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Westall UFO witnesses are still seeking answers more than 58 years on


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Yes of course, let's re-think the accounts of children from over 50 years ago and believe that there was extraterrestrial craft whizzing about. That tracks.

Still no scientific evidence of life existing outside of Earth but we got all kinds of craft here, there and everywhere.  Oh brother.🙄

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29 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Yes of course, let's re-think the accounts of children from over 50 years ago and believe that there was extraterrestrial craft whizzing about. That tracks.

Still no scientific evidence of life existing outside of Earth but we got all kinds of craft here, there and everywhere.  Oh brother.🙄

It's not even the accounts from children.

It's the memories of 70 year olds from an incident that occured almost 60 years ago.

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3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

It's not even the accounts from children.

It's the memories of 70 year olds from an incident that occured almost 60 years ago.

Right, but how many times have you seen an older person make claims of a flawless memory of childhood events.

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On 6/17/2024 at 11:14 AM, Trelane said:

I would disappear for a few weeks too if I responded and behaved like that too. Unfortunately those posts still exist.

That's just it time and again he's done that and his response is to call bats a liar, yawn.
The guy never seems to gets utterly humiliated with himself.

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3 hours ago, Trelane said:

Yes of course, let's re-think the accounts of children from over 50 years ago and believe that there was extraterrestrial craft whizzing about. That tracks.

Still no scientific evidence of life existing outside of Earth but we got all kinds of craft here, there and everywhere.  Oh brother.🙄

It’s no more crazy than to believe those balloons landed and took off again. In fact thinking about the two different scenarios, we only know for a fact one is impossible. 

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3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Nope.  Not true. 

So the balloons landed and then flew off again?

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3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

And you avoided the simple task of repeating the question.

You know damn well what the question was. Regardless of how far out of our way you went to avoid answering it. 

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8 hours ago, Matt Vinyl said:

The fact that YOU can't answer your own question does not automatically mean Al3Inz...

Of course not. But let’s not pretend he is the only one who can’t answer the question. No one here has. And without an answer it makes the balloon theory BS. 

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3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

It's not even the accounts from children.

It's the memories of 70 year olds from an incident that occured almost 60 years ago.

Not true. I’ve heard this story since I was a kid. They have been telling this story for many decades. 
 

It’s not like they just started telling the story. Witness testimony was told and recorded at the time of the event. 

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

You know damn well what the question was. Regardless of how far out of our way you went to avoid answering it. 

And you, apparently, have no logical thought processes whatsoever.

Here, let me explain something..  YOU are posting on a PUBLIC FORUM..  The fact that you (by some miracle) know what the hell you are talking about, does not mean that any other visitor to this thread who innocently reads your angry demand, does NOT.  And you, arrogant as you are, think that visitor / newbie should browse back over 9+ pages to work it out?  Take a long hard look at yourself, pm.

I know that you are having an internal dialogue that only involves your tunnelled vision of whoever it is you hate the most.  But try to think a little outside the box.  Try to remember where you are.  Try to be polite.  Anyway, you had your chance to re-ask the question and didn't, so shove it where the sun don't shine.  Given your attitude, it was almost certainly addressed before, but you don't accept logic.  You certainly don't deserve any answers, or respect.

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2 hours ago, the13bats said:

Right, but how many times have you seen an older person make claims of a flawless memory of childhood events.

Yet in another forum they might be considered too old for public office.

😇

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2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Yet in another forum they might be considered too old for public office.

😇

I know you might have been referring to the other one.. :)  but I loved the orange one's recent effort where he boasted of those perfect memory tests he did (again???!!!) ... but forgot his doctor's name.  Oops.

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2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

So the balloons landed and then flew off again?

Yeah disregard the reality thst gusts of winds do occur. And officers from the Department of Supply had to chase these balloons as they were dragging their payload. 

Geesh, this has been explained "at least ten times."  The question has well and truly been answered.

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They are both too old and both too screwed up each in their own ways.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

You know damn well what the question was. Regardless of how far out of our way you went to avoid answering it. 

I don't claim to read your mind, especially when your posts are as vague as they are.

If you think you know what I know then you must know what I would answer to this mysterious question that is too difficult to even repeat. 

So why whinge?

Edited by Golden Duck
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Just now, Golden Duck said:

Yeah disregard the reality thst gusts of winds do occur. And officers from the Department of Supply had to chase these balloons as they were dragging their payload. 

Geesh, this has been explained "at least ten times."  The question has well and truly been answered.

Years back in old stock at the RC hobby store I worked at part time I found two old UFO balloons,

This same thing,

s-l960.webp

It's basically a huge trash bag you tie both ends and sun heat on the right day gets the air inside hot enough to life them, well of course I just had to try it and it would go pretty high then drop them rise and I guess if a person wanted to really grasp it looked controlled but wasn't, of course an alien craft is far far more likely than a balloon.

 

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2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Not true. I’ve heard this story since I was a kid. They have been telling this story for many decades. 
 

It’s not like they just started telling the story. Witness testimony was told and recorded at the time of the event. 

