Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Revisiting God Constructs


Sherapy

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Hmm, there are of course topics that you don't try to explain to children because they won't and cannot understand, or worse they misunderstand.

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them. FWIW I raised 2 daughters, both now deceased. 
 

cormac

  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Agreed, I don't think it was with ill or hostile intent.  Will rightly earns much of the harsh criticism he receives concerning his ideas, including from me, so it's easy for that to slip inadvertently into things that are more personal.  Thankfully I think we can take credit for Will having a thicker skin than when he joined, so no harm no foul. :tu:

On this, John meant no ill will. I gotta agree about Will, it does seem he is utilizing laugh emojis instead of combativeness. Your right that is growth for Will. 💖

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them. FWIW I raised 2 daughters, both now deceased. 
 

cormac

 

8 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them. FWIW I raised 2 daughters, both now deceased. 
 

cormac

I don’t think it is a secret that communication is not his strong suit. But, he seems to try at times and it couldn’t have been easy on him with what he shared. I am glad his daughter and him are in a good place. 
 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them.

I'd agree for most things yes, but not necessarily for understanding the motivations and emotions of people, especially close family.  The topic may not have come up again in 20 years, a child may need to have some adult relationships under their belt before they can understand the situation, a person may have gotten to know things about their mom or dad in that time that does make them agree that they couldn't have possibly understood when the original questions were asked.  Personally there were many things I didn't understand well until I was in my late 20s, especially relationship-wise. 

There's also the 'personal' possibilities of this also, there could be factors that are simply none of an even grown child's business; maybe there was a short-lived adulterous fling, maybe they had a tough bout with an addiction of some sort, maybe they were grieving or depressed, etc.  Break-ups especially always have two sides to the story, and even people in a broken relationship don't always fully understand even the other partner's perspective so have to be careful about what they say if anything so as to not misrepresent.

I think it's mainly though the idea that it takes time to understand especially our parents as adults, and that sometimes that understanding of them is what is necessary to have some understanding of things in their past.  Even if we set aside all these emotional factors and focus on what you and I especially are usually laser-focused on, 'evidence', we've got a whole whopping four sentences or so of information from an anonymous person on the internet to draw from.  That gruel's pretty thin.

  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Boy, I didn't mean for it to get off track this far, but since it has, I'd like reiterate a couple of things.

I initially brought it up in response to Sheri regarding our back and forth that besides me not being the greatest communicator, which goes without saying, that sometimes trying to explain things to a person who isn't yet in possession of certain experiences, ultimately, no matter how you hard you try, it will pretty much just go in one ear and out the other. No ill will intended Sheri.

I used the example of my eldest daughter to try to convey how a person will usually learn certain things that another person can't show them until it's realized through their own experience. 

Regarding what happened with my daughter, it was something like this. There was a lot of tension in our house when she was a kid due to the issues that finally resulted in her mom divorcing her dad. I don't think it takes much imagination to realize what that tension was like and how it affected the children. It was a regular thing in their lives. Once their mom and I were done with being out of control in their midst, I very often would find it very hard not to be compassionate for my kids for what they were going through. I routinely would take them into a room to do my best to relieve that tension in their lives and explain to them that this was not normal and that when they grow up, they will not have it as a part of their lives. All my kids are happily married and I know although they have their challenges in their marriages, that it's nothing like it was for their mom and dad. Because they were so young and I really was primarily interested in putting their minds at ease, I simply would tell them that all of this will make more sense when they grow up and that perhaps at that time we would have a little talk about it.

So now my daughter having had her first child, (she's 24 now) just born and a few months old, she called me all in tears telling me how upset she was with her mom because her mom, instead of being there for her, was out somewhere doing something with her boyfriend. It was then that she told me that she now understands what I was going through when she was a kid and that it had to take a long time for us to get around to talking about it, like I told her we would. 

So, although I'm not very thrilled to be sharing with you these very personal things, I just hope that you all understand that when it comes to things that posters like myself who come here expressing their faith experiences that there is only so much that can be shared. And the most important thing being, like the empathy I felt towards my daughter being less experienced in life than I was, which turned out to be in the big picture not that much less than the experience I had, I feel the same way about those of you who I regularly converse with. To be honest in most things I don't consider myself to be more advanced, if I can put it that way, than anyone here. But there's one thing I'm certain of and that's that eventually we will all experience the same things spiritually and end up "together" in the same place. 

Peace to you all.

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'd agree for most things yes, but not necessarily for understanding the motivations and emotions of people, especially close family.  The topic may not have come up again in 20 years, a child may need to have some adult relationships under their belt before they can understand the situation, a person may have gotten to know things about their mom or dad in that time that does make them agree that they couldn't have possibly understood when the original questions were asked.  Personally there were many things I didn't understand well until I was in my late 20s, especially relationship-wise. 

