College campuses are in chaos with arrests being made all over the US

[Kittens Are Jerks]

The following is a short interview with a pro-Palestinian student protester from Manchester. I don't fully know what's happening there, but what I liked about this protester is that she demonstrated that it is indeed possible to disagree without being disagreeable, and to protest without being offensive. No racist rants, no threats, just a very clear summary of concerns with well defined goals and objectives.

[Tatetopa]

10 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

See, 9/11 took out four American planes with their passengers and brought down the World Trade Centre and Pentagon with thousands of American casualties. This started the US war on terror in 2001 which is continuing now as well.  They have violated the sovereignty of other countries to take out the likes of Bin Laden, Mullah Omar and many others. 

Canadian Sikh terrorists brought down a single Indian airplane , Air India 182 in 1984 which killed 24 Indian citizens, 268 Canadian citizens and 27 British citizens were killed in the crash. More foreign nationals were killed than Indian nationals.

Indian security forces are obviously seeking to prevent such a massacre again. 

I get it.  Welcome India to the grown up table of world power politics. I know my own nation has done far worse that most.  The point Canada was making was not about the innocence of the Sikh, it was about sovereignty. Nobody likes to have a guest murdered in their house.  It is bad for their reputation and power. When countries become major players in world power as India is doing, they sometimes take actions that individual citizens might not.  They know it, other countries know it, and they still talk and cooperate and the game of power goes on.  Canada will huff, India will deny and things will get back to normal. 

[Doug1066]

21 hours ago, susieice said:

What students were murdered by police at Columbia? Where are you getting this from?

You're getting Kent and Columbia mixed up.  Four murdered at Kent.  None murdered at Columbia (yet).

Doug

[Doug1066]

21 hours ago, susieice said:

They haven't gone to court yet.

Has anybody been charged?

Doug

[Doug1066]

16 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

What I've seen so far is pretty lame. When push comes to shove, they give up. They've got no fire in their bellies. The weakest hippy from the '60s could beat the crap out of most of them. The great grandchildren of three generations of pacifists make lousy protesters. Even their chanting is half-hearted and lame.

I don't think their hearts are in it.  Now if there was a draft threatening them...

Doug

[Doug1066]

15 hours ago, Duke Wellington said:

Sanctions remind me of troopers going over the top in WW1.

It if you keep doing something, and it keeps failing, maybe after the 200th time it will work. Pure insanity!

What is really needed is a vast, brutal, carpet bombing.

Nobody has ever been able to make genocide work.  Even the Nazis couldn't do it.

Bombs are not surgical instruments.  Carpet bombing Gaza will result in bombs landing in Israel.  13,000 Palestinian kids have already been killed by bombs bearing the words "Made in USA." 

Just how many future terrorists are you trying to make?

Doug

[Doug1066]

2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

NYPD official: Items found at Columbia show protesters were far from benign

A senior New York Police Department official shared photos on Friday of “tools of agitators” that officers had recovered after clearing a Columbia University building occupied by anti-Israel protesters earlier in the week.

“Gas masks, ear plugs, helmets, goggles, tape, hammers, knives, ropes, and a book on TERRORISM,” NYPD Deputy Commissioner Kaz Daughtry wrote on X, formerly Twitter, adding: “These are not the tools of students protesting, these are the tools of agitators, of people who were working on something nefarious.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/nypd-official-items-found-at-columbia-show-protesters-were-far-from-peaceful/

A prof I had for that journalism class in Taylor Hall moved to Columbia.  I wonder what he thinks of the situation.

I lost touch with him years ago, so have no way to contact him now.

Doug

[+susieice]

Houthis is offering suspended US students the chance to come to Yemen to finish their degrees.

'We are serious': Houthis offer to educate US students suspended in campus protests (msn.com)

"We are serious about welcoming students that have been suspended from U.S. universities for supporting Palestinians," an official at Sanaa University, which is run by the Houthis, told Reuters. "We are fighting this battle with Palestine in every way we can."

Sanaa University had issued a statement applauding the "humanitarian" position of the students in the United States and said they could continue their studies in Yemen.

[+susieice]

28 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

You're getting Kent and Columbia mixed up.  Four murdered at Kent.  None murdered at Columbia (yet).

Doug

You better take another look at what I quoted when I said that. And then read my response again. I know no one was murdered at 

Columbia. Another day, another attempt, right?

[+Hammerclaw]

21 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

I don't think their hearts are in it.  Now if there was a draft threatening them...

Doug

They're just kids, raised in the lap of luxury no real-world experience and not very bright, low hanging fruit ripe for manipulation by pros.

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.

Joseph Goebbels

 

[+susieice]

29 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Has anybody been charged?

Doug

yes. Are you ignoring everything posted?

[Doug1066]

22 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

And hate speech is the ones I'm talking about Doug...

Do you remember how many pages Charlottesville rambled on about hate speech was?... yeah that was one day...this several weeks.

With all due respect:

The First Amendment does not protect the speech you want to hear.  It protects the speech you don't want to hear.  Maybe there are students and/or "outside agitators" who have said some abominable things.  That's their right in America.  Doesn't matter whether it's one day, or months on end.

Was what was said "hate speech?"  Maybe, but has anybody been charged with that specific crime?  You'd have a stronger case if you could name a few.  That way, you are citing the opinion of police who were there and not just repeating a rumor that may or may not be true.  Even so, it's the opinion of police may not be true, either.  What do the demonstrators say?

I heard that term "outside agitators" bandied about by Nixon, Agnew and Rhodes, but nobody ever produced an "outside agitator."  That's one reason I question the use of that term now.  There are some students who are enrolled at multiple universities at the same time (I was one.).  These students travel back and forth between universities and are often the basis for "outside agitator" claims.  The University of Idaho and Washington State University even have a formal agreement allowing students to take courses for full credit at the other university.

