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The Spirituality of Pagans and Non-Believers


Guyver

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Venting just makes you angrier and that's a proven fact now and I still haven't hit the anger stage....yet. 

All I can say is I'm here for you my friend. Don't do nothing stupid, that's my job.😆

Edited by XenoFish
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6 hours ago, Guyver said:

You ever get to the place where you know you already have everything you need, but still you want more?  Yeah. That’s what I’m talking about.  There is no true satisfaction in this life.

Wrongo!

 

That...

                    ....was a good breath...

 

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7 hours ago, Alex_Rogan said:

is there a thread about the 27 club? Now I wonder who was the first.

I heard when the 27th of the 27 Club dies... the world will end.

Just joking, of course.... or am I?

Brian Jones of the Stones was considered the first 

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3 hours ago, Piney said:

'No One Gets Out Alive'  My mom had that book, but I haven't read it since 8th grade. 

That was the first book on Morrison and the Doors I ever read. It wasn’t until years later that I found out how much BS Danny Sugarman and Ray put into it.

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2 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Brian Jones of the Stones was considered the first 

Robert Johnson is the oldest I'm aware of, although when I was growing up it was mainly Jones, Jimi, Janis, and Morrison that got mentioned.

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47 minutes ago, Piney said:

Venting just makes you angrier and that's a proven fact now and I still haven't hit the anger stage....yet. 

Like I said before. Not having the words is the kindest thing because when most people do have the words they are the wrong ones.

That’s why I’ve been somewhat quiet about it too. But just know that I’m very aware of what you’re going through and if you ever need to talk just pm me man.

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7 hours ago, Guyver said:

 There is no true satisfaction in this life.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

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6 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Robert Johnson is the oldest I'm aware of, although when I was growing up it was mainly Jones, Jimi, Janis, and Morrison that got mentioned.

Yeah it didn’t become a thing again until Cobain.

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11 hours ago, Guyver said:

I don’t claim to be an actual practicing Pagan.  So, if there are some reading this thread, please accept my apologies, I know that formally, I probably fail at describing Paganism.  But, I do consider myself at least partially Pagan, partially Spiritual, and fully Hopeful Agnostic.  Anyway. I am also a non-believer so I believe I am qualified to speak from that perspective.  So, I welcome a discussion from anyone who understands or practices Paganism, those who consider themselves spiritual, or non-believers.

Everyone believes in something so calling yourself a "non-believer" is wrong.  It indicates to me that you are buying the christian BS that anyone who doesn't beileve their stories is a non-believer.  Be more specific, what exactly do you not believe?  

As for the word pagan, it is used by christians to indicate what they call non-believers, however there are so many beliefs that fall under thier "pagan" umbrella because of that, it is a useless word in our society because of the roman influence.  You can't be partially pagan or partially spiritual, which is another word that is misused.    So what do you mean by either of those words, pagan and spiritual?

Are you looking for something that makes sense to you or a label?  Maybe someone who will post something you can add to your belief back pack?

My main belief is that we are all more than the sum of our physical parts and it has nothing to do with any deity.   We are eternal and for the experience of being human on planet earth we do not have the perspective to even understand who we really are in the universe, or even how we are connected to each other and everything.   But that is part of my belief as well, we are all connected to everything, we just have amnesia so that we can have the full experience.   Maybe we all get in line to get a turn to be human on planet earth, and some keep getting back in line because they had so much fun.   Others get in a different line to try some other experience.   This is just my model, we all have to come up with our own if it is something we ponder, but in the large picture it doesn't matter what we believe.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Guyver said:

Even though I am a lifestyle-somewhat practicing pagan and non-believer, I find myself still being spiritual in a way that will be difficult for me to describe, but I will do my best.  I believe in living according to two things, management by objectives, and life by principles.  I believe and support the idea of living by principles, and I consider that a part of my own spirituality.  The reason that I believe that living according to one’s own principles is spirituality is because it is a form of truth. 

 

I see you partially answered my question in post # 3.  

What does the bolded actually mean to you?   If we are meat bodies inhabited by a spirit, animated by some outside of the earth source, then we are all spiritual.  Those that claim science as their religion ignoring a lot of actual science may claim we are not animated from some outside source and that is how they can function here, part of their experience, their beliefs.

