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The Sealed Book of Revelation 5:1: A NEW Theory and a challenging question!


TheOneInsideTheZero

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12 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's what I couldn't think of. The term "Bible code". But that originally used the scriptures in Hebrew and with all the languages and writing styles used, including differences in the actual Hebrew depending on the scribe you can make anything you want out of it. 

It was nagging my brain since this thread started. A few years ago there was a Bible code craze. I could be wrong, but I think there is a form of magic squares that does the same thing. I'm unsure though.

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Just now, XenoFish said:

It was nagging my brain since this thread started. A few years ago there was a Bible code craze. I could be wrong, but I think there is a form of magic squares that does the same thing. I'm unsure though.

Few years? That's friggin 80s-90s. 😄

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Just now, Piney said:

Few years? That's friggin 80s-90s. 😄

I thought we had something in 2010 too. 

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6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I thought we had something in 2010 too. 

Oh, I was out of the loop then. 

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1 hour ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

"Watch out that no one deceives you for many will come in my name (Christians) saying, 'I(Jesus) am the Christ' and will deceive many." Here Jesus is admitting he is not the Christ 

So you don't think Jesus is the Christ? Why not? New Testament's all about it. 

How do you read this? What do you make of it: 

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matt16:15-17. 

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2 hours ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

You right in the sense that advancing one in the alphabet was me probably explaining myself wrong. But if you go one adjacent letter forward or backward in the alphabet it does say UFIND.

T  u     (forward 1)
E  f     (forward 1)
H  i     (forward 1)
O  n   (backwards 1)
E  d   (backwards 1)

What gave you the idea that it needed to advanced/regressed in such a progression? Because TEHOE could be translated as “BATTY” if I got clever with numbers enough. 
And again … you can’t find a secret encoded in the Bible by using several generations removed translations. 

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11 minutes ago, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

So you don't think Jesus is the Christ? Why not? New Testament's all about it. 

How do you read this? What do you make of it: 

“He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Matt16:15-17. 

Great quote. Here is my take on it and of course I could stand wrong but "Trust those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it"

First thing to note is the verse you quoted says that the Father in heaven revealed the truth of who Jesus was to Simon. We know from Luke 17:21 that the kingdom of heaven is within us and not in the clouds somewhere and that we are the temple of the living God and his spirit dwells in us from birth regardless of race, ethnic background or upbringing as "I will never leave or forsake you". 

The next thing to note is that the key to unlocking the mysteries in the Bible is not to focus on Who Jesus is but what he is (The Word). We know according to James "Do not merely read the word and so deceive yourself. Do what it says. Any man who reads the word and doesn't do what it says is like a man who looks at "Himself" in a "Mirror" walk away and immediately forgets what he looks like. Here our reflection in the mirror is clearly depicted as the word itself. That indicates to me that we collectively are the word made flesh which ties in nicely to God being the author of life and having written all our stories in his book before any of them came to be (Psalm 139:16). This idea that we collectively are Christ also helps us understand that when Jesus said what you did not do for them you did not do for him. Because they are him. And love thy neighbor as thyself because thy neighbor is thyself.

Anyhow. When we first read Jesus in the Bible we see an image in our minds eye and perceive him as human. This is the first coming of Christ. But when you start to see he is symbolic or the words themselves you will start to uncover the deeper secrets of the Bible beyond the veil that is to say Christ flesh (Heb. 10:20 By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh). This is the second coming of Christ in your life.

I'll leave you with this for now and hope this make some kind of sense:

Therefore from now on we know no one according to the flesh: and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no longer.

What this is saying is once you say Christ a man who lived, breathed and walked the earth 2000 years ago. But now you know that he is the very words you read in the Bible. Christ is the Word of God. The Bible is the word of God. You could say the Bible is a word body then. And what is so compelling is that there are 7 layers of flesh in the human body and then the blood. The church is called the body of Christ and of course therre are 7 churches in Revelation that make up his body. Hence the command to eat his flesh or the surface levels of interpretation of the word of god to get to the life blood or understanding of it that lies just below the surface. That underlying river of life or the open of the seaeld book that is hidden withint he bible itself is what I was trying to reveal to this audience. But I screwed up as some have told me this forum is for debate. Oh well. Let me know if you have questionis and remember we all have value in putting the Biblical puzzle together. I am just give you my two cents. Hope you found it helpful.

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21 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

What gave you the idea that it needed to advanced/regressed in such a progression? Because TEHOE could be translated as “BATTY” if I got clever with numbers enough. 
And again … you can’t find a secret encoded in the Bible by using several generations removed translations. 

