Revisiting God Constructs

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/19/2024 at 5:08 AM, eight bits said:

There's no supernatural devil here

From what you've been saying all along, the Bible is but a fairytale in your eyes. You profess to not believe any of it, maybe just the devil part. You seem to like the devil. But anyways... here you are, attempting to decipher a spiritual text with unspiritual eyes. "God is a Spirit" that you say you don't believe in...so what makes you think you'll really grasp His concepts? You can't. 

11. “He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”.... 

13. “Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.” Matt 13:11-13. 

[+Hammerclaw]

32 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

From what you've been saying all along, the Bible is but a fairytale in your eyes. You profess to not believe any of it, maybe just the devil part. You seem to like the devil. But anyways... here you are, attempting to decipher a spiritual text with unspiritual eyes. "God is a Spirit" that you say you don't believe in...so what makes you think you'll really grasp His concepts? You can't.

Neither do you.

Psalm 23

 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

² He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

³ He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

⁴ Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

⁵ Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

⁶ Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

From what you've been saying all along, the Bible is but a fairytale in your eyes. You profess to not believe any of it, maybe just the devil part. You seem to like the devil. But anyways... here you are, attempting to decipher a spiritual text with unspiritual eyes. "God is a Spirit" that you say you don't believe in...so what makes you think you'll really grasp His concepts? You can't. 

Because even in your theory of the case, God has chosen to work in human language through human writers. So, while I am unlikely to fathom God's concepts, I think that I might be able to understand some of the human expressions we find in the Bible.

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Matt 13:11-13

Mark's Jesus says much the same thing (4:10-12). I have already asked you for your thoughts about why, if Matthew was there to write down what Jesus said, he's copying Mark (and not just here, but lots), when Mark wasn't there.

I really wish you'd answer that question. There are many ways that that could happen, but I can only guess what specific thoughts you have on the problem.

Anyway, thank you for the synopsis of the Isaiah and Ezekiel translations into English. Since you've already quoted both passages in English, and we've already discussed the relationships between the English and the sources of the important parts that were available to the King James committee, was there some additional point you wished to make?

Finally, I hesitate to ask this, but of what relevance is Jesus's choice to use parables? We're discussing Isaiah and Ezekiel, and while both surely can use parables, in the passages we're discussing, they are very clear whose downfall they are celebrating: the leaders of Babylon and Tyre.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

From what you've been saying all along, the Bible is but a fairytale in your eyes. You profess to not believe any of it, maybe just the devil part. You seem to like the devil. But anyways... here you are, attempting to decipher a spiritual text with unspiritual eyes. "God is a Spirit" that you say you don't believe in...so what makes you think you'll really grasp His concepts? You can't. 

11. “He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”.... 

13. “Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.” Matt 13:11-13. 

Projection again. Any Rabbi will tell you what these passages mean and Paul and I have told you what they write and teach. 

Your the one who doesn't understand what they mean and since it's the Jews holy book, I go with what they say it means. Not some uneducated 19th Century American. 

@eight bits The screws are loosening.....

[cormac mac airt]

46 minutes ago, Piney said:

Projection again. Any Rabbi will tell you what these passages mean and Paul and I have told you what they write and teach. 

Your the one who doesn't understand what they mean and since it's the Jews holy book, I go with what they say it means. Not some uneducated 19th Century American. 

@eight bits The screws are loosening.....

No screws Piney, she uses Elmer’s Glue in desert heat. 
 

cormac

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:54 PM, Hammerclaw said:

No one knows God is real. One believes God is real. That is why Christianity is called a Faith.

Let me tell you something sir, if that was all I had. I can say with perfect clarity and assurance, I would not be a Christian, especially a Seventh-Day Adventist, "the people of the book." The denomination with the most light/truth than all others. I can definitely say, I don't believe - I know God and angels are real. But that's my experience not yours I understand. 

On 4/24/2024 at 9:54 PM, Hammerclaw said:

The Bible is far from perfect or it wouldn't have side and center columns of corrections. It may contain the word of God but has been corrupted by 2000 years of handling by men. The Christian religion is based on Faith, not certain knowledge. No words written by mere mortals are more important than one's Faith.

