

PolitiFact | Trump’s $454 million bond for New York fraud case is not unprecedented

From your first link...  of course, buried a few paragraphs in.

The cases involving these billion-dollar bonds are distinguished from Trump’s in that major corporations are the ones posting the bonds, while Trump and companies he controls are liable for the bond he has to pay. Trump’s attorneys made this distinction in a court filing Monday, arguing, “In the unusual circumstance that a bond of this size is issued, it is provided to the largest public companies in the world, not to individuals or privately held businesses.” 

A significant difference relative to the cases provided.  

 

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Edumakated said:

You guys cannot be this daft.

No, it's far worse than mere ignorance.  It is a kind of manufactured hatred that is creepy to watch.  None of these people that you see raging against Trump have ever met him, spoken to him, or been negatively impacted in any tangible way by him or his actions.  I can think of no other comparable situation in my life where people have been so willing and energetic in their attacks against such a person.  It really is a kind of mental illness.  They genuinely seem willing to tear the nation down around themselves if it means they can destroy this man.  THAT is insanity and it has been created by media messaging. 

[F3SS]

[+susieice]

34 minutes ago, and-then said:

No, it's far worse than mere ignorance.  It is a kind of manufactured hatred that is creepy to watch.  None of these people that you see raging against Trump have ever met him, spoken to him, or been negatively impacted in any tangible way by him or his actions.  I can think of no other comparable situation in my life where people have been so willing and energetic in their attacks against such a person.  It really is a kind of mental illness.  They genuinely seem willing to tear the nation down around themselves if it means they can destroy this man.  THAT is insanity and it has been created by media messaging. 

Don't bet on that. I know a lot of people who went to his casinos in Atlantic City. I'm an hour's drive from Atlantic City. I did so myself and we've seen him. Also talked to people who worked for him. He is not a nice man. He stuck a lot of people. His history in NYC isn't good either. 

Edited March 26 by susieice

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Don't bet on that. I know a lot of people who went to his casinos in Atlantic City. I'm an hour's drive from Atlantic City. I did so myself and we've seen him. Also talked to people who worked for him. He is not a nice man. 

There are a LOT  of "not nice" people in this world.  Can you honestly say that the man has done something specifically to you that would account for the depth of loathing you seem to have?  I'm totally serious.  I've never seen anything like this.  Let's just be totally honest.  If a report came across today that he had died, do you deny that you'd be part of a very large group who would be celebrating to one degree or another?  It isn't rational, it is totally emotion-based and I've never hated anyone who I hadn't been harmed by.  I don't think I'm that unusual in that respect.

[Edumakated]

2 minutes ago, and-then said:

There are a LOT  of "not nice" people in this world.  Can you honestly say that the man has done something specifically to you that would account for the depth of loathing you seem to have?  I'm totally serious.  I've never seen anything like this.  Let's just be totally honest.  If a report came across today that he had died, do you deny that you'd be part of a very large group who would be celebrating to one degree or another?  It isn't rational, it is totally emotion-based and I've never hated anyone who I hadn't been harmed by.  I don't think I'm that unusual in that respect.

It is hilarious.  All one has to do is look back at how Trump was treated in the 80s/90s and even early 2000s vs now.   It is like two alternative universes.  Trump has guest appearances in Home Alone, Fresh Prince of Bel Aire, etc.   Cities were happy to have his developments.  I remember how Chicago went from being happy he built a high rise to wanting to remove his name from it.  Oprah nicely interviewed him about future Presidential ambitions.  He said the same things then as he does now.  Yet no one considered him as Hitler 2.0.

It is definitely a mental disorder.

[F3SS]

3 minutes ago, and-then said:

I'm totally serious.  I've never seen anything like this.

Idk where you lurk but you should see the comments on left wing forums like reddit. They are simply aghast. Truly beside themselves and its not unusual to see comments wishing for his death. Their funniest cope is that he's extremely privledged and coddled by the legal system and that democrats are afraid to act against him because they would appear biased. Great entertainment. And yes, a free Trump is their reasoning to want to burn it all down. How can he keep getting away with things they wonder hysterically. 

[+susieice]

16 minutes ago, and-then said:

There are a LOT  of "not nice" people in this world.  Can you honestly say that the man has done something specifically to you that would account for the depth of loathing you seem to have?  I'm totally serious.  I've never seen anything like this.  Let's just be totally honest.  If a report came across today that he had died, do you deny that you'd be part of a very large group who would be celebrating to one degree or another?  It isn't rational, it is totally emotion-based and I've never hated anyone who I hadn't been harmed by.  I don't think I'm that unusual in that respect.

Being totally honest, I've heard enough about what he's like. He didn't prove to me he was any better in his first term. Buy stock in his companies or better yet, take a job with one. You'll be in the same position as the others. Take no personal responsibility. I don't give billionaires money so they don't have to spend their own. That isn't rational. No, I wouldn't celebrate if he died. I don't think I'd really miss him but I wouldn't be overly happy either. That man is never going to change. At first, I hoped he would do alright but a lot of people ended up regretting they were ever involved. And they weren't democrats.