As a scientist, I have learned not to put my trust in the media - they never fact check their articles before publication.  I have been at some events that were later reported in the newspapers and couldn't believe it was the same event I had been at.  Also, they are not fond of including references that will allow fact checking.

Just trying to be accurate.

Doug

Edited May 4 by Doug1066

[Doug1066]

2 minutes ago, susieice said:

yes. Are you ignoring everything posted?

Sorry.  I should have been more specific.  Has anybody been charged with hate speech?

Doug

[+Hammerclaw]

 

[+susieice]

8 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Sorry.  I should have been more specific.  Has anybody been charged with hate speech?

Doug

Not yet that I know of. There's been over 2300 arrests and a lot have court dates to appear to be charged or dismissed.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

22 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

A prof I had for that journalism class in Taylor Hall moved to Columbia.  I wonder what he thinks of the situation.

I lost touch with him years ago, so have no way to contact him now.

That's unfortunate. It would have been interesting to get his take on the protests there.

As to your question regarding arrests for hate speech, I don't believe any have been made. Arrests thus far range from trespass to criminal mischief and resisting arrest. Given the number of students arrested, many charges are either being dropped or reduced to misdemeanors.

[+susieice]

There's been a lot of lawsuits filed too starting in November. I know U Penn has quite a few from November to really early December. We're going to have to wait and see what the courts find. This didn't start overnight. It's been long going. What all was said and done to Jewish students will be presented in court also.

Edited May 4 by susieice

[Doug1066]

7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

They're just kids, raised in the lap of luxury no real-world experience and not very bright, low hanging fruit ripe for manipulation by pros.

The same situation prevailed during Vietnam.  And I'm not so sure about that "raised in the lap of luxury" line.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8913502/

I team-taught a course in field forestry.  In doing so, I made several trips between the main campus and the Kiamichi satellite campus (257 miles apart).  Every time I drove down to Kiamichi, I ate dinner on the road.  In the meantime, the students were served dinner at the camp.  When I got there, one student always asked if he could have my uneaten meal from the camp (Students had to supply their own meals on weekends.).  My unused meals and occasionally those of another commuting prof were all he had to eat on weekends.

At Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado, a student camped out all winter on BLM land near the campus because he couldn't afford to live in a dorm.  He showered at the school gym and bought lunches in the student union cafeteria.  That's what he lived on.

The big reason students don't go to college is not tuition, fees and books, but the cost of food and shelter.

I don't know about Columbia, being in an urban situation and a big-name school, but I wonder how many of its students are homeless.

Doug

[Duke Wellington]

42 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Nobody has ever been able to make genocide work.  Even the Nazis couldn't do it.

Bombs are not surgical instruments.  Carpet bombing Gaza will result in bombs landing in Israel.  13,000 Palestinian kids have already been killed by bombs bearing the words "Made in USA." 

Just how many future terrorists are you trying to make?

Doug

Iran, not Gaza Strip.

[Doug1066]

5 minutes ago, susieice said:

There's been a lot of lawsuits filed too starting in November. I know U Penn has quite a few from November to really early December. We're going to have to wait and see what the courts find. This didn't start overnight. It's been long going. What all was said and done to Jewish students will be presented in court also.

The calmer situation that prevails in court should allow more truthful results to come out.

Doug

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Doug1066 said:

The same situation prevailed during Vietnam.  And I'm not so sure about that "raised in the lap of luxury" line.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8913502/

I team-taught a course in field forestry.  In doing so, I made several trips between the main campus and the Kiamichi satellite campus (257 miles apart).  Every time I drove down to Kiamichi, I ate dinner on the road.  In the meantime, the students were served dinner at the camp.  When I got there, one student always asked if he could have my uneaten meal from the camp (Students had to supply their own meals on weekends.).  My unused meals and occasionally those of another commuting prof were all he had to eat on weekends.

At Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado, a student camped out all winter on BLM land near the campus because he couldn't afford to live in a dorm.  He showered at the school gym and bought lunches in the student union cafeteria.  That's what he lived on.

The big reason students don't go to college is not tuition, fees and books, but the cost of food and shelter.

I don't know about Columbia, being in an urban situation and a big-name school, but I wonder how many of its students are homeless.

Doug

Poor kids don't risk getting kicked out college and losing their grants, other than the odd idiot. No, these students overwhelmingly come from very well-to-do families who can afford to spend a hundred thousand dollars or more a year to send their kids to elite institutions of learning. 

[Doug1066]

Just now, Duke Wellington said:

Iran, not Gaza Strip.

Won't work in Iran, either.

The Shah who was overthrown by the current regime was an American puppet.  No wonder the heads of the regime don't like us.  What is surprising is that America is highly regarded by the citizens.  Maybe we did something right?

Doug

[Doug1066]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Poor kids don't risk getting kicked out college and losing their grants, other than the odd idiot. No, these students overwhelmingly come from very well-to-do families who can afford to spend a hundred thousand dollars or more a year to send their kids to elite institutions of learning. 

I would recommend that those families send their kids to school somewhere else next year.  That might get the message through to the administration.

Doug

[Kittens Are Jerks]

26 minutes ago, susieice said:

Houthis is offering suspended US students the chance to come to Yemen to finish their degrees.

Thanks but no thanks — especially given how Yemen authorities have been increasingly restricting women's freedom of movement impacting their access to healthcare, employment and EDUCATION. It's one of the worst places to be a woman.

[+susieice]

6 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

The calmer situation that prevails in court should allow more truthful results to come out.

Doug

I hope so. We can hope that whatever those results are they're accepted.