There's also the 'personal' possibilities of this also, there could be factors that are simply none of an even grown child's business; maybe there was a short-lived adulterous fling, maybe they had a tough bout with an addiction of some sort, maybe they were grieving or depressed, etc.  Break-ups especially always have two sides to the story, and even people in a broken relationship don't always fully understand even the other partner's perspective so have to be careful about what they say if anything so as to not misrepresent.

I think it's mainly though the idea that it takes time to understand especially our parents as adults, and that sometimes that understanding of them is what is necessary to have some understanding of things in their past.  Even if we set aside all these emotional factors and focus on what you and I especially are usually laser-focused on, 'evidence', we've got a whole whopping four sentences or so of information from an anonymous person on the internet to draw from.  That gruel's pretty thin.

Indeed, the original narrative is vague to say the least. Break ups do have more than one perspective. Marriages are about the people involved both contributing to the demise it is the willingness to own one’s own side and doing whatever it takes to work it out that is best hope for a peaceful dissolution. As always a pleasure chatting and reading your posts. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only question I really got from my kids when they were little is "watcha doin'?" I would either answer them plainly and/or let them help. Was nice having help putting a lot of stuff together.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Boy, I didn't mean it for it to get off track this far, but since it has, I'd like reiterate a couple of things.

I initially brought it up in response to Sheri regarding our back and forth that besides me not being the greatest communicator, which goes without saying, that sometimes trying to explain things to a person who isn't yet in possession of certain experiences, ultimately, no matter how you hard you try, it will pretty much just go in one ear and out the other. No I'll will intended Sheri.

I used the example of my eldest daughter to try to convey how a person will usually learn certain things that another person can't show them until it's realized through their own experience. 

Regarding what happened with my daughter, it was something like this. There was a lot of tension in our house when she was a kid due to the issues that finally resulted in her mom divorcing her dad. I don't think it takes much imagination to realize what that tension was like and how it affected the children. It was a regular thing in their lives. Once their mom and I were done with being out of control in their midst, I very often would find it very hard not to be compassionate for my kids for what they were going through. I routinely would take them into a room to do my best to relieve that tension in their lives and explain to them that this was not normal and that when they grow up, they will not have it as a part of their lives. All my kids are happily married and I know although they have their challenges in their marriages, that it's nothing like it was for their mom and dad. Because they were so young and I really was primarily interested in putting their minds at ease, I simply would tell them that all of this will make more sense when they grow up and that perhaps at that time we would have a little talk about. 

So now my daughter having had her first child, (she's 24 now) just born and a few months old, she called me all in tears telling me how upset she was with her mom because her mom, instead of being there for her, was out somewhere doing something with her boyfriend. It was then that she told me that she now understands what I was going through when she was a kid and that it had to take a long time for us to get around to talking about it, like I told her we would. 

So, although I'm not very thrilled to be sharing with you these very personal things, I just hope that you all understand that when it comes to things that posters like myself who come here expressing their faith experiences that there is only so much that can be shared. And the most important thing being, like the empathy I felt towards my daughter being less experienced in life than I was, which turned out to be in the big picture not that much less than the experience I had, I feel the same way about those of you who I regularly converse with. To be honest in most things I don't consider myself to be more advanced, if I can put it that way, than anyone here. But there's one thing I'm certain of and that's that eventually we will all experience the same things spiritually and end up "together" in the same place. 

Peace to you all.

 

 

Will, thank you for finally opening up. Congrats to being a grandpa. And, welcome to being human like the rest of us. I am glad you and your daughter talk, it’s good for you to talk, share and make friends. UM is helping you grow. 

Edited by Sherapy
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

UM is helping you grow. 

 

Yes, you're right. Thanks to you all.

 

 

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes, you're right. Thanks to you all.

 

 

Your welcome:P

This has been a productive week, combativeness is in check, your redirecting yourself more and opening up. Kudos.  Now post a pic. 🤣

Edited by Sherapy
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Your welcome:P

This has been a productive week, combativeness is in check, your redirecting yourself more and opening up. Kudos.  Now post a pic. 🤣

 

Look, I really don't think you need something that ugly in your life :no: :)

 

 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Look, I really don't think you need something that ugly in your life :no: :)

 

 

Fair enough, one request no more with the “ugly comments” in regards, to John. Deal?:lol:
 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them. FWIW I raised 2 daughters, both now deceased. 
 

cormac

So sorry to hear this Mac. You must miss them all the time. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

So sorry to hear this Mac. You must miss them all the time. 

Every single day. Except for my son who is a Police Chief the rest of our family is gone. 
 

cormac

  • Like 2
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Every single day. Except for my son who is a Police Chief the rest of our family is gone. 
 

cormac

Gosh, I can’t even wrap my head around how hard that must be for you. You strike me as a devoted and loving family man. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Fair enough, one request no more with the “ugly comments” in regards, to John. Deal?:lol:
 

 

 

Sorry John 😔 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, eight bits said:
6 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You think so? Mhmm perhaps you got a point there. How do you fix the problem of evil, when it's a choice thing? You can't force people to do what is right. Can you? Should you? 

Oh, Read, you are so on the hook for evil having a supernatural, not just human, aspect.

