Revisiting God Constructs

[ReadTheGreatControversyEGW]

Just now, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Got that right! 💖

The rest, no. 

[eight bits]

23 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Think you're missing Job .. 

We've already discussed the depiction of Satan in Job, faithful administrator of tests decreed by God himself, with meets and bounds established by God. That's not Satan-as-malefactor, the term that I used and which you quoted. That's Satan the faithful executor of God's will and welcome courtier before the throne of God.

22 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

This is how the Bible works - truth is revealed more and more with each succeeding prophet and over the course of many years, "here a little, there a little" making one complete whole with perfect symmetry. These characters were there from the beginning (God/Jesus & Satan) but are revealed more and more throughout the book until the end where Satan is fully exposed and tossed into the lake of fire to pay for his crimes against humanity. God is also fully revealed more and more, a complete whole, with love and justice and perfect purity and hatred of life destroying evil.  

So, when Isaiah and Ezekiel described human kings, they and their first readers understood what they were writing about: human kings. Later writers alluded to these and other earlier writers. You interpret later as more-revealed, which is your interpretation, a subjective opinion to which you are entitled, but not something actually or objectively in the text which you are interpreting. The text describes human kings.

40 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You missed chapter 8? I did point it out. Gabriel was commission to come and interpret the visions for Daniel. 

And Gabriel did interpret a specific vision in chapter 8. He interprets another vision in chapter 9. But there is nothing in chapter 10 that names Gabriel as the interpreter of yet a third vision, nor is there anything in chapters 8 or 9 that gives Gabriel any exclusive role as the designated interpreter of all of Daniel's visions.

I am not sure what you are looking for from me. If your interpretation of chapter 10 is that Gabriel is yet again the interpreter, then that is peachy with me. But the objective fact is that the text doesn't identify the interpreter in chapter 10.

[cormac mac airt]

16 minutes ago, eight bits said:

We've already discussed the depiction of Satan in Job, faithful administrator of tests decreed by God himself, with meets and bounds established by God. That's not Satan-as-malefactor, the term that I used and which you quoted. That's Satan the faithful executor of God's will and welcome courtier before the throne of God.

So, when Isaiah and Ezekiel described human kings, they and their first readers understood what they were writing about: human kings. Later writers alluded to these and other earlier writers. You interpret later as more-revealed, which is your interpretation, a subjective opinion to which you are entitled, but not something actually or objectively in the text which you are interpreting. The text describes human kings.

And Gabriel did interpret a specific vision in chapter 8. He interprets another vision in chapter 9. But there is nothing in chapter 10 that names Gabriel as the interpreter of yet a third vision, nor is there anything in chapters 8 or 9 that gives Gabriel any exclusive role as the designated interpreter of all of Daniel's visions.

I am not sure what you are looking for from me. If your interpretation of chapter 10 is that Gabriel is yet again the interpreter, then that is peachy with me. But the objective fact is that the text doesn't identify the interpreter in chapter 10.

IMO she’s waiting for you to tell her how great she is at interpreting what’s NOT in the text/s, because she’s special/has special knowledge. I have a feeling Hell will freeze over first. 
 

cormac

[Piney]

12 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Think you're missing Job .. 

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

"And the LORD said unto Satan" Job 1. 

 

1:6 "One day when the sons of God came to attend on El Shaddai among them came Satan."

Satan was a member of God's court. Not his adversary. 

1:7" So El Shaddai said to Satan, 'Where have you been?'"

So much for God being all knowing...

[+Hammerclaw]

40 minutes ago, Piney said:

1:6 "One day when the sons of God came to attend on El Shaddai among them came Satan."

Satan was a member of God's court. Not his adversary. 

1:7" So El Shaddai said to Satan, 'Where have you been?'"

So much for God being all knowing...

"From going to and fro in the Earth and from walking up and down in it."

Edited May 1, 2024 by Hammerclaw

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

"Walking to and fro in the Earth and up and down in it."

That was some linguistic artistic license.. 

'Prowling about on Earth', he answered, 'roaming around there'.

[+Hammerclaw]

12 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The rest, no. 

The rest is right. Souls are eternal, and on death return to the presence of God from whence they came. They don't lie cold in wormy earth like your cult believes. 

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

That was some linguistic artistic license.. 

'Prowling about on Earth', he answered, 'roaming around there'.

 

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

"From going to and fro in the Earth and from walking up and down in it."

This is the exact quote from the KJV. I was close.

[Piney]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

 

This is the exact quote from the KJV. I was close.

My quote was from the Jerusalem with the Strong's Lexicon. But since Little Ellen thinks the KJ is official, yours is more appropriate. 

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

My quote was from the Jerusalem with the Strong's Lexicon. But since Little Ellen thinks the KJ is official, yours is more appropriate. 

More poetic. I have a study Bible with four different translations, side-by-side.80% of the KJV was taken from the Tyndale translation and it's English was archaic by Shakespeare's time.

Edited May 1, 2024 by Hammerclaw

[Piney]

6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

the KJV was taken from the Tyndale translation and it's English was archaic by Shakespeare's time.

Looking out that window again? 😄

[+Hammerclaw]

4 minutes ago, Piney said:

Looking out that window again? 😄

"There are more things in heaven and in earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Edited May 1, 2024 by Hammerclaw

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

"There are more things in heaven and in earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Hamlet is a favorite of mine along Titus Andronicus. Especially with Anthony Hopkins.

[+Hammerclaw]

4 minutes ago, Piney said:

Hamlet is a favorite of mine along Titus Andronicus. Especially with Anthony Hopkins.

Hamlet is great for phrases we still use today.

