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This election will be the most dishonest in modern times


pellinore

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Posted (edited)

Michael Heseltine has warned that the 2024 general election campaign “will be the most dishonest in modern times” because of the refusal of the main parties to debate the consequences of Brexit.

The former deputy prime minister, who fell out with the Conservatives over leaving the European Union, has written exclusively for The Independent explaining how the big issues in this general election – the economy, immigration and defence – all need to be debated in the context of the UK’s relationship with the EU.

But he claimed that Labour and the Tories are too scared to discuss Brexit because of the potential impact on their voter bases.

However, he argued that almost no major issue can be discussed without reference to the subject which has, in effect, dominated British politics since the EU referendum in 2016 and arguably since the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 which shattered John Major’s government.

Lord Heseltine’s case is supported by exclusive polling for The Independent by Redfield &Wilton which reveals that British voters link Brexit to two of the biggest problems in the country – the cost of living and immigration.

Refusal to mention Brexit and EU makes this election most dishonest in modern times, warns Heseltine | The Independent

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, pellinore said:

Michael Heseltine has warned that the 2024 general election campaign “will be the most dishonest in modern times” because of the refusal of the main parties to debate the consequences of Brexit.

The former deputy prime minister, who fell out with the Conservatives over leaving the European Union, has written exclusively for The Independent explaining how the big issues in this general election – the economy, immigration and defence – all need to be debated in the context of the UK’s relationship with the EU.

But he claimed that Labour and the Tories are too scared to discuss Brexit because of the potential impact on their voter bases.

However, he argued that almost no major issue can be discussed without reference to the subject which has, in effect, dominated British politics since the EU referendum in 2016 and arguably since the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 which shattered John Major’s government.

Lord Heseltine’s case is supported by exclusive polling for The Independent by Redfield &Wilton which reveals that British voters link Brexit to two of the biggest problems in the country – the cost of living and immigration.

Refusal to mention Brexit and EU makes this election most dishonest in modern times, warns Heseltine | The Independent

Translation: "Already stinking rich Tory fossil Lord Heseltine (who, let's be honest here, was completely useless even when he was in office anyway) still continues to whinge on about the UK's democratically mandated exit from the European Union nearly a decade after the vote took place, arrogantly lording it over us all yet again, looking down his nose at us all and telling us he knows what's best for us and you'll like it you working class oik, obviously because he had his greedy snout well and truly in the EU trough, and he's missing the £90,000 per year taxpayer funded handouts he was creaming from the EU gravy train." 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1365120/RICHARD-KAY-Heseltines-900-000-EU-handout.html

Edited by Destination Unknown
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2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Translation: "Already stinking rich Tory fossil Lord Heseltine (who, let's be honest here, was completely useless even when he was in office anyway) still continues to whinge on about the UK's democratically mandated exit from the European Union nearly a decade after the vote took place, arrogantly lording it over us all yet again, looking down his nose at us all and telling us he knows what's best for us and you'll like it you working class oik, obviously because he had his greedy snout well and truly in the EU trough, and he's missing the £90,000 per year taxpayer funded handouts he was creaming from the EU gravy train." 🤔👇👇👇👇

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1365120/RICHARD-KAY-Heseltines-900-000-EU-handout.html

Well, you're okay. You got what you wanted out of Brexit: you feel more sovereign and believe you live in a more democratic country.

Most people resent the cost- £5 billion on the new import facilities at Dover, £145 per lorry cost/£129 per pallet to pay for the new Brexit border red tape. Musicians, engineers, professionals unable to move and work freely through Europe.

Trade deals which undermine our farming, fishing, and manufacturing industries. Finacial services moving from the City to the EU and New York.

We now follow rules rather than make them (you know the new plastic screw tops on containers that don't break off?- that's an EU rule we have to follow).

Most people resent the new immigration rules that has replaced Europeans with people from Asia and India and Africa (Farage was recently criticised for being racist/Islamophobic but he was just speaking the truth- we have more in common with people from our own continent, Europe, rather than the rest of the world). Pre-Brexit- 220k immigrants per year- post-Brexit: 720k in 2022, 680k last year. And that is settled immigration, not temporary freedom of movement immigration from our own continent. And 400k forecast per year for the rest of the decade

So, Lord Heseltine may be an old fossil, but he speaks for the majority in the UK. We don't want to go back to the 1950s, because the world has moved on.

That's why the Brexit Tory nutters will be booted out in six weeks' time!

 

 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Well, you're okay. You got what you wanted out of Brexit: you feel more sovereign and believe you live in a more democratic country.