I sense you skeptical and find what I am trying to reveal as utter nonsense. I also sense that you think the King James Bible is not a valid translation. That's okay. What I am trying to point out to you and other is that The King James Version of the Bible in my understanding is the oldest version of the Bible written in English before the Church started rewriting it a 100 times over into the Happy Bible, The Rainbow Bible, The NLT, The BLT lol. You get what I am saying.

I'm not here to argue which translation is the right one because who really knows. All I want to show you is that in the Bible I have been studying for years I am starting to see some interesting things that I thought you might find interesting as well. So let me share one with you for fun.

MATT 18:20

For where two or three are gather together in my name there am I in the midst of them.

Now at first glance you might read that and think who cares. Another Bible verse that means nothing. But if you look closely the writer has concealed many secrets in there and the journey to discovery starts by noticing the position of the letter H throughout the verse that forms a pattern that breaks in one spot to show you an area to focus on among other things. The best way to start to see this stuff is to write the verse in all caps on a piece of paper.

Try it. If not I will stop trying to show you stuff and leave you alone. Promise.

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3 hours ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

Why are you getting so hostile or upset. I'm just sharing a very small piece of a 25 year journey that you know nothing of. I think if I were you I would seek first to understand where people like myself are coming from then to be understood. You might find yourself growing more that way as all of us hold a piece of the truth puzzle not just you. So I tell you what if you are just going to sit here and belittle me and call my truth seeking making lego comparrisson why not just move on? I mean why bother putting me down and that in front of everyone? Where is it getting you or any one else? So I would kindly ask just leave or have a change of heart if you actually find any of this remotely interesting and maybe you find something you never knew where there. 

If anyone else thinks what I am doing is lego comparrisons please chime in right now and then I will know not reveal anything else of my spiritual journey on this forum. Anyone?

Your journey is totally irrelevant to the texts in their original languages, therefore meaningless. Either utilize the original languages or move on. 

cormac

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The translators have concealed many secrets in the versions you’re using, if you want to know what the writers concealed you need to read it in Koine. 
I rather like the KJV, the way the language in it is structured makes it feel meaningfully old, if you will. Epic. 
Professionally I use the NRSV, referentially the KJV omits or simplifies too much useful detail.

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3 hours ago, Piney said:

Who's getting hostile or upset? Who's putting you down? 

I'm just pointing out your playing alphabet Gematria with a bad translation of a worse translation of a book that is irrelevant.

This is a "debate" forum. Perhaps you need a blog. 

Just as an addition one has to take into account that the original Hebrew language differs from the post-Babylonian Captivity which differs from Jesus' time which differs from modern times. This thread might as well be a mashup of modern English into Old English for all the difference it makes. That's sad. 

cormac

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2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Your journey is totally irrelevant to the texts in their original languages, therefore meaningless. Either utilize the original languages or move on. 

cormac

If there is any truth to all the languages coming from an original language and they were confused or should I say encoded by a higher power than every language on the planet having come from the egg of an original language is equally scrambled. So whether I am trying to decipher the original languages the Bible was written in makes little difference and to me is a waste of time. The truth is encoded in all the languages. "If you can't find truth where you are where do you expect to find it."

So, trying to decipher the code or unscramble the egg of my own language is not totally irrelevant at all. In fact, I would say trying to decipher the ancient scriptures is the only approach that makes any sense whatsoever. Because endlessly interpreting them and debating them sure isn't getting us anywhere as I'm sure would agree with that as would others. 

 

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1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

Just as an addition one has to take into account that the original Hebrew language differs from the post-Babylonian Captivity which differs from Jesus' time which differs from modern times. This thread might as well be a mashup of modern English into Old English for all the difference it makes. That's sad. 

cormac

Here's what sad and let me give you an analogy to illustrate my point. Is there any one on this planet who can tell us with certainty when it all began? Let me answer that for you. No. So here is my analogy that plays perfectly to the story of Eden.

I'm a video game maker. I create the world in which I want players to play in complete with historical background for immersion sake. I feed characters they will encounter with memories. I plot their experience to the T and when I am ready they enter the game at whatever point in time I decide. This is just what happen in the creation story. My point is simple for all we know time could have started in 1949 and Adolf Hitler is a lie: LOOK

A  do   L   fh  I  tl   E   r

But you buy into to the history storyline you've been feed. And that's was sad because everyone knows whatever history is true you better believe it's written by the winners.

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50 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

his spirit dwells in us from birth regardless of race, ethnic background or upbringing

why do you need salvation then? 

50 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

The next thing to note is that the key to unlocking the mysteries in the Bible is not to focus on Who Jesus is but what he is (The Word).

Who He is... and what He is  ...not the same thing? 