Where did you hear it? Even if did hear it as a kid, you heard it decades after the incident.  But, hey the State and National Libraries have the records available we could refer to them.  Those contemporary reports that have been provided in this thread, confirm the single object was a spheroid. 

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6 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I don't claim to read your mind, especially when your posts are as vague as they are.

If you think you know what I know then you must know what I would answer to this mysterious question that is too difficult to even repeat. 

So why whinge?

The guy let's stuff get to him, I had to put him on ignore he was getting far too upset when I would simply ask for supporting evidence I would get some raving lecture what an evil skeptic I am.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Be back in about 8 hours, life permitting.

As promised...  Here is a little story about false memories.  Human perception is remarkable, but it also has severe limitations.  In particular, all of us will exaggerate and vary our memories, or even have false ones.  Just like Earl proved to us here, on this thread:

To be very specific, let's go through Earl's first post on that thread, with my comments following each ERROR in bold.

Quote

Uri Geller, the spoon bender, was all the rage back in the day.   But it all came to a crashing halt on a tv show I watched, The Tonight Show w/ Johnny Carson.
TRUE

At some point in the show, Uri was brought out and introduced to the audience, who were clearly pro-Uri.
I get a strong impression that the audience were ambivalent.  There was no initial applause for him, and in fact they mostly showed either disinterest or disdain for the complete lack of success and all the lame excuses.  I don't think they were pro-uri at all.

Uri sat and chatted, which is custom.
TRUE

Then, Uri brought out the two spoons that he was to use in the spoon bending demonstration.
FALSE.  Geller did NOT bring out any spoons.  There were 3 spoons and one fork on the table already and Uri later pointed out one he wanted to try to bend, but sadly we don't get to see the spoon BEFORE he shows off a very slight bend

The two spoons that Geller brought were confiscated by Johnny Carson
FALSE.  Carson did not confiscate anything, and allowed Geller to try any tricks he wanted on the stuff that was on the table.  Geller obviously had realised he was trapped, and even if he had anything on him, he would look an even worse fool if he would only use his own stuff.

.. and replaced with two spoons that Carson brought with him
FALSE.  As above, 3 spoons were already on the table.

.. and Carson told Geller that these were the two spoons he could use in the demo.
FALSE.  At no time did Carson tell Geller what he could or could not do - there were no constraints put on Geller - he didn't need to, it was clear that Geller had nowhere to hide and he would just be giving excuses.

You should have seen the horrified look on Geller's face!
? I didn't notice any significant facial expressions. There was no real 'moment', as earl "recalls".  Geller knew he was done for as soon as he walked out and saw the table covered in playthings..

Eventually, when Geller realized that he was not going to get his way, he left the stage, reputation smashed into pieces.
TRUEISH. 

I invite readers to examine the video, although it is a bit long-winded.  If you disagree with my impressions and conclusions, can you please post video timings for anything I got wrong.  There is no other recorded instance of Geller being on the Carson show - feel free to search!  And note that this is not about Geller and whether he is a fraud (yes, he is) - it is just to show that memories are NOT to be trusted, especially your own!

To summarise, clearly Earl.Of.Trumps has memories that are at best in significant error, and at worse horribly wrong and completely false.  So far, instead of just realising the truth and apologising, Earl went into defense mode, firstly claiming that it must have been another interview, but there is no other recorded instance of Geller being on the Carson show.  Then he keeps trying other excuses, even trying to massage AI responses to try to defend his falsehoods.  It's quite sad, and I give credit for 13bats for being reasonable and polite when he first pointed out Earl's errors - Earl's retorts and insults were completely uncalled for.

All he had to do to avoid this was to watch the video and then say "Sorry, I must have misremembered".  Now, because he didn't have the cojones to admit he was wrong, he is the poster boy for why memories can't be trusted.  Thanks, Earl.  You serve a purpose.

Edited by ChrLzs
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8 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

And you, apparently, have no logical thought processes whatsoever.

Don’t break your leg falling off your high horse. 

8 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Here, let me explain something..  YOU are posting on a PUBLIC FORUM..  The fact that you (by some miracle) know what the hell you are talking about, does not mean that any other visitor to this thread who innocently reads your angry demand, does NOT.  And you, arrogant as you are, think that visitor / newbie should browse back over 9+ pages to work it out?  Take a long hard look at yourself, pm.

This has nothing to do with new members. It has to do with a direct question you all were asked several times within the last two pages. You avoided it then and are avoiding it now. 

8 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I know that you are having an internal dialogue that only involves your tunnelled vision of whoever it is you hate the most.  But try to think a little outside the box. 
 

Now I see why you have such a problem with the idea people can remember things accurately. YOU obviously can’t. 

8 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Try to remember where you are.  Try to be polite.  Anyway, you had your chance to re-ask the question and didn't, so shove it where the sun don't shine.  Given your attitude, it was almost certainly addressed before, but you don't accept logic.  You certainly don't deserve any answers, or respect.

You telling anyone to be polite is hilarious. And I neither want or care about your respect. You all know what the question is. And it’s down right pathetic you are pretending you don’t. Well really it’s more funny than anything. As I originally stated. 

