Westall UFO witnesses are still seeking answers more than 58 years on

[Alchopwn]

11 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

The link earlier in the thread reported that HIBAL balloons ended up in Queensland and even New Zealand.  East Melbourne isn't a stretch.

Having looked into it a bit more, I find the problem with the Westall sightings is that HIBAL balloons would crash land and need recovery. They also appeared jury rigged with visible duck tape on them. The Westall UFOs landed and took off again, which isn't in keeping with HIBAL balloons.  They literally can't do that.  Now if they improved the design to something more like a dirigible with a rigid structure, they would have needed some means of external control surfaces and propulsion like jets, propellers and fins.  Also, were HIBALs launched in groups?  The Westall UFOs had a rigid surface, but none of the other things.  I also can't imagine people being so freaked out by a balloon, regardless of how big it was.  It is pretty obvious that they aren't rigid for a start. 

It is a damn good guess however Golden Duck, and probably the most plausible mundane answer I've heard for the Westall incident.  I am only skeptical because it doesn't fit all the description points the witnesses offered.  If eyewitness evidence is given credence in our court system, then we need to recognize its value.

Edited April 16 by Alchopwn

[ChrLzs]

15 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Having looked into it a bit more

Hmm.

15 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I find the problem with the Westall sightings is that HIBAL balloons would crash land and need recovery.

You'll note if you read carefully from your own supplied link, that the term 'crashing to the ground' was a typical media exaggeration.  Note also the huge distances that some of these balloons went before finally "coming to rest".  What does that tell you about the very slow leakage and descent rates for many of these balloons?

-Sidenote- Helium balloons are VERY fragile and tend to fail in days rather than weeks, and also may have known leakage rate determined by the 'fabric' it was made of.  So they often slowly descended, whether or not the mission was designed to do that.  While the operators did have the option to 'cut down' the payload, it appears for the majority of Hibal missions that did not happen.  Some of the missions had small parachute systems to slow the fall of the released equipment, but judging from what records exists, most often they simply tracked it as best they could until the balloon and equipment came to rest.  Gently and slowly.

As a large helium balloon descends, it will spend quite a bit of time at or near neutral bouyancy, and thus it will be affect by local winds and up-/down-drafts.  In other words, they will often NOT 'crash down', they will often bounce up and down a few times, and also be dragged along by wind gusts.  This is part of the design philosophy.  Given that sometimes those little recovery chutes failed, there was the admittedly unlikely risk that if they cut the equipment free it could hit something or somebody.  They knew the prevailing winds, had an aircraft and other systems for tracking and also got reports of sightings, so finding them wasn't all that big a deal.

15 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

They also appeared jury rigged with visible duck tape on them. The Westall UFOs landed and took off again, which isn't in keeping with HIBAL balloons.  They literally can't do that.

False - they 'literally' (?) obviously can and will do that.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/16/2024 at 3:43 AM, Alchopwn said:

Having looked into it a bit more, I find the problem with the Westall sightings is that HIBAL balloons would crash land and need recovery. They also appeared jury rigged with visible duck tape on them. The Westall UFOs landed and took off again, which isn't in keeping with HIBAL balloons.  They literally can't do that.  Now if they improved the design to something more like a dirigible with a rigid structure, they would have needed some means of external control surfaces and propulsion like jets, propellers and fins.  Also, were HIBALs launched in groups?  The Westall UFOs had a rigid surface, but none of the other things.  I also can't imagine people being so freaked out by a balloon, regardless of how big it was.  It is pretty obvious that they aren't rigid for a start. 

It is a damn good guess however Golden Duck, and probably the most plausible mundane answer I've heard for the Westall incident.  I am only skeptical because it doesn't fit all the description points the witnesses offered.  If eyewitness evidence is given credence in our court system, then we need to recognize its value.

You're on the right track, Al. 

hibal balloon launch schedule - Search (bing.com)

HIBAL (High Altitude Balloon), a fascinating project from over 60 years ago, was a joint effort between Australia and the United States. Its purpose? To keep tabs on weapons developments in other countries, not by flying over them, but by testing the air at extremely high altitudes. Imagine sticking your nose out of the top window of your house to catch a whiff of what the people three doors down were cooking—it was a bit like that! The Americans were particularly interested in the French nuclear testing happening in the Pacific. They aimed to detect trace elements in the air, which could reveal whether the tests involved hydrogen bombs or atom bombs. The HIBAL balloons, massive structures reaching up to 100 meters in diameter, carried a payload ...