You can't dance away from the problem of evil with a handwave about how human free will explains it

Tell me something, you really don't believe there is a supernatural world? A world with beings beyond human sight? Would you tell me the truth? Probably not lol 😆 

The devil is the originator of evil. That devil you also said you don't believe exists. Understandable. But how did this alien from another world gain access to ours? How did he gain the right to control and manipulate human minds almost completely without detection? Human free will. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Tell me something, you really don't believe there is a supernatural world? A world with beings beyond human sight? Would you tell me the truth? Probably not lol 😆 

The devil is the originator of evil. That devil you also said you don't believe exists. Understandable. But how did this alien from another world gain access to ours? How did he gain the right to control and manipulate human minds almost completely without detection? Human free will. 

Human free will is a illusion, our so called free will is manipulated by actions we dwell upon in our past. The only way to gain free will is to break the chains that bind us to our past, or our past will repeat itself and continue to control our current actions.

JIMHO

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

True LG, but it DOESN’T take 20 years for them to understand or have something explained to them. FWIW I raised 2 daughters, both now deceased.

cormac

I am so very very sorry to hear this Mac, in my opinion there is nothing worse than losing a child. My wife and I lost our daughter (only child) in October of 2012. To date, it still seems like only yesterday and the pain has never gone away, so honestly, I feel you brother, I truly do!!!!!!!:cry:

  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Tell me something, you really don't believe there is a supernatural world? A world with beings beyond human sight? Would you tell me the truth? Probably not lol 😆 

The devil is the originator of evil. That devil you also said you don't believe exists. Understandable. But how did this alien from another world gain access to ours? How did he gain the right to control and manipulate human minds almost completely without detection? Human free will. 

No, he's not. That is a VERY LATE Jewish creation that came AFTER the Babylonian Captivity. Christianity just took the intrusive merging of Babylonian ideas and ran with it. An actual textual timeline would be the following: 

 

Quote

 

Satan: Ha-satan (the adversary, the accuser) originates before 550 BC within part of the Tanakh as a heavenly prosecutor, subordinate to Yahweh who tests the loyalty of Yahweh’s followers

Samael: from circa 516 BC – 70 AD in early Talmudic and Misrashic literature he is not identified with Satan yet. Only in later Midrashim is he entitled “head of satans”.

Satan: the Devil originates after 550 BC as an amalgamation of satan/ha-satan with Samael and Samyaza

Samyaza: Chief of the Watchers from Book of Enoch between the end of the Babylonian Captivity and circa 300 BC

 

cormac

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I am so very very sorry to hear this Mac, in my opinion there is nothing worse than losing a child. My wife and I lost our daughter (only child) in October of 2012. To date, it still seems like only yesterday and the pain has never gone away, so honestly, I feel you brother, I truly do!!!!!!!:cry:

Sorry for your loss. It's a pain that one never gets over. 

cormac

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Sorry for your loss. It's a pain that one never gets over. 

cormac

The same to you, you know I thought that while the pain will never go away it would become more manageable. Well, this October will be 14 years, and to date whenever I discuss the subject or when that anniversary rolls around the pain is just as intense as the day it occurred. I often talk about severing ties with the past to deal with pain. However, in this case the wonderful memories I have of her while alive outweigh all the pain that comes along with it.

Peace my friend!:tu:

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

Tell me something, you really don't believe there is a supernatural world? A world with beings beyond human sight? Would you tell me the truth? Probably not lol 😆 

Are you asking me whether I'd lie to you, or whether I'd simply decline to answer your question about "a world with beings beyond human sight?"

Your answer had better be the latter.

I'll answer the first question. I don't know. "Supernatural" covers a wide range of hypotheses, and it's no secret around here that I'm an agnostic on the question of God, which is just one question among many about the "supernatural world."

6 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

The devil is the originator of evil. That devil you also said you don't believe exists. Understandable. But how did this alien from another world gain access to ours? How did he gain the right to control and manipulate human minds almost completely without detection? Human free will. 

You are correct that I believe that the "devil" does not exist. But you do, and we can discuss things based on the premise that there is such a being.

Going back to @Sherapy's comment, then: Your answer to the problem of evil in a monotheistic regime is that there is a second power in the supernatural world who is in some sense intermediate between the natural world and the One God?

So, God is "One" not in the sense that he is unique in the exercise of supernatural power, but rather in the sense that you refuse to call other bearers of supernatural power "gods." That's a nuanced "mono"theism, to say the least.

I was also curious about how this god-whom-you-dare-not-call-god acquired a right to control and manipulate human minds. I get it that being a god-lite and all that he might have the power to interfere with human cognition, but where would a right to do that come from?

 

  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Look, I really don't think you need something that ugly in your life :no: :)

 

 

Come on fatso, show your stuff!

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

You think so? Mhmm perhaps you got a point there. How do you fix the problem of evil, when it's a choice thing? You can't force people to do what is right. Can you? Should you? 
 

Indeed, it is a huge problem. Any proactive solutions on your end?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.