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Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalize killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass


Grim Reaper 6

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Republicans in the Arizona legislature advanced a bill that would allow residents to use “deadly force” if someone trespasses onto their property in the border state. The bill would serve as an amendment to a state law — known as the Castle Doctrine — that permits the use of deadly force against someone trespassing. The proposed measure would broaden the definition of “premises” to include property, not just a home. While the proposed measure doesn’t mention migrants, Republican state Rep Justin Heap said in February that the amended language of the measure would close a “loophole” over an alleged “increasingly larger number of migrants or human traffickers moving across farm and ranchland.”

Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalise killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass (msn.com) 

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3 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Republicans in the Arizona legislature advanced a bill that would allow residents to use “deadly force” if someone trespasses onto their property in the border state. The bill would serve as an amendment to a state law — known as the Castle Doctrine — that permits the use of deadly force against someone trespassing. The proposed measure would broaden the definition of “premises” to include property, not just a home. While the proposed measure doesn’t mention migrants, Republican state Rep Justin Heap said in February that the amended language of the measure would close a “loophole” over an alleged “increasingly larger number of migrants or human traffickers moving across farm and ranchland.”

Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalise killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass (msn.com) 

I am not totally for or against this.   "deadly weapon" would need defined as it says you can use deadly force if they are committing a crime and have a deadly weapon on them.  

They do need to do something to stop the criminal activities weather it is smash and grab burglaries or squatters. 

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5 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

the measure would close a “loophole” over an alleged “increasingly larger number of migrants or human traffickers moving across farm and ranchland.”

This piece is written to sound like these ranchers/farmers want permission to start blasting away at poor innocent "migrants".  Closer to reality is that hundreds of military age men are coming across that border and trespass on private land and a growing number of them don't just walk past.  They commit crimes as well.  In the case where they were trashing a person's property, harming livestock or attempting to break and enter, yeah, they'd have it coming.  

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6 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

While the proposed measure doesn’t mention migrants...

So - doesn't that render the sensationalist headline redundant?

"Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalize killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass."

should read:

"Arizona Republicans push bill that would defend your right to use force against violent trespassers, regardless of their nationality or immigration status.  Or gender or sexual identity for that matter.  Or if they think they're cats.  Because ffs if they're committing violent crimes and you're scared for your lives, and the cops are hours away, stand up for yourself you great big wuss."

Admittedly I haven't read the link or the proposed legislation (be honest, does anyone?) but the fact that they've hidden this little disclaimer in the body of the text suggests to me this is another 'bloodbath' moment: scream a headline totally out of context but cover your ass in the little-read blurb below.

C'mon resident Trots: prove me wrong!

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7 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Republicans in the Arizona legislature advanced a bill that would allow residents to use “deadly force” if someone trespasses onto their property in the border state. The bill would serve as an amendment to a state law — known as the Castle Doctrine — that permits the use of deadly force against someone trespassing. The proposed measure would broaden the definition of “premises” to include property, not just a home. While the proposed measure doesn’t mention migrants, Republican state Rep Justin Heap said in February that the amended language of the measure would close a “loophole” over an alleged “increasingly larger number of migrants or human traffickers moving across farm and ranchland.”

Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalise killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass (msn.com) 

A hideous bill and I hope it fails miserably.

Undocumented immigrants can come in any color (the one I know is Icelandic, and yes he got caught, imprisoned, deported, etc.)  But if this passes, a number of people will use it as an excuse to shoot anyone who vaguely looks Hispanic.

And that would include Native Americans.

Undocumented migrants don't look any different than anyone else in the US.  I agree with legal methods and with immigration reform (it shouldn't take you 15 years to become a citizen), but this bill is just wrong and smacks of someone swallowing the "Great Replacement Theory" without stopping to consider just how idiotic the concept is.

 

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They already have the Castle Doctrine. 

Castle doctrine - Wikipedia

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9 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

A hideous bill and I hope it fails miserably.

Undocumented immigrants can come in any color (the one I know is Icelandic, and yes he got caught, imprisoned, deported, etc.)  But if this passes, a number of people will use it as an excuse to shoot anyone who vaguely looks Hispanic.

