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Cosmic rays streamed through Earth's atmosphere 41,000 years ago


Waspie_Dwarf

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12 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

My idea:

Neanderthals were light skinned or had a tan. Their skin didn't protect them much from the sudden increase in UV-radiation. Hence: skin cancers.

The newcomers, our direct ancestors who came from Africa, had a dark skin and thus better protected against higher UV-radiation.

It would show signs on the bones and in the DNA. Then the cancer marker would show up on any descendants. So.....no..

 

16 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

How big was it then?

No real noticeable spikes according to Greenland ice cores.

Google this. It's on the ball. 

'Comment on "A Global Environmental Crisis 42,000 years Ago" '

Picin, Benazzi, Talamo +7 more

Science, vol. 374, no.6570

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24 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

My idea:

Neanderthals were light skinned or had a tan. Their skin didn't protect them much from the sudden increase in UV-radiation. Hence: skin cancers.

The newcomers, our direct ancestors who came from Africa, had a dark skin and thus better protected against higher UV-radiation.

Add from my sister...

Darker skin doesn't better protect you from skin cancer and the people in Africa would of suffered more because of the location.

Asians are resistant to skin cancer from the layer of yellow fat. Not because of more melanin.

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Eh, the Neanderthals made it through a bunch of excursions in 250 kyr. The Pringle Falls...timeframe..., Blake, Post Blake, anything I'm missing? Ah, right, Iceland Basin somewhere in there. Only to be laid low by the mighty Laschamps excursion. Over a long time frame that also includes the Mono Lake excursion (which at Mono Lake, might actually be Laschamps)..

But excursions are rapid.

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13 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Eh, the Neanderthals made it through a bunch of excursions in 250 kyr. The Pringle Falls...timeframe..., Blake, Post Blake, anything I'm missing? Ah, right, Iceland Basin somewhere in there. Only to be laid low by the mighty Laschamps excursion. Over a long time frame that also includes the Mono Lake excursion (which at Mono Lake, might actually be Laschamps)..

But excursions are rapid.

I think Mono Lake was the end part of the Laschamps. 

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13 hours ago, Piney said:

I think Mono Lake was the end part of the Laschamps. 

The so named Mono Lake excursion around 33 ka, or the excursion that is found near Mono Lake?

My considered opinion is that there are two separate magnetic events around 33 ka and around 41 ka. The latter is Laschamps. The former was (and still is) known as Mono Lake, but the date of the record there is suspect.

I think there are enough radiometric dates to argue for them as separate events. And they're seen in series in continuous marine cores (with "regular" behavior in between).

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On 4/22/2024 at 7:22 PM, Piney said:

It would show signs on the bones and in the DNA. Then the cancer marker would show up on any descendants. So.....no.

I don't think that is true:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33432678/

 

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On 4/22/2024 at 7:22 PM, Piney said:

Google this. It's on the ball. 

'Comment on "A Global Environmental Crisis 42,000 years Ago" '

Picin, Benazzi, Talamo +7 more

Science, vol. 374, no.6570

Ok.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abi8330

They are not convinced.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Piney said:

That has nothing to do with metastasis, which is what I was talking about. 

I know. But the secondary effected tissues did not survive for us to investigate after 41,000 years. Only bones.

Edited by Abramelin
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6 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I know. But the secondary effected tissues did not survive for us to investigate after 41,000 years. Only bones.

And DNA in the bones.

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11 minutes ago, Piney said:

And DNA in the bones.

If metastasis to for instance brain, lungs, liver, kidneys, gut killed the individual before it spread to the bones, you won't find any changed DNA in the skeletal remains.

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Just now, Abramelin said:

If metastasis to for instance brain, lungs, liver, kidneys, gut killed the individual before it spread to the bones, you won't find any changed DNA in the skeletal remains.

You don't understand. If you have any cancer it shows up in your and your childrens' DNA signature.

That's why the paper said "no DNA evidence". 

 

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

You don't understand. If you have any cancer it shows up in your and your childrens' DNA signature.

That's why the paper said "no DNA evidence". 

 

Apparently I don't understand.

If a person dies from melanoma cancers caused by UV-radiation, cancers that have spread to other tissues, but before they spread to the bones, then how can you know from DNA extracted from these bones that a person died from UV related melanoma?

And:

Genetic changes in melanoma tumor cells cannot be passed down from parents to children

https://www.curemelanoma.org/blog/article/how-genetics-and-family-history-contribute-to-melanoma-risk

 

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7 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Apparently I don't understand.

If a person dies from melanoma cancers caused by UV-radiation, cancers that have spread to other tissues, but before they spread to the bones, then how can you know from DNA extracted from these bones that a person died from UV related melanoma?

And:

 

You know everything from eye to hair color to what diseases you had from DNA in bones. Your DNA is a map of your whole body. Not just your bones. 

7 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Genetic changes in melanoma tumor cells cannot be passed down from parents to children

https://www.curemelanoma.org/blog/article/how-genetics-and-family-history-contribute-to-melanoma-risk

 

Genetic changes in skin cells. Not the marker that said they had it or the marker of increased risks because a parent had it.

The sun changing from a nice yellow to bright white and photodegrading everything is giving us more UV radiation than the Laschamps.

And I know you noticed the sun go max too being outdoors for several decades. 

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4 hours ago, Piney said:

You know everything from eye to hair color to what diseases you had from DNA in bones. Your DNA is a map of your whole body. Not just your bones. 

Genetic changes in skin cells. Not the marker that said they had it or the marker of increased risks because a parent had it.