Most people resent the cost- £5 billion on the new import facilities at Dover, £145 per lorry cost/£129 per pallet to pay for the new Brexit border red tape. Musicians, engineers, professionals unable to move and work freely through Europe.

Trade deals which undermine our farming, fishing, and manufacturing industries. Finacial services moving from the City to the EU and New York.

We now follow rules rather than make them (you know the new plastic screw tops on containers that don't break off?- that's an EU rule we have to follow).

Most people resent the new immigration rules that has replaced Europeans with people from Asia and India and Africa (Farage was recently criticised for being racist/Islamophobic but he was just speaking the truth- we have more in common with people from our own continent, Europe, rather than the rest of the world). Pre-Brexit- 220k immigrants per year- post-Brexit: 720k in 2022, 680k last year. And that is settled immigration, not temporary freedom of movement immigration from our own continent. And 400k forecast per year for the rest of the decade

So, Lord Heseltine may be an old fossil, but he speaks for the majority in the UK. We don't want to go back to the 1950s, because the world has moved on.

That's why the Brexit Tory nutters will be booted out in six weeks' time!

Where do I even start with that load of absolute nonsense?

It's as if you've come out with every single possible unsubstantiated Remoaner claim going and put it into one long anti-Brexit diatribe. Can't you just stick to one (incorrect) claim at a time, it would make it so much easier for me to rip to shreds on here, rather than having to write a novel the size of War & Peace in response?

Let's start with your claim about trade deals that undermine our farming shall we.

So is it your belief that the UK having a trade deal in place with a country that allows for quota free imports such as beef able to be produced cheaper than farmers can in the UK, is bad for UK farmers and should be avoided then pellinore?

 

As for financial services, I have debunked that claim time and time again, and yet you still carry on spewing out that absolute lie as if it is true, when you know damn well it isn't. 👇👇👇👇

Of course we have to follow EU regulations if we want to sell goods into the EU, that's the same as any other non-EU country has to do as well.

Guess what, if an EU country wants to sell its goods to a non-EU country (the UK for example), it would have to follow the regulations of the country they intend to sell their goods into without any say in them either, but that certainly doesn't stop Germany from selling their Audis, BMWs Mercedes and VWs into other non-EU countries does it, or do you somehow think that just because an EU country is in the EU, it somehow gets a free pass? 🤦

When we were EU members all businesses in the UK had to follow EU trade rules and standards, even if they did not export to the rest of the EU. In fact only 8% of UK businesses exported to the rest of the EU, leaving 92% having to follow EU rules they had no say over because they had nothing to do with the rest of the EU.

Now that 92% can follow rules that their customers want them to follow, not those imposed by the EU. 👇👇👇👇

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-businesses-export-eu/

 

You claim we don't want to go back to the 1950s because the world has moved on, but yet you're the one that obviously hasn't moved on from a vote that happened nearly a decade ago, because you're still screeching on about our democratically mandated exit from a European political union that nobody ever even voted to join in the first place, but one that had been imposed on us through stealth without our consent, a wannabe federal European Superstate that had its foundations built in the 1950s. And you can't see the irony.!! 🤦

💡I know what you should do to save face pellinore.

You should do what you always do when the facts don't suit your narrative. You should completely ignore this total tear down of your blatant lies and create yet another bias one-sided Brexit-bashing thread that's totally unrelated to this one instead. 🤔

Edited by Destination Unknown
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14 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

our democratically mandated exit from a European political union that nobody ever even voted to join in the first place, but one that had been imposed on us through stealth without our consent, a wannabe federal European Superstate that had its foundations built in the 1950s.

That's what I said, you are happy. The rest of us in the UK call it mental illness.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, pellinore said:

That's what I said, you are happy. The rest of us in the UK call it mental illness.

No pellinore, the rest of us in the UK call it democracy, and the only ones with a mental illness are the undemocratic crybabies who still cannot accept they lost a democratic vote nearly a decade ago.

Now, getting back to one of your (many) unsubstantiated claims, about trade deals that undermine our farming.

So is it your belief that the UK having a trade deal in place with a country that allows for quota free imports such as beef able to be produced cheaper than farmers can in the UK, is bad for UK farmers and should be avoided then?

Edited by Destination Unknown
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6 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

So is it your belief that the UK having a trade deal in place with a country that allows for quota free imports such as beef able to be produced cheaper than farmers can in the UK, is bad for UK farmers and should be avoided then?