And that would include Native Americans.

Undocumented migrants don't look any different than anyone else in the US.  I agree with legal methods and with immigration reform (it shouldn't take you 15 years to become a citizen), but this bill is just wrong and smacks of someone swallowing the "Great Replacement Theory" without stopping to consider just how idiotic the concept is.

 

However, if they are committing a crime they are kind of asking for it.  Don't commit crimes is the key.

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13 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

people will use it as an excuse to shoot anyone who vaguely looks Hispanic.

And that would include Native Americans.

 

LMAO.

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23 minutes ago, Tom1200 said:

So - doesn't that render the sensationalist headline redundant?

"Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalize killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass."

should read:

"Arizona Republicans push bill that would defend your right to use force against violent trespassers, regardless of their nationality or immigration status.  Or gender or sexual identity for that matter.  Or if they think they're cats.  Because ffs if they're committing violent crimes and you're scared for your lives, and the cops are hours away, stand up for yourself you great big wuss."

Admittedly I haven't read the link or the proposed legislation (be honest, does anyone?) but the fact that they've hidden this little disclaimer in the body of the text suggests to me this is another 'bloodbath' moment: scream a headline totally out of context but cover your ass in the little-read blurb below.

C'mon resident Trots: prove me wrong!

Good morning Tom, I have actually read the information in the OP, and I have read a draft copy of the legislation which I will include here, it is approximately two pages long. Tom before this new law in Arizona was written stand your ground, concealed carry and Reciprocity Carry ( Anyone Resident or not is allowed to carry concealed )   were already laws within the state of Arizona. With that said there was no need for this new law because everything within it was already legal before this law was implemented. I carried concealed for 40 years, before I moved to Korea where guns are illegal to own. In my opinion this new is designed to give anyone in the state of Arizona the right to use deadly force if someone does nothing but trespass which is wrong. I think this new law is telling people to shoot and ask questions later, and this will lead to disaster. Only time will tell but it's fact that just because anyone can concealed carry, doesn't mean they are responsible enough to do so.

Tom have you every carried concealed?

HB 2843:Microsoft Word - HB2843P.docx (azleg.gov)

Arizona a Stand Your Ground State:Is Arizona a Stand Your Ground State? 5 CRUCIAL Insights (chellelaw.com)

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Map & Gun Laws: Arizona Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CCW & Reciprocity Map | USCCA 2021-05-17 (usconcealedcarry.com)

Arizona is a shall-issue, constitutional carry state with concealed weapons permits issued at the state level by the Department of Public Safety1. This means that residents and non-residents are allowed to carry concealed firearms without a permit, but the state will issue permits if the applicant meets the requirementsArizona Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CCW & Reciprocity Map | USCCA 2021-05-17 (usconcealedcarry.com) 

Peace Tom

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10 minutes ago, Myles said:

However, if they are committing a crime they are kind of asking for it.  Don't commit crimes is the key.

So you're advocating for the death penalty for anyone with brown skin committing any crime?

Or are you saying there's a two tier system where anyone who looks illegal can be killed for any reason while any white-skinned person can be handed over to officials for processing through our legal system?

You're probably not aware of it, but migrants and illegals commit fewer crimes than ordinary Americans do (link to one of many studies saying this https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117).  You can get reports that highlight crimes by illegals, but you'll find that these reports don't bother to report on overall crime in that area.  Or they'll pull a "Trump" on you, highlighting one murder while completely ignoring many, many more murders of the same type in the same time period because those were done by American citizens.

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13 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Good morning Tom, I have actually read the information in the OP, and I have read a draft copy of the legislation which I will include here, it is approximately two pages long. Tom before this new law in Arizona was written stand your ground, concealed carry and Reciprocity Carry ( Anyone Resident or not is allowed to carry concealed )   were already laws within the state of Arizona. With that said there was no need for this new law because everything within it was already legal before this law was implemented. I carried concealed for 40 years, before I moved to Korea where guns are illegal to own. In my opinion this new is designed to give anyone in the state of Arizona the right to use deadly force if someone does nothing but trespass which is wrong. I think this new law is telling people to shoot and ask questions later, and this will lead to disaster. Only time will tell but it's fact that just because anyone can concealed carry, doesn't mean they are responsible enough to do so.

