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Why The Crusades Were Awesome, Actually


OverSword

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This popped up after I watched an anti-Israel folk song that someone sent me a link to.  I'm almost positive they wouldn't like it if I were to send them this but thought it was interesting enough to share.  Enjoy

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LoL,  I can’t bring myself to click on it!   I don’t think I want to take a chance on being convinced that repeated invasion, mass murder, and thievery is “Completely Justified”. .   In the name of gawd of course .     I’m pathetically gullible ,I tend to believe the last thing I heard :P  but maybe I’ll chance it later. 

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30 minutes ago, lightly said:

LoL,  I can’t bring myself to click on it!   I don’t think I want to take a chance on being convinced that repeated invasion, mass murder, and thievery is “Completely Justified”. .   In the name of gawd of course .     I’m pathetically gullible ,I tend to believe the last thing I heard :P  but maybe I’ll chance it later. 

In brief... the first crusade occurred AFTER 400 YEARS of Islamic warfafre against Christians.  Remain ignorant if you prefer to believe the lies...

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How does Islamic Jihad measure up to the Crusades?

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lightly said:

LoL,  I can’t bring myself to click on it!   I don’t think I want to take a chance on being convinced that repeated invasion, mass murder, and thievery is “Completely Justified”. .   In the name of gawd of course .     I’m pathetically gullible ,I tend to believe the last thing I heard :P  but maybe I’ll chance it later. 

It's just facts.

Edited by OverSword
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55 minutes ago, and-then said:

In brief... the first crusade occurred AFTER 400 YEARS of Islamic warfafre against Christians.  Remain ignorant if you prefer to believe the lies...

What about the Northern Crusades, the Crusades against the Waldensians and the Crusades against the Cathars? 

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Anyone harboring dreams of invading the Middle East and bulldozing Mecca, you've been beaten to the punch.  The Fundamentalist Wahabi Saudi royals have already done it. LINK

Of course they have also sunk their considerable fortunes into the dumbest super project the world has ever seen.  Honestly, a seven year old could figure out why this will not work: The Line

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

What about the Northern Crusades, the Crusades against the Waldensians and the Crusades against the Cathars? 

Post a video 🤣

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25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Post a video 🤣

No..

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post-101621-0-32764900-1407083524_thumb.jpg

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6 hours ago, and-then said:

In brief... the first crusade occurred AFTER 400 YEARS of Islamic warfafre against Christians.  Remain ignorant if you prefer to believe the lies...

I admit to ignorance..  as with most things I only seem to have a simple outline sort of picture.  I’m willing to learn more..    basically an Abrahamic religions family feud?   A fight for dominance in and possession of the ‘holy land’ ?     Is it over yet?  Did anybody win?  

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1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Anyone harboring dreams of invading the Middle East and bulldozing Mecca, you've been beaten to the punch.  The Fundamentalist Wahabi Saudi royals have already done it. LINK

Of course they have also sunk their considerable fortunes into the dumbest super project the world has ever seen.  Honestly, a seven year old could figure out why this will not work: The Line

Lol, that's a lot of scaling down. 

The city's plans anticipated a population of 9 million (25% of Saudi Arabia's then population of 35.5 million)[4] and were later scaled down to 300,000 people.[5] Originally intended to be 170km, it was scaled down to 2.4km.[6]

 

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3 hours ago, and-then said:

In brief... the first crusade occurred AFTER 400 YEARS of Islamic warfafre against Christians.  Remain ignorant if you prefer to believe the lies...

Erm.... the first Crusade was against Christians and Jews in its early stages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Crusade.) and later ones also were against "heretics."  

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4 hours ago, and-then said:

In brief... the first crusade occurred AFTER 400 YEARS of Islamic warfafre against Christians.  Remain ignorant if you prefer to believe the lies...

I just read this response again and I'd like to apologize.  While accurate, it was unnecessarily aggressive and that was uncalled for.  I'm sorry.

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6 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Erm.... the first Crusade was against Christians and Jews in its early stages 

The so-called People's Crusade was part of the First Crusade, and not a very successful part at that.  As the saying goes: A pile of logs is not a house, and an unruly mob is not an army. 

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21 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

The so-called People's Crusade was part of the First Crusade, and not a very successful part at that.  As the saying goes: A pile of logs is not a house, and an unruly mob is not an army. 

In all the crusades (if memory serves) there were a number of incidents where Christian towns were attacked and sacked, and Jewish areas in towns were burned/sacked/destroyed.  And People's Crusade was what got the elites moving.

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10 hours ago, and-then said:

I just read this response again and I'd like to apologize.  While accurate, it was unnecessarily aggressive and that was uncalled for.  I'm sorry.

During the Crusades the Jews were attacked and slaughtered all over Europe for many reasons including the Crusades. The Jews were also allies with the Spanish Muslims which is why Spain was so hard on them during the Reconquista.

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On 4/24/2024 at 6:09 PM, Kenemet said:

In all the crusades (if memory serves) there were a number of incidents where Christian towns were attacked and sacked, and Jewish areas in towns were burned/sacked/destroyed.  And People's Crusade was what got the elites moving.

People need money for large excursions.

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On 4/24/2024 at 4:09 AM, Kenemet said:

In all the crusades (if memory serves) there were a number of incidents where Christian towns were attacked and sacked, and Jewish areas in towns were burned/sacked/destroyed.  And People's Crusade was what got the elites moving.

The entire Fourth Crusade was western forces sacking Byzantium, their fellow Christian empire; the one who not only kept Muslims out of western Europe for centuries but who provided the impetus for the First Crusade a century earlier when the Byzantine emperor Alexius I asked Pope Urban to send military aid against them.