A country allows cheap imports that undermines its own industry? You can't see that that is insane? That situation is exactly why countries use tariffs- to protect their own industries. There is something wrong with your thinking- unless you want to destroy the UK. Do you not believe we should be more self-sustaining with food production and less reliant on imports?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, pellinore said:

A country allows cheap imports that undermines its own industry? You can't see that that is insane? That situation is exactly why countries use tariffs- to protect their own industries. There is something wrong with your thinking- unless you want to destroy the UK. Do you not believe we should be more self-sustaining with food production and less reliant on imports?

So it's your belief that the UK having a trade deal in place with a country that allows for quota free/tariff free imports such as beef able to be produced cheaper than farmers can in the UK, is bad for UK farmers and should be avoided.

Great - so you're against EU membership then, seeing as Ireland can produce beef cheaper than the UK can, there are zero quotas and tariffs between EU members, and we import around 200,000 tonnes of beef from Ireland every year. Thats just Ireland BTW. So you're obviously against that. 😂👇👇👇👇

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-41371030.html

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

Great - so you're against EU membership then, seeing as Ireland can produce beef cheaper than the UK can, there are zero quotas and tariffs between EU members, and we import around 200,000 tonnes of beef from Ireland every year. 

You don't understand how international trade works. Try this:

Edit: you didn't understand how trade works when you were posting as stevewinn, you were always banging on about how we should trade under WTO terms- which anyone with the least knowledge would know would be suicidal.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, pellinore said:

You don't understand how international trade works. Try this:

Edit: you didn't understand how trade works when you were posting as stevewinn, you were always banging on about how we should trade under WTO terms- which anyone with the least knowledge would know would be suicidal.

I'm well aware of how international trade works pellinore, so don't bother posting a video of that complete nutter Loopy Liz Webster, who constantly rants on about Brexit daily on her twitter/X feed. Believe it or not pellinore, she's actually worse than you are, and that's saying something. She once even tried to blame the weather on Brexit, and I've ripped her to shreds many times on twitter/X, including when she tweeted the video you've just posted, so I'm not even going to bother watching that silly bint again.

If there was any remaining doubt as to what the actual motivations and underlying focus is of the campaign group "Save British Farming" and their spokeswoman Loopy Liz Webster, it is a front for the European Movement and rejoining the EU, so no conflict of interest there then eh. 🤦

Quote: "During 2020, I helped Liz Webster set up Save British Farming, working with Mike Galsworthy and Tom Brufatto at March for Change."

Oh, and once again, I am not this "Steve Winn" you and commenter "Unusual Tournament" constantly accuses me of being, and I've already reported the other commenter for accusing me of being someone I'm not, and that particular thread was removed obviously because the moderator knows that accusation is a downright blatant lie, so don't even go down that road pellinore.

Screenshot_20240528_000856_X.jpg

Edited by Destination Unknown
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

I'm well aware of how international trade works pellinore, so don't bother posting a video of that complete nutter Loopy Liz Webster, who constantly rants on about Brexit daily on her twitter/X feed. Believe it or not pellinore, she's actually worse than you are, and that's saying something. She once even tried to blame the weather on Brexit, and I've ripped her to shreds many times on twitter/X, including when she tweeted the video you've just posted, so I'm not even going to bother watching that silly bint again.

If there was any remaining doubt as to what the actual motivations and underlying focus is of the campaign group "Save British Farming" and their spokeswoman Loopy Liz Webster, it is a front for the European Movement and rejoining the EU, so no conflict of interest there then eh. 🤦

Quote: "During 2020, I helped Liz Webster set up Save British Farming, working with Mike Galsworthy and Tom Brufatto at March for Change."

Oh, and once again, I am not this "Steve Winn" you and commenter "Unusual Tournament" constantly accuses me of being, and I've already reported the other commenter for accusing me of being someone I'm not, and that particular thread was removed obviously because the moderator knows that accusation is a downright blatant lie, so don't even go down that road pellinore.

Screenshot_20240528_000856_X.jpg

Steve, just ask yourself why Sunak doesn't mention Brexit in the election race, despite rolling out other mad items like re-introducing National Service and the Triple Lock Plus? After all, Brexit has been seismic with regard to UK politics and the economy, and the Tories delivered it- (or part delivered it, it is still being rolled out in the £5 billion failed Dover crossing import checks this month and the on-going £100 billion per year cost to the UK).

Why aren't they boasting about it? Maybe this is why:

However, as people pointed out on X, a report from January shows the average Brit is already nearly £2,000 worse off due to Brexit.

The 2023 findings from Cambridge Econometrics, commissioned by City Hall, revealed that there were two million job losses nationwide in the financial services and construction sectors as a result of leaving the bloc.