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7 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Yeah disregard the reality thst gusts of winds do occur. And officers from the Department of Supply had to chase these balloons as they were dragging their payload. 

Geesh, this has been explained "at least ten times."  The question has well and truly been answered.

So it’s your opinion that these balloons, after landing, were taken back up in the air by a gust of wind? lol ok

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30 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

So it’s your opinion that these balloons, after landing, were taken back up in the air by a gust of wind? lol ok

Balloons?  Why the use of the plural?

Your accuracy is just compelling.  Then to underline it with such an  erudite and eloquent thesis of "lol ok."

Quote

"Often the recovery crew were trying to get there, maybe the payload was being dragged by its parachute faster than they could drive out," Steven Thorn said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-09/hibal-australia-cold-war-history-us-secret-balloon-victoria/102057980

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/westall-ufo-incident-was-actually-government-radiation-testing-reports-reveal/news-story/b6c6056bf60f378809f19327eb1c23fc

What was the plan for landing?  Free the balloon from it's payload.

Quote

To end a flight, the parachute and its attached payload are cut free of the balloon by an explosive device fired by radio command. To avoid leaving the balloon floating derelict, a rip- cord — attached to the parachute — tears a specially constructed panel from the balloon which is destroyed and falls quickly.

https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/07/242/7242111.pdf

"lol ok" is shorthand that plans never go wrong, and manufacturing and engineering is always reliable, right P76?

image.png.8f6e26120c22c3cd509098ff745a5141.png

 

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44 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Don’t break your leg falling off your high horse. 

This has nothing to do with new members. It has to do with a direct question you all were asked several times within the last two pages. You avoided it then and are avoiding it now. 

Now I see why you have such a problem with the idea people can remember things accurately. YOU obviously can’t. 

You telling anyone to be polite is hilarious. And I neither want or care about your respect. You all know what the question is. And it’s down right pathetic you are pretending you don’t. Well really it’s more funny than anything. As I originally stated. 

If given the choice of:

A. Vomiting up an invective whinge; or,

B. Cutting and pasting a question you would like answered,

What would you choose? 

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49 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

So it’s your opinion that these balloons, after landing, were taken back up in the air by a gust of wind? lol ok

Smarm based upon lack of reading comprehension doesn't really deserve a reply, but here you go.

HERE's all the replies where I answered your silly question...  And remember, it was your choice to ask for it, and join the ranks of Earl and sky eagle as most credulous, and least truthful posters on this forum.  Note that there's even a video showing a balloon bounce, which is what they often do as they descend.  Balloons only 'fall' hard when they explode or have a major leak - you know, like what must have happened to your noggin.

Link1
You'll note if you read carefully from your own supplied link, that the term 'crashing to the ground' was a typical media exaggeration.  Note also the huge distances that some of these balloons went before finally "coming to rest".  What does that tell you about the very slow leakage and descent rates for many of these balloons?

-Sidenote- Helium balloons are VERY fragile and tend to fail in days rather than weeks, and also may have known leakage rate determined by the 'fabric' it was made of.  So they often slowly descended, whether or not the mission was designed to do that.  While the operators did have the option to 'cut down' the payload, it appears for the majority of Hibal missions that did not happen.  Some of the missions had small parachute systems to slow the fall of the released equipment, but judging from what records exists, most often they simply tracked it as best they could until the balloon and equipment came to rest.  Gently and slowly.

As a large helium balloon descends, it will spend quite a bit of time at or near neutral bouyancy, and thus it will be affect by local winds and up-/down-drafts.  In other words, they will often NOT 'crash down', they will often bounce up and down a few times, and also be dragged along by wind gusts.  This is part of the design philosophy.  Given that sometimes those little recovery chutes failed, there was the admittedly unlikely risk that if they cut the equipment free it could hit something or somebody.  They knew the prevailing winds, had an aircraft and other systems for tracking and also got reports of sightings, so finding them wasn't all that big a deal.


Link2
Is anyone else buying this crap about balloons always crash landing, and that they never bounce?  Or that all this anecdotal 'data', NONE of which was formally gathered or properly transcribed, means anything other than people (esp. kids) want to be part of the crowd, or make **** up, or are gullible..?

{Nobody responded}

Link3
A video for you.  BOUNCE {loud}.  youtu.be/C5VoMyVPqGk

 

And finally, as pointed out by the duck, anyone else note that preacherman has, naturally, adopted Earl's falsehood of 5 balloons.  Where TF did that come from?  I suspect Earl is, again, falsely 'remembering' a media report relating to 5 aircraft who participated in the HiBal search.  Ya couldn't make this **** up.. oh wait, yes they can.  It's hilarious to watch.  Unless you wanted to be a respected ufologist - look at the type of people who you'll be associating with..

Must be off, my high horse is waiting to gallop towards the next worthy case.  Or rather, any case whatsoever that contains something other than campfire stories for the gullible.

 

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1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

You'll note if you read carefully from your own supplied link

P76 didn't supply a link.  They rarely, if ever, do.

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