The sun changing from a nice yellow to bright white and photodegrading everything is giving us more UV radiation than the Laschamps.

And I know you noticed the sun go max too being outdoors for several decades. 

Ok. I don't understand.

I'm not thàt stupid, but I suspect a language problem, or better, me not being able to formulate my question in proper English.

 

I understand that melanoma tumors can spread to other organs and tissues by means of blood vessals and lymphe channels/nodes.

But nòt that it can change the DNA in every tissue of thr body.

Not to pi$$ you off, Piney, but I want to ask the opinion of 2 other persons posting here:

@Sherapy

and

@cormac mac airt

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1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Ok. I don't understand.

I'm not thàt stupid, but I suspect a language problem, or better, me not being able to formulate my question in proper English.

 

I understand that melanoma tumors can spread to other organs and tissues by means of blood vessals and lymphe channels/nodes.

But nòt that it can change the DNA in every tissue of thr body.

Not to pi$$ you off, Piney, but I want to ask the opinion of 2 other persons posting here:

@Sherapy

and

@cormac mac airt

Oh your not. I was going to tag Cormac.

What I'm saying is if you have any form of cancer it shows up in your DNA code. 

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1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Ok. I don't understand.

I'm not thàt stupid, but I suspect a language problem, or better, me not being able to formulate my question in proper English.

 

I understand that melanoma tumors can spread to other organs and tissues by means of blood vessals and lymphe channels/nodes.

But nòt that it can change the DNA in every tissue of thr body.

Not to pi$$ you off, Piney, but I want to ask the opinion of 2 other persons posting here:

@Sherapy

and

@cormac mac airt

And also what I'm trying to say is the planet is currently getting more UV radiation from this solar maximum than from the Laschamps. 

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2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Ok. I don't understand.

I'm not thàt stupid, but I suspect a language problem, or better, me not being able to formulate my question in proper English.

 

I understand that melanoma tumors can spread to other organs and tissues by means of blood vessals and lymphe channels/nodes.

But nòt that it can change the DNA in every tissue of thr body.

Not to pi$$ you off, Piney, but I want to ask the opinion of 2 other persons posting here:

@Sherapy

and

@cormac mac airt

Melanoma cells can travel to distant parts of the body aka ( metastasis). 

Melanoma mostly affects the skin, it is possible for melanoma cells to enter the bloodstream or lymphatic vessels and spread to different organs like the lungs, liver, brain, or bones. According to the Dr. I work for he said melanoma cells do not change the DNA of every tissue in the body. The big concern with melanoma metastasis is the formation of secondary tumors in other organs, rather than altering the DNA of healthy tissues throughout the body.

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

Oh your not. I was going to tag Cormac.

What I'm saying is if you have any form of cancer it shows up in your DNA code. 

You are not wrong Piney, most cancers do show up in DNA  just an add too, not all types of cancer directly alter DNA some cancers result from factors such as viral infections, hormonal imbalances, or exposure to carcinogens that do not necessarily involve DNA mutation. FWIW

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

You are not wrong Piney, most cancers do show up in DNA  just an add too, not all types of cancer directly alter DNA some cancers result from factors such as viral infections, hormonal imbalances, or exposure to carcinogens that do not necessarily involve DNA mutation. FWIW

According to my stepmother, who's in a Cowgirl Hall of Fame for equine health, conditioning and cancer treatments those cancers involve inflammation but if you had them they still show up in a general DNA test because it still "breaks" the chain somewhere eventually. 

 

Edited by Piney
brain fart
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Piney said:

You know everything from eye to hair color to what diseases you had from DNA in bones. Your DNA is a map of your whole body. Not just your bones. 

Genetic changes in skin cells. Not the marker that said they had it or the marker of increased risks because a parent had it.

The sun changing from a nice yellow to bright white and photodegrading everything is giving us more UV radiation than the Laschamps.

And I know you noticed the sun go max too being outdoors for several decades. 

 Hmm, I think I’ve noticed that!  The sun has gotten Whiter and Brighter.  (which would match up with UV increase).?  …..   but Hotter??  too?    Heat is usually associated with Infra-Red? 

Edited by lightly
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5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Melanoma cells can travel to distant parts of the body aka ( metastasis). 

Melanoma mostly affects the skin, it is possible for melanoma cells to enter the bloodstream or lymphatic vessels and spread to different organs like the lungs, liver, brain, or bones. According to the Dr. I work for he said melanoma cells do not change the DNA of every tissue in the body. The big concern with melanoma metastasis is the formation of secondary tumors in other organs, rather than altering the DNA of healthy tissues throughout the body.

Thanks Sherapy.

Now my question: is it possible that when skeleton remains are found, you can't tell whether this person died from melanoma cancers by testing the remaining DNA?

Like when this person died before the cancers reached his or her bones?

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13 hours ago, Piney said:

And also what I'm trying to say is the planet is currently getting more UV radiation from this solar maximum than from the Laschamps. 

Talking possibilities here, even though UV radiation is higher today, the ozone layer was cited as being depleted during Laschamps. "The high energy cosmic rays from the galaxy and also enormous bursts of cosmic rays from solar flares were able to penetrate the upper atmosphere, charging the particles in the air and causing chemical changes that drove the loss of stratospheric ozone."

https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2021/02/earth-s-magnetic-field-broke-down-42-000-years-ago-and-caused-ma

Further, just my thoughts, most of our ancient DNA samples seem to come from remains found in caves, these may have been the survivors protected by their habitat and less likely to show signs of cancer.

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