Tom have you every carried concealed?

HB 2843:Microsoft Word - HB2843P.docx (azleg.gov)

Arizona a Stand Your Ground State:Is Arizona a Stand Your Ground State? 5 CRUCIAL Insights (chellelaw.com)

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Map & Gun Laws: Arizona Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CCW & Reciprocity Map | USCCA 2021-05-17 (usconcealedcarry.com)

Arizona is a shall-issue, constitutional carry state with concealed weapons permits issued at the state level by the Department of Public Safety1. This means that residents and non-residents are allowed to carry concealed firearms without a permit, but the state will issue permits if the applicant meets the requirementsArizona Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CCW & Reciprocity Map | USCCA 2021-05-17 (usconcealedcarry.com) 

Peace Tom

Not much to add other than you've echoed my concerns.  I'm not a gun owner but I appreciate your added information here.

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1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

So you're advocating for the death penalty for anyone with brown skin committing any crime?

Or are you saying there's a two tier system where anyone who looks illegal can be killed for any reason while any white-skinned person can be handed over to officials for processing through our legal system?

You're probably not aware of it, but migrants and illegals commit fewer crimes than ordinary Americans do (link to one of many studies saying this https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117).  You can get reports that highlight crimes by illegals, but you'll find that these reports don't bother to report on overall crime in that area.  Or they'll pull a "Trump" on you, highlighting one murder while completely ignoring many, many more murders of the same type in the same time period because those were done by American citizens.

Where in the bill does it say brown skin people or migrants?  Perhaps you can show us.   It clearly states that they must posses a deadly weapon.  I am not an advocate for this but it does do some good.  

Illegal immigrant crimes are worse that American crimes because they should not be here.  Pretty simple.  This bill would also affect Americans who are committing crimes.

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1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

Not much to add other than you've echoed my concerns.  I'm not a gun owner but I appreciate your added information here.

Thanks what it all boils down to is the fact that this new law was not needed all the bases were covered. Like I said shooting someone for trespass is the wrong answer. I think this new law will come back to bite Arizona in the Ass!!!!!!!!:tu:

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1 minute ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Thanks what it all boils down to is the fact that this new law was not needed all the bases were covered. Like I said shooting someone for trespass is the wrong answer. I think this new law will come back to bite Arizona in the Ass!!!!!!!!:tu:

I agree.  However this may give owners some courage to tell the trespassers to move on.  

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

I agree.  However this may give owners some courage to tell the trespassers to move on.  

Like I said there was no need for this law, all bases were covered in the previous laws. In realty this law serves one purpose and that is make certain that trespassing is another offence where it is permissible to use deadly force. Give it time this will blow up in Arizona's face, just wait until some idiot uses trespassing as an excuse to shoot someone, it's only a matter of time sadly.:yes:

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11 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Tom have you every carried concealed?

Are you for real?  I'm British - we're not even allowed to think unpleasant things about others.  We're not allowed to defend ourselves with science, logic or bad language, never mind firearms - concealed or otherwise.

14 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

there was no need for this new law because everything within it was already legal before this law was implemented.

If I get time I'll study the proposals, even though they don't affect me.  All I'll offer at this point is - sometimes laws need reorganising and reiterating to make them relevant to changing situations.  And if the border crisis is really as bad as some are saying - maybe revised legislation is necessary to address the developing challenges?

One thing I won't do is parrot any mainstream media portrayal of all Arizona Republicans as callous, ignorant, psychotic xenophobes just lookin' for an excuse to kill unwhites.  Well, not until the Trots post relevant links, and I do some research of my own.

Peace back atcha!

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Tom1200 said:

Are you for real?  I'm British - we're not even allowed to think unpleasant things about others.  We're not allowed to defend ourselves with science, logic or bad language, never mind firearms - concealed or otherwise.