-------

I'm pretty sure the teachers could have figured out what that was - that and the fact it has a trailing payload hanging off of it ya, know? teachers are not totally daft. 

And no, they don't fly 5 at a time.   And there were none that landed near the school. And as to whether or not they can take off again after they landed,,,,

"Retrieving the payload after the balloons crashed to earth was another challenge. The recovery crew had to track the balloons from an aircraft and guide the ground crew to collect the payload. Sometimes, the payload would be dragged by its parachute faster than they could drive out to reach it."

 

Ahhhh, no. It does not take off again once it has landed, and the payload taken. I saw a complete schedule of take-off and landings for the whole project. I'll see if I can find it.

[ChrLzs]

On 4/20/2024 at 11:21 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

You're on the right track, Al. 

You aren't, Earl.  I don't have the time right now nor motivation to correct all the glaring errors in that, both in terms of ridiculously subjective and completely unsupported claims, and parroted media bull****.  This was all addressed in my post above, and yet here we have eot doing a Skyeagle...

Is anyone else buying this crap about balloons always crash landing, and that they never bounce?  Or that all this anecdotal 'data', NONE of which was formally gathered or properly transcribed, means anything other than people (esp. kids) want to be part of the crowd, or make **** up, or are gullible..?

Let me know.

[ChrLzs]

 

[the13bats]

3 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

You aren't, Earl.  I don't have the time right now nor motivation to correct all the glaring errors in that, both in terms of ridiculously subjective and completely unsupported claims, and parroted media bull****.  This was all addressed in my post above, and yet here we have eot doing a Skyeagle...

Is anyone else buying this crap about balloons always crash landing, and that they never bounce?  Or that all this anecdotal 'data', NONE of which was formally gathered or properly transcribed, means anything other than people (esp. kids) want to be part of the crowd, or make **** up, or are gullible..?

Let me know.

Back mid 70s in Orlando me and my friends saw a weather "type" balloon descending, we would see these type balloons for sale in comic books it was round off white about sit to eight foot,

It would hit a roof go up more come down hit some like a tree almost get stuck but didn't and it didn't pop, we chased it at least an hour at least a mile it hit all kinds of things and would head back up.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

You aren't, Earl.  I don't have the time right now nor motivation to correct all the glaring errors in that, both in terms of ridiculously subjective and completely unsupported claims, and parroted media bull****.  This was all addressed in my post above, and yet here we have eot doing a Skyeagle...

Is anyone else buying this crap about balloons always crash landing, and that they never bounce?  Or that all this anecdotal 'data', NONE of which was formally gathered or properly transcribed, means anything other than people (esp. kids) want to be part of the crowd, or make **** up, or are gullible..?

Let me know.

oh, wait!!

So you are admitting that the first object to come down from the sky was a balloon?? Make it official, now.

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Enough with the bickering and personal attacks please folks.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:19 PM, ChrLzs said:

You aren't, Earl.  I don't have the time right now nor motivation to correct all the glaring errors in that, both in terms of ridiculously subjective and completely unsupported claims

Well, have you gotten the time and motivation for you to write me up - for amongst other things... not supporting claims?

- sez the poster that claimed 5 100-meter diameter HIBAL ballons landed together and took off together, of their own volition.... WITHOUT SUPPORT.

And are you also saying that if you  dream up a hypothetical scenario that you can then claim that it is reality?? ah huhhh

[Trelane]

3 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, have you gotten the time and motivation for you to write me up - for amongst other things... not supporting claims?

- sez the poster that claimed 5 100-meter diameter HIBAL ballons landed together and took off together, of their own volition.... WITHOUT SUPPORT.

 

...Allegedly 

[Dejarma]

20 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, have you gotten the time and motivation for you to write me up - for amongst other things... not supporting claims?

- sez the poster that claimed 5 100-meter diameter HIBAL ballons landed together and took off together, of their own volition.... WITHOUT SUPPORT.