In fact, Brexit’s total cost to the UK economy is £140 billion, the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, claimed at the time.

This is not the only report to conclude that Brexit made life worse in the UK; the UK in a Changing Europe think tank and the LSE have previously estimated that Brexit already added 6% to food bills.

Sunak Called Out For Overlooking Brexit On Campaign Trail | HuffPost UK Politics (huffingtonpost.co.uk)

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Steve, just ask yourself why Sunak doesn't mention Brexit in the election race, despite rolling out other mad items like re-introducing National Service and the Triple Lock Plus? After all, Brexit has been seismic with regard to UK politics and the economy, and the Tories delivered it- (or part delivered it, it is still being rolled out in the £5 billion failed Dover crossing import checks this month and the on-going £100 billion per year cost to the UK).

Why aren't they boasting about it?

Sunak Called Out For Overlooking Brexit On Campaign Trail | HuffPost UK Politics (huffingtonpost.co.uk)

Just what part of "I am not Steve Winn and I will report your comment if you persist in going down that road" do you not understand pellinore?

Comment reported.

Edited by Destination Unknown
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1 minute ago, Destination Unknown said:

What part of I am not Steve Winn do you not understand pellinore?

Comment reported.

Okay, I won't refer to stevewinn anymore. I suppose we confuse you as you both think erecting trade barriers between countries makes trade easier. It is an unusual twist of logic, not even shared by Rees Mogg, or Farage, or anyone really.

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3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Okay, I won't refer to stevewinn anymore. I suppose we confuse you as you both think erecting trade barriers between countries makes trade easier. It is an unusual twist of logic, not even shared by Rees Mogg, or Farage, or anyone really.

Too late pellinore. I specifically told you not to refer to me as this "Steve Winn" in post #10 above, but you deliberately went out of your way to completely ignore that and refer to me as Steve Winn again in your subsequent post anyway. Your comment has already been reported.

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Just now, Destination Unknown said:

Too late pellinore. I specifically told you not to refer to me as this "Steve Winn" in post #10 above, but you deliberately went out of your way to completely ignore that and refer to me as Steve Winn again in your subsequent post anyway. Your comment has already been reported.

So this gives you an opt-out from responding?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

So this gives you an opt-out from responding?

No pellinore. YOU gave me the opt-out from responding after I had already specifically told you not to refer to me as Steve Winn. So tough. You did that to yourself. You've only yourself to blame.

Edited by Destination Unknown
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7 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

No pellinore. YOU gave me the opt-out from responding after I had already specifically told you not to refer to me as Steve Winn. So tough. You did that to yourself. You've only yourself to blame.

Sunak doesn't have an answer, Farage doesn't, neither does Tice, or you. That's why the GE will be obliteration.

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23 hours ago, pellinore said:

That's what I said, you are happy. The rest of us in the UK call it mental illness.

You are so biased you`re living in a delusional parallel universe.

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Of course it will be the most dishonest election in modern times..... Starmer has started the ball rolling by saying he will not increase taxes. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pellinore said:

Sunak doesn't have an answer, Farage doesn't, neither does Tice, or you. That's why the GE will be obliteration.

At least one thing your hero, the already stinking rich Tory fossil Lord Heseltine, has got right, this election will be the most dishonest in modern times.

Here's Milly Hill, Labour Councillor for Stroud District Council, claiming in a promotional Labour video that she's been a lifelong Tory voter who is now going to vote Labour for the first time ever, despite supporting Corbyn in the 2019 General Election. 🤔👇👇👇👇

 

Edited by Destination Unknown
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

There is no need for an answer pellinore, the reason why Brexit isn't being talked about in the lead up to this General Election, not just by the Tories, but by Labour and the Liberal Democrats as well, is because Brexit is NOT an issue, no matter how much you desperately want it to be.

The only people that are trying to make it an issue is undemocratic Remoaning little crybabies like YOU pellinore, who still cannot accept that you LOST a democratic vote nearly a decade ago.

Brexit will never cease to be an issue as it will constantly throw up challenges as the UK will keep having to align with EU regulations.

The country still faces a raft of loose ends and disruptions as it continues to struggle to come to terms with leaving the bloc, and economists are warning that the Brexit dividend could actually amount to a £125bn a year loss.

Meanwhile the bitter Northern Ireland border dispute that held up the UK’s exit for years so long remains unresolved, and experts are predicting the economic fall-out from Brexit will continue indefinitely.

Friday saw another blow to the UK’s efforts to set up post-Brexit trade deals as negotiations on a potential deal with Canada broke down after nearly two years due to a disagreement over cheese and beef.