I still get that you are using the word spiritual incorrectly, based on your christian upbringing, which makes we wonder if you claim to be agnostic (which is not a non-believer) how do you experience "being spiritual"?

Edited by Desertrat56
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11 hours ago, Alex_Rogan said:

you seem to be flailing through the cosmos, seeking validation, latching onto anything that strokes your ego while attacking anything that does not.

In what way do you feel attacked?   Which word was your trigger word?  I don't see anything about attack in his posts, however you can feel free to pretend like my posts are an attack if you want.   

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1 hour ago, Antigonos said:

That was the first book on Morrison and the Doors I ever read. It wasn’t until years later that I found out how much BS Danny Sugarman and Ray put into it.

My Native grandfather and I joked about the spirit of the dying Rez Rat drunk entering his body. He said the spirit attracted him to more "spirits". 🤪

1 hour ago, Antigonos said:

That’s why I’ve been somewhat quiet about it too. But just know that I’m very aware of what you’re going through and if you ever need to talk just pm me man.

I can't type that much or fast but I had planned to PM you my cell number anyway. 

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Agnosticism seems to come in three forms. The maybe, maybe not, and don't care type.

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17 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I still get that you are using the word spiritual incorrectly

What's the supposedly 'correct' way to use the word 'spiritual'?  It has a range of meanings. 

25 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Everyone believes in something so calling yourself a "non-believer" is wrong.

No it isn't, because that's not what anyone that I know of has ever meant by the term 'non-believer'.

17 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Those that claim science as their religion

There essentially are no such people, unless we're ironically using the word religion 'incorrectly'.

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16 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

What's the supposedly 'correct' way to use the word 'spiritual'?  It has a range of meanings. 

No it isn't, because that's not what anyone that I know of has ever meant by the term 'non-believer'.

There essentially are no such people, unless we're ironically using the word religion 'incorrectly'.

So, what is your definition of spiritual?   

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2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, what is your definition of spiritual?   

You are the one claiming others are using these words incorrectly, maybe you should offer yours?

46 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

If we are meat bodies inhabited by a spirit, animated by some outside of the earth source, then we are all spiritual.

In a way yes, and in another way no.  Usually we use the word 'spiritual' to refer to one's outlook on life and behavior, specifically with regards to religion or religious-like beliefs.  "A spiritual person" usually vaguely refers to that person believing we are inhabited by spirits and usually that they personally adopt various claims of religions, typically at least a benevolent attitude towards others or an aloofness towards the physical world.  You're conflating two different meanings of the term above, what we are ultimately composed of and what our general outlook is.  Atheists may ultimately be 'inhabited by a spirit' but are not 'spiritual' in any way as far as their outlook on reality, since many don't believe in spirits.

There is also the even more vague use of the word 'spiritual' as being more concerned about non-material things, under which even non-believers can be spiritual.  It's got a pretty big range.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You are the one claiming others are using these words incorrectly, maybe you should offer yours?

In a way yes, and in another way no.  Usually we use the word 'spiritual' to refer to one's outlook on life and behavior, specifically with regards to religion or religious-like beliefs.  "A spiritual person" usually vaguely refers to that person believing we are inhabited by spirits and usually that they personally adopt various claims of religions, typically at least a benevolent attitude towards others or an aloofness towards the physical world.  You're conflating two different meanings of the term above, what we are ultimately composed of and what our general outlook is.  Atheists may ultimately be 'inhabited by a spirit' but are not 'spiritual' in any way as far as their outlook on reality, since many don't believe in spirits.

There is also the even more vague use of the word 'spiritual' as being more concerned about non-material things, under which even non-believers can be spiritual.  It's got a pretty big range.

And that was my point.  Spiritual does not have anything to do with any religion.   If you use that word in that context then in my opinion you are using it incorrectly.    If you use the word as an indication of attitude towards life, I may be able to accept that, but it is most often shrouded in religious beliefs and a judgement that some are "spiritual" and others aren't.   That is what I think is incorrect.   If you believe one is a spirit inhabiting a human body you cannot claim that another is not spiritural.   Especially because you don't know why anyone else is on planet earth experiencing being human, most people  don't even know why they are so how can they judge another?   

Edited by Desertrat56
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1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

And that was my point.  Spiritual does not have anything to do with any religion.   If you use that word in that context then in my opinion you are using it incorrectly.