And are you also saying that if you  dream up a hypothetical scenario that you can then claim that it is reality?? ah huhhh

have aliens visited this planet in the past or are indeed here now? YES or NO?

It's very simple:

If you feel yes then prove it! Of course you can't prove it- so now what? Are you not bored with all this after 90 years of fek all facts?  Boring isn't it zzzzzzz?

Edited April 27 by Dejarma

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

have aliens visited this planet in the past or are indeed here now? YES or NO?

It's very simple:

If you feel yes then prove it! Of course you can't prove it- so now what? Are you not bored with all this after 90 years of fek all facts?  Boring isn't it zzzzzzz?

A visit to the UM UFO forum just wouldn't feel complete without a blasting from good old master-blaster, Dejarma. How are ya, bud?

#1 you left off "I don't know" - and only wish I could answer that for you and all
#2 It can't possibly be as boring as what a true sceptic goes through in here, where everything is fake lol. Yet you keep coming back for more. 

How crazy is that? 

 

[Dejarma]

10 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yet you keep coming back for more. 

more what?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

more what?

According to you, more innanity.

You know there's nothing  in here for you, so why do you keep coming back in? 

You sceptics are strange beings. 

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

According to you, more innanity.

You know there's nothing  in here for you, so why do you keep coming back in? 

You sceptics are strange beings. 

I'm seeking the truth-  I want to know= has other life visited this planet in the past or  is it indeed here now!?.
Are you attempting to convince an obvious skeptic like me that aliens are here? Why, what's the point?... You know it's futile & yet here you are still trying.
So really the question should be asked of you= why (if you know or are convinced enough) are you here?? What is the point of 'you' typing in here?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

I'm seeking the truth-  I want to know= has other life visited this planet in the past or  is it indeed here now!?.
Are you attempting to convince an obvious skeptic like me that aliens are here? Why, what's the point?... You know it's futile & yet here you are still trying.
So really the question should be asked of you= why (if you know or are convinced enough) are you here?? What is the point of 'you' typing in here?

Dejarma, the forum is called: Extraterrestrial Life and The UFO Phenomenon for a reason. Ok? That's why I come in here.

Why do you come in here, to cast aspersions...? Jeeesh. 

 

[Dejarma]

26 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Dejarma, the forum is called: Extraterrestrial Life and The UFO Phenomenon for a reason. Ok? That's why I come in here.

Why do you come in here, to cast aspersions...? Jeeesh. 

 

you've no idea what i'm talking about, do ya!!? what i said doesn't compute to you, does it!?  i'll leave you to it 

[Golden Duck]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:53 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, have you gotten the time and motivation for you to write me up - for amongst other things... not supporting claims?

- sez the poster that claimed 5 100-meter diameter HIBAL ballons landed together and took off together, of their own volition.... WITHOUT SUPPORT.

And are you also saying that if you  dream up a hypothetical scenario that you can then claim that it is reality?? ah huhhh

I see you quoted the links I provided.  You're welcome.  But, you misinterpreted the effort and urgency that involved in recovering HIBAL balloons. You also ignored how the project was related the politics of the time.

It's OK Earl.  Can't be expected to understand this coubtry and its history.  No doubt the parodied lyric "The Very Model of a Commonwealth Prime Minister" would sail over your.  But that is OK.  You have not been immersed in ot as thoughs that live here.  Your limited knowledge of the research - indeed, the witness statements - is not held against you.  We find these misconceptions endearing.

We love our drop bears.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I see you quoted the links I provided.  You're welcome.  But, you misinterpreted the effort and urgency that involved in recovering HIBAL balloons. You also ignored how the project was related the politics of the time.

Politics of the time...? How about if we can get someone to declare that the object was a HIBAL balloon? Jeeeesh

 

4 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

It's OK Earl.  Can't be expected to understand this coubtry and its history.  No doubt the parodied lyric "The Very Model of a Commonwealth Prime Minister" would sail over your.  But that is OK.  You have not been immersed in ot as thoughs that live here.  Your limited knowledge of the research - indeed, the witness statements - is not held against you.  We find these misconceptions endearing.

We love our drop bears.