And according to those on the frontline dealing with the changes brought about Brexit, as well as those due to come in, the UK could be about to witness a new wave of disruption.

Why Brexit is still not 'done' - and why it's about to cause even more chaos (inews.co.uk)

Edited by pellinore
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Brexit will never cease to be an issue as it will constantly throw up challenges as the UK will keep having to align with EU regulations.

The country still faces a raft of loose ends and disruptions as it continues to struggle to come to terms with leaving the bloc, and economists are warning that the Brexit dividend could actually amount to a £125bn a year loss.

Meanwhile the bitter Northern Ireland border dispute that held up the UK’s exit for years so long remains unresolved, and experts are predicting the economic fall-out from Brexit will continue indefinitely.

Friday saw another blow to the UK’s efforts to set up post-Brexit trade deals as negotiations on a potential deal with Canada broke down after nearly two years due to a disagreement over cheese and beef.

And according to those on the frontline dealing with the changes brought about Brexit, as well as those due to come in, the UK could be about to witness a new wave of disruption.

Why Brexit is still not 'done' - and why it's about to cause even more chaos (inews.co.uk)

Alright, let's do it your way then pellinore. If Brexit is never going to cease to be an issue as you claim, why do YOU think none of the 3 main political parties are talking about Brexit during the run up to this year's General Election then?

Labour are far more interested in appeasing Hamas and Palestine than they are about anything that's going on in this country. Just take a look at gob on a stick Angela Rayner, Shadow Deputy Prime Minister, grovelling to a bunch of Muslim men (no women in the room, obviously) begging them to vote for her so she can get Palestine on the agenda. Could you honestly vote for that. Because I certainly couldn't.

 

Edited by Destination Unknown
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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Labour can't mention it because rejoining is too politically toxic to bring up prior to a GE. Maybe once they have been in power for a year or so

With the recent passing of the 'Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill' into UK law, any attempt by Labour to reverse Brexit and rejoin the EU would mean that the UK would have to lower its animal welfare standards, because European Union trade rules prevent member states from banning live exports to other countries in the bloc. Are you happy with that pellinore? 🤔

Here's agricultural news publisher 'Agriland UK' telling you about the latest Brexit benefit:

Quote: "The passing of the Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports Bill) means taking advantage of Brexit freedoms which mean the UK can ban live animal exports, which was prevented under EU rules."

Keep on dreaming pellinore, because rejoining the EU is never going to happen, and in another 10 years time you'll still be on here screeching about the EU, and I'll have had another 10 years of enjoyment laughing at you. 😂😂😂😂👇👇👇👇

https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/uk-set-to-ban-livestock-exports-after-bill-is-passed/

Edited by Destination Unknown
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1 hour ago, pellinore said:

No steve, the Tories can't mention it because it is an on-going ****-show of their making. If it wasn't, they would talk of nothing else.

Labour can't mention it because rejoining is too politically toxic to bring up prior to a GE. Maybe once they have been in power for a year or so

You've sort of inadvertently  hit the nail on the head there. Labour won't mention it because, suggesting rejoining would lose them the election as there are still far more people that want nothing to do with the undemocratic EU (German) experiment than want to rejoin. If it were a vote winner they would be shouting it from the rooftops, you know Starmer, he'll say anything to get into power. But yes I've no doubt that once elected Starmer will attempt to take us back in, it's the sort of anti-democratic crap we've come to expect from our politicians.

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1 hour ago, Destination Unknown said:

With the recent passing of the 'Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill' into UK law, any attempt by Labour to reverse Brexit and rejoin the EU would mean that the UK would have to lower its animal welfare standards, because European Union trade rules prevent member states from banning live exports to other countries in the bloc. Are you happy with that pellinore? 🤔

Here's agricultural news publisher 'Agriland UK' telling you about the latest Brexit benefit:

Quote: "The passing of the Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports Bill) means taking advantage of Brexit freedoms which mean the UK can ban live animal exports, which was prevented under EU rules."

Keep on dreaming pellinore, because rejoining the EU is never going to happen, and in another 10 years time you'll still be on here screeching about the EU, and I'll have had another 10 years of enjoyment laughing at you. 😂😂😂😂👇👇👇👇

https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/uk-set-to-ban-livestock-exports-after-bill-is-passed/

Good news, but a bit ironic, since the whole point of Brexit (and its effect) is to buy imported cheap meat produced to lower standards. (At present most of our meat is sourced from the EU anyway, and probably always will be, for logistical reasons).

And are you suggesting people voted for Brexit because they were concerned about animal welfare? 

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