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3 Body Problem: is the universe really a ‘dark forest’ full of hostile aliens in hiding?


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3 Body Problem: is the universe really a ‘dark forest’ full of hostile aliens in hiding?

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We have no good reason to believe that aliens have ever contacted Earth. Sure, there are conspiracy theories, and some rather strange reports about harm to cattle, but nothing credible. Physicist Enrico Fermi found this odd. His formulation of the puzzle, proposed in the 1950s and now known as “the Fermi Paradox”, is still key to the search for extraterrestrial life (Seti) and messaging by sending signals into space (Meti).

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, and life is at least 3.5 billion years old. The paradox states that, given the scale of the universe, favourable conditions for life are likely to have occurred many, many times. So where is everyone? We have good reasons to believe that there must be life out there, but nobody has come to call.

Read More: ➡️ The Conversation

 

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I believe there's a lot of life throughout the universe. It's foolish to think that in the vastness of the universe only us, on this little planet, developed life. Some may be intelligent and some maybe not. Some may be advanced like us. Some could have advanced to the point where they've already destroyed their civilization. Personally I don't think they've come here but anything is possible. Maybe some small microscopic forms of life made it here on asteroids or meteors. Maybe some couldn't survive our atmosphere. Maybe some did. Maybe we'll find them. Maybe we won't. 

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1 minute ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

The paradox states that, given the scale of the universe, favourable conditions for life are likely to have occurred many, many times. So where is everyone? We have good reasons to believe that there must be life out there, but nobody has come to call.

I'd suggest life elsewhere in the universe is abundant- why wouldn't it be?

Why 'some' feel alien races would be far more advanced than us kinda baffles me!

The reason IMO no one 'has come to call' yet is because we're all probably at roughly the same level of tech?

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My opinion:

There are about 200 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy and approximately 1.5 planets per star, or 300 billion planets in our galaxy.

Further, astronomers studying a small number of these planets have discovered many earth twins. So, I feel life is abundant in our galaxy.

But, a get together on other planets is not an easy thing to do. It would take man 6,000 years to reach our closest star, Proxima Centauri, which means, it just won't be getting done, as best we know.

If beings from other planets or other dimensions know how to utilize so-called short cuts, then it may be possible for us to host these guests that visit our planet. 

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13 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

My opinion:

There are about 200 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy and approximately 1.5 planets per star, or 300 billion planets in our galaxy.

Further, astronomers studying a small number of these planets have discovered many earth twins. So, I feel life is abundant in our galaxy.

But, a get together on other planets is not an easy thing to do. It would take man 6,000 years to reach our closest star, Proxima Centauri, which means, it just won't be getting done, as best we know.

If beings from other planets or other dimensions know how to utilize so-called short cuts, then it may be possible for us to host these guests that visit our planet. 

so do i take it you feel aliens have not come to earth yet? if so then you've change your tune mate!!

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4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

so do i take it you feel aliens have not come to earth yet? if so then you've change your tune mate!!

Firstly, I don't want to include any belief that I have to prove, but of course, I feel that ^aliens^  is a possibility, but so is interdimensional.

So for this quick text on intelligent life within the galaxy or universe, I am better of going with that which is sustainable. Otherwise, I'd have to debate myself lol

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8 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Firstly, I don't want to include any belief that I have to prove, but of course, I feel that ^aliens^  is a possibility, but so is interdimensional.

So for this quick text on intelligent life within the galaxy or universe, I am better of going with that which is sustainable. Otherwise, I'd have to debate myself lol

so after all the years you & I have been debating this subject you now feel it's not aliens because logically it's highly unlikely?

Now you're going for the interdimensional EDH approach?? Really?? Am a I part of the reason why you've changed your tune over the years?

If so then thanks, that's why I'm here... Now for the EDH- back to square one then!? Oh joy

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I couldn't get through the first 10 minutes. I thought they were going to kill the physicist and I didn't want to see that.