Edited May 1, 2024 by Hammerclaw

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Hamlet is great for phrases we still use today.

I have a great uncle's little pocket Hamlet he carried while outriding herds.  

[+Hammerclaw]

14 minutes ago, Piney said:

Looking out that window again? 😄

"In my mind's eye"

Hamlet

 

[+Sherapy]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:54 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Let me tell you something sir, if that was all I had. I can say with perfect clarity and assurance, I would not be a Christian, especially a Seventh-Day Adventist, "the people of the book." The denomination with the most light/truth than all others. I can definitely say, I don't believe - I know God and angels are real. But that's my experience not yours I understand. 

There's crazy textual reliability for the Bible, extensive. 

Read, at best you are simply promoting your own interpretation of religious texts your focus seems to be geared towards propagating fear as opposed to nurturing empathy.IMHO,  you have created a god construct that frames you as special and righteous because it gives you a sense of control because you are so driven by your fears. I get that you are emphasizing and exclusive to your own struggles with power dynamics and inexperience and have found a coping strategy in SDA for managing the latter, but the issue isn’t how Read copes with her fears or inexperience.
 

The issue is your biases are taking away from a balanced and objective discussion, the issue is that your contributions on UM are detrimental to meaningful and respectful discussions due to lack of critical analysis, by acknowledging, identifying and addressing them and nurturing an ability to set aside biases and explore other perspectives… well…it could go along way in contributing to a more balanced and meaningful dialogue that includes all points of view. 
 

Your thoughts? 

Edited May 1, 2024 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:54 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The denomination with the most light/truth than all others. I can definitely say, I don't believe - I know God and angels are real. But that's my experience not yours I understand. 

I've heard that the devil is a bright and luminous angel. The king of lies and deception. I'm still unsure that you know both god and angels exist and you know that you're simply not being deceived by demonic forces. You could be believing in a lie. 

[cormac mac airt]

17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Read, at best you are simply promoting your own interpretation of religious texts your focus seems to be geared towards propagating fear as opposed to nurturing empathy.IMHO,  you have created a god construct that frames you as special and righteous because it gives you a sense of control because you are so driven by your fears. I get that you are emphasizing and exclusive to your own struggles with power dynamics and inexperience and have found a coping strategy in SDA for managing the latter, but the issue isn’t how Read copes with her fears or inexperience.
 

The issue is your biases are taking away from a balanced and objective discussion, the issue is that your contributions on UM are detrimental to meaningful and respectful discussions due to lack of critical analysis, by acknowledging, identifying and addressing them and nurturing an ability to set aside biases and explore other perspectives… well…it could go along way in contributing to a more balanced and meaningful dialogue that includes all points of view. 
 

Your thoughts? 

In all fairness the OT was geared towards fear, the NT towards something more palatable to the Gentiles sensibilities since they were the main audience. Biblical Jesus’ claiming to be there to fulfill the Law was essentially a lie as the Law was never intended nor designed to be palatable to the masses. 
 

cormac

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

In all fairness the OT was geared towards fear, the NT towards something more palatable to the Gentiles sensibilities since they were the main audience. Biblical Jesus’ claiming to be there to fulfill the Law was essentially a lie as the Law was never intended nor designed to be palatable to the masses. 
 

cormac

Well said, Mac. Thank you.

[+Hammerclaw]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:01 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

I definitely consider all those, I've spoken on them several times. There are plenty of historical evidence that supports biblical narrative. It's not a personal fear to tell you that there are people in the world who are siding with the fallen angels.. [yes yes I know you say they aren't real..] That's really nothing new. Anyone who's..."awake" already know these things are happening in our world. But anways .. 

Poppycock. If that was true, I'd have to listen to and believe people like you and that's not going to happen.

Edited May 1, 2024 by Hammerclaw

[CrimsonKing]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

Hamlet is a favorite of mine 

I got to play the fat guy in a junior high play 😆 

[Antigonos]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Hamlet is a favorite of mine along Titus Andronicus. Especially with Anthony Hopkins.

Of the screen adaptations of Hamlet, my favorite is the 1948 Olivier version with Peter Cushing as Osric.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Antigonos said:

Of the screen adaptations of Hamlet, my favorite is the 1948 Olivier version with Peter Cushing as Osric.

Mine is when Phil Silvers had the castaways do a musical version on Gilligan's Island.

[+Sherapy]

On 4/29/2024 at 7:01 PM, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

I definitely consider all those, I've spoken on them several times. There are plenty of historical evidence that supports biblical narrative. It's not a personal fear to tell you that there are people in the world who are siding with the fallen angels.. [yes yes I know you say they aren't real..] That's really nothing new. Anyone who's..."awake" already know these things are happening in our world. But anways .. 

Read, an aside: your statement expresses a strong personal belief in the existence of fallen angels, reflecting a deep conviction intertwined with your faith and cultural influences. This belief  you hold is what is highlighting the impact of your subjective interpretation and influencing your internal beliefs on your perception of reality. Your “certainty” goes beyond mere belief, basically demonstrating a strong conviction in the actuality of divine entities. From a psychological perspective, it is this “conviction” that is influencing how you interpret experiences, recall memories, and perceive reality.

Human memories are not just static recordings but dynamic reconstructions shaped by knowledge, beliefs, emotions, and environmental cues. Memory recall involves reconstructing past events based on present thoughts and feelings, rather than exact playback. Memories can be influenced by external factors like suggestions, social context, or information sources such as books or online searches. Exposure to misinformation, social cues, or group influences, like Bible study groups, can and do contribute to the formation of false memories and inaccuracies in recollection. These factors contribute to the malleability of memories and the complex nature of memory as a construct influenced by internal and external factors.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2024 by Sherapy