51 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

We know according to James "Do not merely read the word and so deceive yourself. Do what it says. Any man who reads the word and doesn't do what it says is like a man who looks at "Himself" in a "Mirror" walk away and immediately forgets what he looks like. Here our reflection in the mirror is clearly depicted as the word itself. That indicates to me that we collectively are the word made flesh which ties in nicely to God being the author of life and having written all our stories in his book before any of them came to be (Psalm 139:16). This idea that we collectively are Christ also helps us understand that when Jesus said what you did not do for them you did not do for him. Because they are him. And love thy neighbor as thyself because thy neighbor is thyself.

Are you saying that there's no difference between us and Jesus Christ? 

51 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

Anyhow. When we first read Jesus in the Bible we see an image in our minds eye and perceive him as human. This is the first coming of Christ. But when you start to see he is symbolic or the words themselves you will start to uncover the deeper secrets of the Bible beyond the veil that is to say Christ flesh (Heb. 10:20 By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh). This is the second coming of Christ in your life.

So you do not believe that there will be a literal second advent of Christ? If so, how do you make sense of all the various New Testament references to this very event? here's one: 

9. "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

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15 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

If there is any truth to all the languages coming from an original language and they were confused or should I say encoded by a higher power than every language on the planet having come from the egg of an original language is equally scrambled. So whether I am trying to decipher the original languages the Bible was written in makes little difference and to me is a waste of time. The truth is encoded in all the languages. "If you can't find truth where you are where do you expect to find it."

So, trying to decipher the code or unscramble the egg of my own language is not totally irrelevant at all. In fact, I would say trying to decipher the ancient scriptures is the only approach that makes any sense whatsoever. Because endlessly interpreting them and debating them sure isn't getting us anywhere as I'm sure would agree with that as would others. 
 

There is a peril in assuming a translation has kept nuance - take the English word “love”, the Greeks have five or six distinct concepts (such as love for family, love for a sexual partner, love for a friend etc) with unique words that are translated into English solely as “love”. 

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Just now, ReadTheGreatControversyEGW said:

why do you need salvation then? 

Who He is... and what He is  ...not the same thing? 

Are you saying that there's no difference between us and Jesus Christ? 

So you do not believe that there will be a literal second advent of Christ? If so, how do you make sense of all the various New Testament references to this very event? here's one: 

9. "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

This brings up a great topic. So great job posing it. How long is a day? Is it 33 years or 24 hours? The reason I ask this is because I think when the Bible declares a day and if it is the word of God a day is a day right? And a day is 24 hours plain and simple. So when I read 1 Peter 1:7 that says, "On the day Jesus Christ is revealed to the entire earth" I think it means a day right? Not 33 years as in the life of Christ depicted in the Bible that Christians the world over worship. The other thing I will say is we know from scripture that Jesus fulfilled some o the prophecies but not all. That's a clue. 

Here is what I am saying about sin, separation from God, the need for forgiveness, salvation and the need for a savior. We not are not guilty of sin whatsoever logically or biblically especially the original sin of someone else. Allow me to explain briefly here. Let's start with sin which is what Christianity hinges on. Can you read a book before it is written? Or watch a movie before it is filmed? Or play a game before it is created? No. Clearly the experience is created before we can experience it or as the Bible puts it "All the days ordained for me were written in your book before any of them came to be" (Psalm 139:16). So in the case of your life could you experience it before it was created? No. Why? Because there would be nothing to experience. Now some might say that's absurd. I write my own story out of my own free will. While that sounds great consider this. If we were really writing our own story out of our own free will why can't we remember what we wrote about tomorrow? Surely the author of a story knows what's coming on the next page right? Or have we forgotten the future? The reason we can't remember what we wrote about tomorrow is because we didn't write it. We are only witnessing it in the present. A nice way to say this Biblically and clear up what I am saying about Christ is "You are my witnesses (Plural us) the servant (Singular us collectively) whom I have chosen". Another example is Genesis 5:2 "...God created them male and female and bless them and called their name Adam". Crazy huh? Here we were all one, male and female as Adam. What of Eve then? 

Anyhow my point on sin is that "If God has bound all men to sin and disobedience" how can he damn us to hell for it if he's just at all. The truth he couldn't. He allows us to experience sins and it's consequences without us being held responsible for it. So that's a relief. But this spells problems for Christianity. Because if we are not guilt of sin what do we need forgiveness for or a savior for that matter. What we need is to get to the truth. 

So here is my question:

If God knew us before we were born, knit us together in our mother's womb, made his temple our human bodies where his spirit dwells and kingdom reigns and said he would never leave or forsake us and his word is very near us (Deu 30:14) even to dividing joints and marrow and if I made my bed in the depths of hell or the heights of heaven how is that we are some separated from God? We may feel that deliberately but the truth is the creator and the created are one by Christ own admittion. "Do ye not know that ye are gods. Sons and daughters of the most high?"

And no where in the Bible does it say you have to be a Christian for any of this to be true.