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The fact that our Solar System is 4.5 billion years old is located in a Universe that is approximately 13.7 billion years make our species and Solar System young based upon the Universes age. Now what seems amazing is that the oldest fossils of life forms on Earth are approximately 3.8 billion years old, which means that it only took approximately 700 million years for the first life forms to occur. When you consider that there is approximately 9 billion years difference in age between Universal Creation and the Creation of our Solar System’s. And that life on Earth occurred in only 700 million years after our planet’s creation it becomes hypothetically plausible that life could have occurred on other planets in our Universe approximately 6 to 7 billion years ago.

There are two schools of thought on how plentiful life is in our universe and they are the famous Fermi Paradox” and the Drake Equation. The Fermi Paradox” basically states that the number of planets that are similar to Earth are very rare, thus when it comes to life in the universe there very few species that have evolved in its vast expanse. Then we have the Drake equation which basically states that our universe is literally teaming with life. However, there is a major problem with the mathematical equations used in both of those processes, the information needed to make them accurate isn’t available so neither is an accurate depiction of our universe. So, the way I choose to look at this issue is based upon the current size of universe, age of our universe, and i break down what we call life into 4 categories.

The 4 categories break down very simply, intelligent life, non-intelligent life, carbon based life and non-carbon based life. Hypothetically, all life we encounter will be carbon based life, however other possibilities exist such a combination of carbon based and silicon or other materials. Last I am not convinced that Earth has ever been visited by extraterrestrial intelligent life, and here I stress intelligent. Because, theoretically non-intelligent extraterrestrial life has been visiting Earth from the time our planet was first formed. These life forms could very easily arrive on Meteorites, Asteroids, or Comet debris. These cosmic hitchhikers would be microscopic bacteria and possibly even viruses, the possibilities are endless.

I believe the main reason we have never been visited by an intelligent extraterrestrial species is because they most likely don’t even know we exist. I do however, believe that there are space traveling extraterrestrial species, and most like they are doing what we are doing now exploration. So, with that said I believe it’s hypothetically possible that visitation could occur anytime and if they choose too, they will not hide the fact they here.:devil:

JIMHO

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Admittedly I just skimmed the article, but I couldn't help being a little bemused .. what is the relevance of the 3-Body Problem...?  I'm guessing that is maybe a wordplay on some aspect of the TV series being promoted?

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57 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Admittedly I just skimmed the article, but I couldn't help being a little bemused .. what is the relevance of the 3-Body Problem...?  I'm guessing that is maybe a wordplay on some aspect of the TV series being promoted?

Not seen the TV series (or read the books) but as I understand it, the 3 Body Problem refers to a planet that (somehow) orbits a triple star system.  As the 3 stars align in different ways, they affect the planet causing irregular mass extinction events, knocking the humanoid dominant life on the planet back to the stone age.   The problem is how to predict the movement of the stars so that such events can be planned for and avoided.   The solution the inhabitants came up with was to migrate to Earth ....  

I guess in more general, real world terms, it means that for life to advance to high technology, it needs to be on a planet with a stable orbit.   Which may be quite rare.   If Earth didn't have an oversized moon, caused by a freak collision event in the early days of the solar system, would our orbit (and axial tilt etc) have been stable enough for advanced life to evolve?   

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7 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

 what is the relevance of the 3-Body Problem...?  I'm guessing that is maybe a wordplay on some aspect of the TV series being promoted?

Its really good. You should check it out 🙂

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"The interesting thing is that the dark forest theory is almost certainly wrong. Or at least, it is wrong in our universe. It sets up a scenario in which there is a Darwinian process of natural selection, a competition for survival. Charles Darwin's account of competition for survival is evidence-based. By contrast, we have absolutely no evidence about alien behaviour, or about competition within or between other civilisations. This makes for entertaining guesswork rather than good science, even if we accept the idea that natural selection could operate at group level, at the level of civilisations."

 

Eh, no.  This is like saying Bart Simpson adds 2 to 2 and arrives at 4, but because the Simpsons are fictional characters in a fictional universe, 2 plus 2 cannot equal four in reality.  What evidence (something, not the absence of something) is there that the "dark forest theory" is "almost certainly wrong" in reality?