There's crazy textual reliability for the Bible, extensive. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 11:18 AM, HerNibs said:

Kind of doesn't answer my question...

Are you saying YOU are spiritually minded enough to decree that you interpretation is THE only interpretatioin that is correct?

Nibs

It's not my interpretation that matters, but what saith the Spirit of God. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:34 PM, HerNibs said:

On 4/25/2024 at 5:14 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The word of God is not limited to "private interpretation." It is well known among the churches that this is a prophetic unveiling of Lucifer, the fallen angel. I'm not the only one saying it. 

Expand  

Ok. So who else says that the interpretation you stated is the one and only correct one?

I don’t need preaching. Just a direct answer.

Nibs

Read them. It's truly common sense and it's a common view in Christianity also. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:48 PM, Sherapy said:

On 4/25/2024 at 5:41 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

This is the challenge - we are not comparing apples to apples. More like apples to dragon fruit. You're attempting understand a spiritual book thru unspiritual eyes. 

We are in a world laced with deception and lies all around, people with corrupt agendas siding with demonic spirits and bringing the world to a time of trouble such as never was. If what I'm saying to you is true, you have to understand that that changes everything. 

Expand  

Read, take a deep breath, the good news is you're allowing your personal fears and concerns to influence how you interpret and share “spiritual” teachings.  The problem is your approach to the religious texts you do not bring a balanced perspective, you do not consider historical context, cultural influences, or your many personal biases.

I definitely consider all those, I've spoken on them several times. There are plenty of historical evidence that supports biblical narrative. It's not a personal fear to tell you that there are people in the world who are siding with the fallen angels.. [yes yes I know you say they aren't real..] That's really nothing new. Anyone who's..."awake" already know these things are happening in our world. But anways .. 

[+Hammerclaw]

3 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

I definitely consider all those, I've spoken on them several times. There are plenty of historical evidence that supports biblical narrative. It's not a personal fear to tell you that there are people in the world who are siding with the fallen angels.. [yes yes I know you say they aren't real..] That's really nothing new. Anyone who's..."awake" already know these things are happening in our world. But anways .. 

No, there is not. There is a lot of belief in its absolute reliability. The scriptures are like wheat on the threshing floor, tossed in the air so the chaff the wind blows away. What falls to the floor are kernels of truth. I'm a Baptist. The Salvation of Jesus Christ to us is absolute, not conditional like your pathetic cult believes. My soul is sealed unto the Lord. No haint nor devil or fallen angel can touch it. I fear no evil. God knows his own and even those who call themselves atheist and agnostic will have a place at his table. It was man who invented a litmus test for salvation, not God. God leaves no one behind.

[Piney]

9 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

There are plenty of historical evidence that supports biblical narrative.

No there isn't.

9 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

There's crazy textual reliability for the Bible, extensive. 

No there isn't. 

[cormac mac airt]

13 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Let me tell you something sir, if that was all I had. I can say with perfect clarity and assurance, I would not be a Christian, especially a Seventh-Day Adventist, "the people of the book." The denomination with the most light/truth than all others. I can definitely say, I don't believe - I know God and angels are real. But that's my experience not yours I understand. 

There's crazy textual reliability for the Bible, extensive. 

What a bull**** made up title. The Bible is not and was never one book, it is and was 66 books by some 30+ writers written over centuries NOT ALL of which were used everywhere, meaning that some books were known and used in some areas where others were not and each with their own take of what Judaism and Christianity was and would become. Yours is a bull**** one size fits all interpretation that is both unevidenced and meaningless. 
 

cormac

[CrimsonKing]

7 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

What a bull**** made up title. The Bible is not and was never one book, it is and was 66 books by some 30+ writers written over centuries NOT ALL of which were used everywhere, meaning that some books were known and used in some areas where others were not and each with their own take of what Judaism and Christianity was and would become. Yours is a bull**** one size fits all interpretation that is both unevidenced and meaningless. 
 

cormac

Well said...

Not too mention,new discoveries are being made all the time...there are probably many stories untold,hidden in undiscovered caves on scrolls somewhere.

How can anyone claim to know the whole truth, when we can't be sure everything ever written on the subject has been found.