Edited March 26 by susieice

[+susieice]

5 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Idk where you lurk but you should see the comments on left wing forums like reddit. They are simply aghast. Truly beside themselves and its not unusual to see comments wishing for his death. Their funniest cope is that he's extremely privledged and coddled by the legal system and that democrats are afraid to act against him because they would appear biased. Great entertainment. And yes, a free Trump is their reasoning to want to burn it all down. How can he keep getting away with things they wonder hysterically. 

And no F3SS. I don't lurk in social media sites. I don't X or Twitter or whatever. Or Instagram. Or Tic Tok. I'm in here and I play a couple of games on Facebook and stay in regular touch with family. I delete any political post or ad that shows up on my page no matter who's it is. I have no idea what this is all about.

[jmccr8]

58 minutes ago, and-then said:

No, it's far worse than mere ignorance.  It is a kind of manufactured hatred that is creepy to watch.  None of these people that you see raging against Trump have ever met him, spoken to him, or been negatively impacted in any tangible way by him or his actions.  I can think of no other comparable situation in my life where people have been so willing and energetic in their attacks against such a person.  It really is a kind of mental illness.  They genuinely seem willing to tear the nation down around themselves if it means they can destroy this man.  THAT is insanity and it has been created by media messaging. 

Hi And Then

None of the people raging for him have personally met or spoke with him either

 

[Zebra3]

9 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Idk where you lurk but you should see the comments on left wing forums like reddit. They are simply aghast. Truly beside themselves and its not unusual to see comments wishing for his death. Their funniest cope is that he's extremely privledged and coddled by the legal system and that democrats are afraid to act against him because they would appear biased. Great entertainment. And yes, a free Trump is their reasoning to want to burn it all down. How can he keep getting away with things they wonder hysterically. 

TDS spreads like wildfire.

[+susieice]

20 minutes ago, Edumakated said:

It is hilarious.  All one has to do is look back at how Trump was treated in the 80s/90s and even early 2000s vs now.   It is like two alternative universes.  Trump has guest appearances in Home Alone, Fresh Prince of Bel Aire, etc.   Cities were happy to have his developments.  I remember how Chicago went from being happy he built a high rise to wanting to remove his name from it.  Oprah nicely interviewed him about future Presidential ambitions.  He said the same things then as he does now.  Yet no one considered him as Hitler 2.0.

It is definitely a mental disorder.

How was he treated in the 80's and 90's? You just go on and on. You don't read.

Edited March 26 by susieice

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, Zebra3 said:

TDS spreads like wildfire.

I watched an interview with I will characterize as an extremely woke hiring manager at EA.  This is no surprise at all.  She was ridiculous.

[Zebra3]

21 minutes ago, susieice said:

Buy stock in his companies or better yet, take a job with one.

Met some, they love it. Lots of convos with the hotel staff especially.

[F3SS]

9 minutes ago, susieice said:

And no F3SS. I don't lurk in social media sites. I don't X or Twitter or whatever. Or Instagram. Or Tic Tok. I'm in here and I play a couple of games on Facebook and stay in regular touch with family. I delete any political post or ad that shows up on my page no matter who's it is. I have no idea what this is all about.

Hey there, none of my post was directed at you even though it stemmed from AT talking to you. I thought to add that I wouldnt think you'd be one to gloat if he died but figured you can handle yourself just fine. I lurk elswhere but UM is my home base for contributing commentary. I'm also not allowed to comment on anything political on reddit. I can but they downvote you into oblivion until your comment disappears if you don't tow the line. They also ban you  without warning or cause as they're moderated by extremists. 

[Zebra3]

[F3SS]

Just now, Zebra3 said:

They definitely like to pull a He-Man and yell I have the power!

[+susieice]

1 minute ago, F3SS said:

Hey there, none of my post was directed at you even though it stemmed from AT talking to you. I thought to add that I wouldnt think you'd be one to gloat if he died but figured you can handle yourself just fine. I lurk elswhere but UM is my home base for contributing commentary. I'm also not allowed to comment on anything political on reddit. I can but they downvote you into oblivion until your comment disappears if you don't tow the line. They also ban you  without warning or cause as they're moderated by extremists. 

Thanks F3SS. I'm older and can remember better days. When Trump was first elected I had hoped he would do alright but as things went on, he just hadn't changed. I remember the 80's and 90's when his finances were frozen by NY banks until he paid up his loans. There were some banks from Japan involved too. I linked all this information to the forum. Trump University went through a lot of lawsuits. It was never an accredited college in any way. It just cost a lot to go. He hasn't changed. Instead of a government that works together for the people there's just division. I don't see one side working any differently from the other. I don't know what has to happen to stop what's going on but I really don't see Trump as the answer. Both parties have agendas that are really going to rile people up but I guess it just has to happen.