I don't see how.  I agree that spiritual is not restricted to just religion, that is why I used the word 'usually', but it of course fine for religious people to describe their beliefs as 'spiritual' because, even using your definitions, that's what they are.  I treat religion as a sub-category of spirituality as do most dictionaries I can find, not as something that excludes religion.

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10 hours ago, Alex_Rogan said:

Seems like Piney would be great banter on the subject. re: casteneda

Like Jay said: I once had my own site about Castaneda. Almost seems like another lifetime...

 

My blog:

https://alamogordo.wordpress.com/

Some other informative sites:

https://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan7.html

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~jjudd/energy/

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13 hours ago, Guyver said:

I don’t claim to be an actual practicing Pagan.  So, if there are some reading this thread, please accept my apologies, I know that formally, I probably fail at describing Paganism.  But, I do consider myself at least partially Pagan, partially Spiritual, and fully Hopeful Agnostic.  Anyway. I am also a non-believer so I believe I am qualified to speak from that perspective.  So, I welcome a discussion from anyone who understands or practices Paganism, those who consider themselves spiritual, or non-believers.

I looked up Paganism

Paganism is a polytheistic or pantheistic nature-worshipping religion. It is the ancestral religion of the whole of humanity. 

You also say you are a 'nonbeliever'. 

I'm not understanding what you do believe/follow/worship. 

 

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2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I looked up Paganism

Paganism is a polytheistic or pantheistic nature-worshipping religion. It is the ancestral religion of the whole of humanity. 

You also say you are a 'nonbeliever'. 

I'm not understanding what you do believe/follow/worship. 

 

"Pagan" is also used by Catholic priests and commentators for anyone who isn't a Christian.

Marcus Aurelius was called a "pagan" by Church Fathers and he was a Stoic.

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22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Spiritual does not have anything to do with any religion.  

Desertrat, I selected this quote from your post just because I very much agree with it.

Religion is a group thing, the result of a herd mentality; a leader and her/his followers. Sheep obeying the herder, all singing the same song, looking into the same direction.

Spirituality is an individual thing. Could be anything, and not created by 'group think' plus 'leader'. Most often developed by personal experience, and by pondering about the how and why, and lots of reading, or by listening to people who are older, or to those who just suddenly showed up in your life, and said something that made you think like WTF?!

I could go on for an hour like this, but I won't.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Desertrat, I selected this quote from your post just because I very much agree with it.

Religion is a group thing, the result of a herd mentality; a leader and her/his followers. Sheep obeying the herder, all singing the same song, looking into the same direction.

Spirituality is an individual thing. Could be anything, and not created by 'group think' plus 'leader'. Most often developed by personal experience, and by pondering about the how and why, and lots of reading, or by listening to people who are older, or to those who just suddenly showed up in your life, and said something that made you think like WTF?!

I could go on for an hour like this, but I won't.

 

 

You said it perfectly.

With spirituality your personal beliefs change and grow as you learn. 

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12 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Everyone believes in something so calling yourself a "non-believer" is wrong.  It indicates to me that you are buying the christian BS that anyone who doesn't beileve their stories is a non-believer.  Be more specific, what exactly do you not believe?  

 

First of all, thank you for that wonderful post.  Secondly….you nailed it.  I am no longer a believer in the Bible or Christianity.  And like I said…I call myself a pagan in the colloquial sense of the word.  I don’t really have anything to truly believe in…but I do believe there is something sort of divine, in a sense?  I don’t know that divine is the right word.  I guess just supernatural.  I believe in some form of something sort of supernatural. But since I don’t know what it is, I’m really not even looking for it.  It’s just that sometimes thing happen in my life that I think seem spiritual or supernatural even though everyone on this forum knows I’m a sinner.

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19 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

What has brought you to this point?

Existential crisis.  Thank you for the question.  What happened to me is simple.  Have you ever heard that song by Sting called, “If I Ever Lose My Faith in You?” Well, that happened to me.  I lost my faith in a person first, someone I dearly loved…..then….probably at least ten years later I lost my faith in the Bible.  A few years after that I lost my faith in Christianity, which I had identified with since I was 17.  That’s what did me in.  But, since I’m not actually done….I’m still going on lost, but having a good time along the way.  And, I need to change that about myself.  I really know I do.  I need discipline, less drinking, and way more exercise.  I am actually embarrassed about how soft I’ve become.  Anyway…thanks for listening and peace be with you.

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