 

GD, all we need to know are the pertinent facts, that's all. As in - were those five objects that took off together HIBAL balloons?? Something like that,

[Golden Duck]

2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Politics of the time...? How about if we can get someone to declare that the object was a HIBAL balloon? Jeeeesh

 

 

GD, all we need to know are the pertinent facts, that's all. As in - were those five objects that took off together HIBAL balloons?? Something like that,

Do you mean like this answer?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/westall-ufo-incident-was-actually-government-radiation-testing-reports-reveal/news-story/b6c6056bf60f378809f19327eb1c23fc

The published drawing from a witness looks like a deformed; ie, a balloon.  You ignore the witness that don't enable you fantasies.

As an interesting footnote of the history of the time those that live here recognise it for what it is. 

You have had it spelled out to you but won't listen.

Watch out for Drop Bears.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Do you mean like this answer?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/westall-ufo-incident-was-actually-government-radiation-testing-reports-reveal/news-story/b6c6056bf60f378809f19327eb1c23fc

The published drawing from a witness looks like a deformed; ie, a balloon.  You ignore the witness that don't enable you fantasies.

As an interesting footnote of the history of the time those that live here recognise it for what it is. 

You have had it spelled out to you but won't listen.

Watch out for Drop Bears.

 

Westall ‘UFO’ incident was actually government radiation testing, reports reveal
DECADES after more than 200 people believed they witnessed a UFO landing in Clayton, government documents reveal what really happened and why silence surrounded the incident.
------

Good! You finally were blunt enough. HIBAL 292 they say is the culprit. that ain't all they say...
"But despite government archival records showing the results of numerous HIBAL test flights, the paperwork for the launches scheduled for the day before Westall appear to have been lost or destroyed."

LOL, gee, I wonder how they got lost... 

[Golden Duck]

15 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

Westall ‘UFO’ incident was actually government radiation testing, reports reveal
DECADES after more than 200 people believed they witnessed a UFO landing in Clayton, government documents reveal what really happened and why silence surrounded the incident.
------

Good! You finally were blunt enough. HIBAL 292 they say is the culprit. that ain't all they say...
"But despite government archival records showing the results of numerous HIBAL test flights, the paperwork for the launches scheduled for the day before Westall appear to have been lost or destroyed."

LOL, gee, I wonder how they got lost... 

I have been suggesting that HIBAL was a plausible answer pages now.  You even replied  to saying it was  impossible, without explaining why.  However, you have been given insight by those workers that were tasked with recovering the balloons, and you have been given archival media coverage.

Now, you are questioning the cover-up when it has already been explained to you.  If you had been respectful of the more than reasonable effort and opportunity given to you would not be unaware of how Diamond Jim fits into the whole story.

Watch out for Drop Bears.

Edited April 28 by Golden Duck

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:32 PM, Golden Duck said:

I have been suggesting that HIBAL was a plausible answer pages now.  You even replied  to saying it was  impossible, without explaining why.  However, you have been given insight by those workers that were tasked with recovering the balloons, and you have been given archival media coverage.

Now, you are questioning the cover-up when it has already been explained to you.  If you had been respectful of the more than reasonable effort and opportunity given to you would not be unaware of how Diamond Jim fits into the whole story.

Watch out for Drop Bears.

GD, I asked MANY times a most basic question about this incident, and NOBODY would give a straight-up answer. Fact jack

We all know what the witnesses said, and I wanted to know what you debunkers say happened. Couldn't get it done.

[Golden Duck]

4 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

GD, I asked MANY times a most basic question about this incident, and NOBODY would give a straight-up answer. Fact jack

We all know what the witnesses said, and I wanted to know what you debunkers say happened. Couldn't get it done.

HIBAL as a plausible answer has been presented for pages now. To purport otherwise is simply untrue.

We do indeed know what the witnesses say.  Wr even have a drawing from archives - not YouTube. 

You have been given everything to understand.

You're welcome. 

And watch out for drop bears

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

So eyewitness say the object was 10" to 15" in diameter, but you believe it was 100 meters in diameter, which is 328 feet. Hmmm, quite a discrepancy. 

The eyewitness did notice a small dome on top of the object that descended down, but somehow missed the 50 meter long flight train hanging off the bottom of the object.

And finally, if a ballon *did* come down, where is it??

And please don't tell me that you actually believe that 5 HIBAL balloons landed and took off again, lol the stuff you people force yourself to profess.