Like, totally awesome dude.

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Posted (edited)

Wow, this thread is educationamal!    ..been reading a little about them too..   learned that absolution from your sins was one of the benefits of volunteering.    & that the extreme costs of the ventures organized TAXATION into normalcy.  & that shipping men and materials was ,generally, very profitable (some things never change?)    I still have to wonder how much the Kings, & their loyalists, (repeatedly?) made on the holy wars.   Did god get a cut?..or go into debt?  :P   Maybe HE suffered an identity crisis!?  ..possibly a nervous breakdown?

Edited by lightly
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, lightly said:

Wow, this thread is educationamal!    ..been reading a little about them too..   learned that absolution from your sins was one of the benefits of volunteering.    & that the extreme costs of the ventures organized TAXATION into normalcy.  & that shipping men and materials was ,generally, very profitable (some things never change?)    I still have to wonder how much the Kings, & their loyalists, (repeatedly?) made on the holy wars.   Did god get a cut?..or go into debt?  :P   Maybe HE suffered an identity crisis!?  ..possibly a nervous breakdown?

The absolution deal was what got everyone from lesser nobility to commoners to join the cause. As soon as the final battle of the First Crusade was over, the bulk of the crusaders went back home, leaving only a small force to hold the the Holy Land. The only reason the First Crusade was successful at all is because the Muslim forces were internally divided, the same thing that later caused the Crusader kingdoms to start collapsing. The rulers started stupidly squabbling with each other the same way they had done back in Europe when they should have prioritized the growing Muslim threat above all else.

It’s why the four crusader kingdoms never expanded beyond their initial sizes, holding only a thin strip of territory. It’s  why the Second Crusade was an utter debacle and a complete failure, why the Third Crusade was a stalemate, why the Fifth and Sixth Crusades accomplished nothing, and why the forces left on their own in the Holy Land slowly lost more and more territory back to the Muslims until they were finally driven out in 1291 after the fall of Acre.

They were constantly asking for help and reinforcements from Europe but the West never really responded with adequate help. They didn’t realize nor seemingly care how dire the situation really was until after Saladin retook Jerusalem in 1187.

And yes, several rulers and many nobles bankrupted themselves and their sank their country into debt over this foolishness. overtaxing the people to replenish their coffers for what essentially ended up being nothing more than two centuries worth of looting and land grabbing.

Slightly off topic, but my favorite crusader subtopic is the history of the military religious orders, especially the Knights Templar. There were some incredibly brave warriors who performed acts of selfless heroism in order to save innocent men, women and children. (Including Muslims, incidentally). They also absorbed, preserved and brought back to Europe much knowledge they gained in the East through their contacts with Muslims. They even learned Arabic and were frequently used as ambassadors to Muslim courts. When they weren’t trying to kill each other in battle, Templars and Muslims actually got along very well and a long-standing  mutual respect developed between them.

My favorite Grand Master of the Templars was William of Sonnac, a one eyed knight who ended up dying in the midst of battle. Another reason why the Crusades weren’t “awesome” the sheer waste of good men and the senseless slaughter of countless innocent men women and children, all  Christians, Jews and Muslims. Not to mention the destruction of knowledge on both sides. Countless irreplaceable libraries and artworks went up in flames.

To offset the negatives, there are many fascinating historical stories that came out of the period, and Crusader art and architecture is some of the most beautiful of the entire medieval era. The artwork on the tombs of the Crusader kings and other royals in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre must have been absolutely stunning. 

Edited by Antigonos
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for sharing all that info @Antigonos,     Yes, I’ve also been reading of some of the positives of the cultural interaction/culture clash … the Europeans learned a lot of ,new to them, science and math and art ?   That might have been the  awesomest  result of the crusades..the ,sort of accidental, incidental,  exchange of Knowledge between East & West ?    What was left after a good fire cleansing anyway? 

Edited by lightly
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, lightly said:

Thanks for sharing all that info @Antigonos,     Yes, I’ve also been reading of some of the positives of the cultural interaction/culture clash … the Europeans learned a lot of ,new to them, science and math and art ?   That might have been the  awesomest  result of the crusades..the ,sort of accidental, incidental,  exchange of Knowledge between East & West ?    What was left after a good fire cleansing anyway? 

A lot of knowledge from the Classical world had been preserved in the East while the West went through its Dark Ages. That knowledge was brought back to Europe during and after the Crusader period and provided the roots that would later grow and ultimately flower fully into the Renaissance period.

Edited by Antigonos
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5 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

A lot of knowledge from the Classical world had been preserved in the East while the West went through its Dark Ages. That knowledge was brought back to Europe during and after the Crusader period and provided the roots that would later grow and ultimately flower fully into the Renaissance period.

I've been playing Assassin's Creed recently, currently been all through Italy and next up Constantinople during the Ottoman reign...

Recently got the Valhalla one as well,set during the Viking era...going to have to get the Siege of Paris to go along with it.

Those games are pretty well rounded for games anyway...very good visuals for recreating days gone bye.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/23/2024 at 5:23 PM, lightly said:

I admit to ignorance..  as with most things I only seem to have a simple outline sort of picture.  I’m willing to learn more..    basically an Abrahamic religions family feud?   A fight for dominance in and possession of the ‘holy land’ ?     Is it over yet?  Did anybody win?  

I don't think it was ever actually primarily about religion, that is simply a way to "other" the people you want to go to war with over territory.  Some things never change.

Edited by OverSword
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