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Alien Worlds - TV Programs (2020)

Applying the laws of life on Earth to rest of the galaxy, this series blends science facts and fiction to imagine alien life on other planets.

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13464340/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_alien%20worlds

 

 

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18 hours ago, GlitterRose said:

I couldn't get through the first 10 minutes. I thought they were going to kill the physicist and I didn't want to see that.

Great series. I watched it last weekend. 

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20 hours ago, Dejarma said:

so after all the years you & I have been debating this subject you now feel it's not aliens because logically it's highly unlikely?

Now you're going for the interdimensional EDH approach?? Really?? Am a I part of the reason why you've changed your tune over the years?

If so then thanks, that's why I'm here... Now for the EDH- back to square one then!? Oh joy

lol you, sir, are hopeless

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The 3 body problem was very good, I enjoyed watching it and will have to read the books.

Non spoiler synopsis, it’s about the dangers of making our position in the universe known.  In this case an advanced alien race that orbits 3 stars and is periodically stunted in its growth as a civilisation for thousands of years.  When they are contacted by the less advanced humans, but observe the stability and rapid advancement of humanity they…

Wont spoil it any more.  It’s a very thought provoking series, but also very specific in its scenario.  What I will say is, the whole thing is essentially an exploration of paranoia.

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1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

lol you, sir, are hopeless

maybe- one can only do one's best

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On 4/6/2024 at 5:25 PM, Hazzard said:

Its really good. You should check it out 🙂

I have it saved as one to watch- so you would recommend it then Hazz?

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Posted (edited)

I read the books.  They're alright, but hardly paint a rosy picture of humanity.  I guess this is what happens when you grow up in a Communist country.

Edited by Alchopwn
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On 4/5/2024 at 9:17 PM, Dejarma said:

The reason IMO no one 'has come to call' yet is because we're all probably at roughly the same level of tech?

Because if there is other life it would have the same daunting task to call on us we would have to call on it.

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On 4/5/2024 at 10:18 PM, Dejarma said:

so after all the years you & I have been debating this subject you now feel it's not aliens because logically it's highly unlikely?

Now you're going for the interdimensional EDH approach?? Really?? Am a I part of the reason why you've changed your tune over the years?

If so then thanks, that's why I'm here... Now for the EDH- back to square one then!? Oh joy

It's not that odd, I saw a couple known ( some ) UFO=aliens investigator have the epiphany that aliens arent here, haven't been and might never be,  so couple examples one made the jump to UFO are edh the other combined UFOs with ahem. Bigfoot

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On 4/6/2024 at 8:35 PM, Cho Jinn said:

"The interesting thing is that the dark forest theory is almost certainly wrong. Or at least, it is wrong in our universe. It sets up a scenario in which there is a Darwinian process of natural selection, a competition for survival. Charles Darwin's account of competition for survival is evidence-based. By contrast, we have absolutely no evidence about alien behaviour, or about competition within or between other civilisations. This makes for entertaining guesswork rather than good science, even if we accept the idea that natural selection could operate at group level, at the level of civilisations."

If organisms exist on extrasolar planets they will be subject to natural selection and possibly sexual selection if gonochoric dimorphism has occurred. It is observed that sexual reproduction or genetic recombination confers fitness onto organisms in our environment so if complex life-forms exist they will be predatory and would probably supplant humanity if both species came into close proximity. Given the vast distances this is unlikely. 

As for 'civilisation', it is a specific human notion not reflected in any other species so unlikely to exist anywhere else in the universe. 

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14 minutes ago, man with breasts said:

...

As for 'civilisation', it is a specific human notion not reflected in any other species so unlikely to exist anywhere else in the universe. 

Is it?

ants, bees, termites, naked mole rats, rats in general maybe even.... just of the top of my head.

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Just now, MrsGently said:

Is it?

ants, bees, termites, naked mole rats, rats in general maybe even.... just of the top of my head.

Civilisation is culture. Nonhuman species have no capacity or no use for it. Eusocial insect behaviour is not civilisation. 

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