But if what I have told you is true...then why does Christianity say we are guilty of sin, separated from god, and have us worshipping an external savior made to look like mortal man and accept an external ghost from the prince of the power of the air into the temple of our human hearts where God has resided within you from birth to go to an external heaven to worship the external god of this world day and night forever and ever all out of fear of not going to hell.

Perfect love drives out fear. It hard to do but this idea that we just say some magical words and go to heaven is akeen to what the Bible calls "The foolishness of what was preached." We must all "Work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" and having done a lot of that work let me tell you it's quite the journey. Hope  this was thoughtful reply.

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53 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

If there is any truth to all the languages coming from an original language and they were confused or should I say encoded by a higher power than every language on the planet having come from the egg of an original language is equally scrambled. So whether I am trying to decipher the original languages the Bible was written in makes little difference and to me is a waste of time. The truth is encoded in all the languages. "If you can't find truth where you are where do you expect to find it."

So, trying to decipher the code or unscramble the egg of my own language is not totally irrelevant at all. In fact, I would say trying to decipher the ancient scriptures is the only approach that makes any sense whatsoever. Because endlessly interpreting them and debating them sure isn't getting us anywhere as I'm sure would agree with that as would others. 

That is a Biblical claim that is completely baseless. Which means you are just making up something you WANT to be true, ie. a fiction. 

cormac

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31 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

There is a peril in assuming a translation has kept nuance - take the English word “love”, the Greeks have five or six distinct concepts (such as love for family, love for a sexual partner, love for a friend etc) with unique words that are translated into English solely as “love”. 

That's a valid point. But I guess what I am trying to get at is that all the languages are encoded. Let's say we were in war time like World War II and we came across a message that said "Love your enemies". And we thought what could this mean? We could all sit around a table and talk about the 10 different meanings of love, go to the original languages or we could recognize that the text is a war time message with a deeper meaning to it that is being concealed. At we could work on deciphering the text to unicode it. That's what I am trying to say.

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49 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

Here's what sad and let me give you an analogy to illustrate my point. Is there any one on this planet who can tell us with certainty when it all began? Let me answer that for you. No. So here is my analogy that plays perfectly to the story of Eden.

I'm a video game maker. I create the world in which I want players to play in complete with historical background for immersion sake. I feed characters they will encounter with memories. I plot their experience to the T and when I am ready they enter the game at whatever point in time I decide. This is just what happen in the creation story. My point is simple for all we know time could have started in 1949 and Adolf Hitler is a lie: LOOK

A  do   L   fh  I  tl   E   r

But you buy into to the history storyline you've been feed. And that's was sad because everyone knows whatever history is true you better believe it's written by the winners.

In other words you are creating your own fiction. Yeah, we get it. 

cormac

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

In other words you are creating your own fiction. Yeah, we get it. 

cormac

Let me ask you something smart a$$ is truth relative or absolute or both?

Edited by TheOneInsideTheZero
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

That's a valid point. But I guess what I am trying to get at is that all the languages are encoded. Let's say we were in war time like World War II and we came across a message that said "Love your enemies". And we thought what could this mean? We could all sit around a table and talk about the 10 different meanings of love, go to the original languages or we could recognize that the text is a war time message with a deeper meaning to it that is being concealed. At we could work on deciphering the text to unicode it. That's what I am trying to say.

Yes, and “to serve man” was a cookbook, context is always key to comprehension and in this case only one of us is comprehending that the context of the KJV is not “truth” but “accessibility” and therefore so divorced from John of Padua’s original thoughts as to have no relevance in the process of seeking meaning hidden by John, and frankly anything hidden by one of the Translators (and IIRC King James used several) bares no relevance to divine messagery. 

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
Got my J Kings confused
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2 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

Let me ask you something smart a$$ is truth relative or absolute or both?

There is no truth in making up a "code" based on a language that IS NOT original to the texts involved. Even "IF" there were a code it would be in the contemporary language of the times when the texts were originally written. As to the languages being confused that was a reworking of a Mesopotamian theme that had absolutely NOTHING to do with language. Which means you are wrong on both counts. 

cormac

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10 minutes ago, TheOneInsideTheZero said:

Let me ask you something smart a$$ is truth relative or absolute or both?

Truth is an agreed upon reality, it is true that the sky is blue, the validity of the Bible is not an agreed reality therefore cannot be called “truth”. Thats why it’s called faith. 

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4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Yes, and “to serve man” was a cookbook, context is always key to comprehension and in this case only one of us is comprehending that the context of the KJV is not “truth” but “accessibility” and therefore so divorced from John of Padua’s original thoughts as to have no relevance in the process of seeking meaning hidden by John, and frankly anything hidden by one of the Translators (and IIRC King John used several) bares no relevance to divine messagery. 

I believe you meant King James, but your point stands. 

cormac

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