If I get time I'll study the proposals, even though they don't affect me.  All I'll offer at this point is - sometimes laws need reorganising and reiterating to make them relevant to changing situations.  And if the border crisis is really as bad as some are saying - maybe revised legislation is necessary to address the developing challenges?

One thing I won't do is parrot any mainstream media portrayal of all Arizona Republicans as callous, ignorant, psychotic xenophobes just lookin' for an excuse to kill unwhites.  Well, not until the Trots post relevant links, and I do some research of my own.

Peace back atcha!

I don't either, and I certainly didn't parrot anything. But according to the laws in place there was absolutely need for this law because all the tenants of it were already in the previous laws implemented by the state.

I have actually been in this situation back in the 1990s where I shot someone in Washington State. I was exonerated because of the situation; however I wish that it never would have happened. Taking another life is not an easy thing to do, and you never forget it!

Peace back atcha!!!!!:D

Edited by Grim Reaper 6
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Posted (edited)

Headline: Arizona Republicans push bill that would legalise killing undocumented migrants accused of trespass

Fourth Paragraph: While the proposed measure doesn’t mention migrants

Welcome to Clown World 🤡

For those who think the headline doesn't matter, read through the posts in this thread, people have already made the mistake of thinking this law was written specifically to murder people of colour!

Edit: Quotes from thread: 

"if this passes, a number of people will use it as an excuse to shoot anyone who vaguely looks Hispanic." 

"are you saying there's a two tier system where anyone who looks illegal can be killed for any reason while any white-skinned person can be handed over to officials for processing through our legal system?"

Edited by Paranoid Android
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58 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

So you're advocating for the death penalty for anyone with brown skin committing any crime?

Why are you so focused on race.  I know what the headline says, but this doesn't actually target any certain group of people, unless that group is anyone trying to hurt you on your property.  Prior to this proposal it was only someone in your home or car.  Personally I don't see the need for this legislation, if you need to shoot someone in whos criminal behavior in endangering you in your house then that's plenty for me.  @Grim Reaper 6 you read the legislation is a race or nationality specified in it?

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1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Why are you so focused on race.  I know what the headline says, but this doesn't actually target any certain group of people, unless that group is anyone trying to hurt you on your property.  Prior to this proposal it was only someone in your home or car.  Personally I don't see the need for this legislation, if you need to shoot someone in whos criminal behavior in endangering you in your house then that's plenty for me.  @Grim Reaper 6 you read the legislation is a race or nationality specified in it?

No, none of that is mentioned. But the new legislation is just a regurgitated version of laws already on the books. Frankly I don't understand why this law was even proposed it makes no sense, and technically it serves no purpose! 

So why are lawmakers proposing it, that is the real question!!:yes:

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6 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

No, none of that is mentioned. But the new legislation is just a regurgitated version of laws already on the books. Frankly I don't understand why this law was even proposed it makes no sense, and technically it serves no purpose! 

So why are lawmakers proposing it, that is the real question!!:yes:

likely the previous law only specifies within your home.  Usually it's not legal to shoot someone in your front yard unless you can prove you needed to.  Sounds like this is to relax that part of the requirements and is probably to the advantage of people way out in the country who's "yard" is several acres like a ranch or farm.

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7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

likely the previous law only specifies within your home.  Usually it's not legal to shoot someone in your front yard unless you can prove you needed to.  Sounds like this is to relax that part of the requirements and is probably to the advantage of people way out in the country who's "yard" is several acres like a ranch or farm.

No the stand your ground law allows someone to literally stand your ground wherever you are. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

likely the previous law only specifies within your home.  Usually it's not legal to shoot someone in your front yard unless you can prove you needed to.  Sounds like this is to relax that part of the requirements and is probably to the advantage of people way out in the country who's "yard" is several acres like a ranch or farm.

Probably will be restricted to the curtilage and not the south forty. 

There was a case in Texas that has stand your ground laws and a property owner was charged with the shooting because the trespasser was retreating. I'm sure that if you don't scoot or I'll shoot will have such limitations. 

Edited by Buzz_Light_Year
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29 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

No the stand your ground law allows someone to literally stand your ground wherever you are. 

But they had the Castle Doctrine, not stand your ground, right?

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