Unchecked faith is just something I'll never be able to comprehend.

[cormac mac airt]

9 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Well said...

Not too mention,new discoveries are being made all the time...there are probably many stories untold,hidden in undiscovered caves on scrolls somewhere.

How can anyone claim to know the whole truth, when we can't be sure everything ever written on the subject has been found.

Unchecked faith is just something I'll never be able to comprehend.

Read doesn’t even accept what IS known, she much prefers to fall back on “the Bible says so” as a defense, that’s both ignorance and incompetence at its finest. 
 

cormac

[CrimsonKing]

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

 “the Bible says so” 
 

cormac

Yeah that doesn't hold up so well sometimes against scientific and historical scrutiny...

Have an aunt somewhat like that,not SDA level but "it's in the Bible" is when I usually left out the door...

And I'm no scholar...(proof...I started this last line here with "and") 😆

[Piney]

47 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

What a bull**** made up title. The Bible is not and was never one book, it is and was 66 books by some 30+ writers written over centuries NOT ALL of which were used everywhere, meaning that some books were known and used in some areas where others were not and each with their own take of what Judaism and Christianity was and would become. Yours is a bull**** one size fits all interpretation that is both unevidenced and meaningless. 
 

cormac

The "People of the Book" is a actual Muslim term for anyone who is a member of the Abrahamic religions.

 

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

The "People of the Book" is a actual Muslim term for anyone who is a member of the Abrahamic religions.

 

And yet it doesn’t help Read’s argument any as there was no “book” (singular) in Jesus’ time, nor would there be for centuries. 
 

cormac

[eight bits]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

... she much prefers to fall back on “the Bible says so”

Even when the Bible plainly says something else.

[Piney]

11 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Even when the Bible plainly says something else.

You have to interpret through the eyes of a undereducated, plagiarizing self hating mulatto with control issues.

[Piney]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

And yet it doesn’t help Read’s argument any as there was no “book” (singular) in Jesus’ time, nor would there be for centuries. 
 

cormac

There was probably about a hundred Gospels. But Athanasius and his bully troops were working for God who forgot about.....dare I say....contradictions.

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 4:31 AM, eight bits said:

Your further elaboration of that is your word, not God's, not the words of whoever wrote the passages, but yours

No need for me to really press this issue further. The proof is there for whoever have eyes to see it. Isaiah 14:12+ and Ezekiel 28:12+ are both speaking of the fall of a gifted angel. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:56 PM, eight bits said:

When Satan-as-malefactor developed in Jewish literature, Jewish authors of that time could allude back to Isaiah and Ezekiel. When Christianity emerged, the new authors could allude to both the earlier layers of Jewish writers. When the modern writers of Star Trek TNG cooked up the character of Ardra, they drew on both Jewish and Christian literature to create their "devil."

This is how literature works.

Think you're missing Job .. 

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

"And the LORD said unto Satan" Job 1. 

 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:56 PM, eight bits said:

This is how literature works.

This is how the Bible works - truth is revealed more and more with each succeeding prophet and over the course of many years, "here a little, there a little" making one complete whole with perfect symmetry. These characters were there from the beginning (God/Jesus & Satan) but are revealed more and more throughout the book until the end where Satan is fully exposed and tossed into the lake of fire to pay for his crimes against humanity. God is also fully revealed more and more, a complete whole, with love and justice and perfect purity and hatred of life destroying evil.  

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:56 PM, eight bits said:

Chapter 9 describes a vision that occurs in the first year of Darius. Gabriel does indeed appear. Chapter 10 describes a different vision that occurs in the third year of Cyrus. Daniel seems to have scrambled the Persian chronology, but the two chapters on their face occur in different years.

By all means, if you think that Gabriel appears in both chapters, then that is your interpretation. The text, however, is silent about the name of the messenger-angel in chapter 10. Expect, then, that some other people will have their own interpretations, and some will just accept that the text leaves the matter unresolved.

You missed chapter 8? I did point it out. Gabriel was commission to come and interpret the visions for Daniel. 

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:58 PM, Hammerclaw said:

and opinionated.

Got that right! 💖