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The Sealed Book of Revelation 5:1: A NEW Theory and a challenging question!


TheOneInsideTheZero

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1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

and finally that the Bible is not a book that was dropped from heaven smack on top of someone

😆

Don't tell Read that. 

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23 hours ago, XenoFish said:

It was nagging my brain since this thread started. A few years ago there was a Bible code craze. I could be wrong, but I think there is a form of magic squares that does the same thing. I'm unsure though.

Bible codes of various types are a real fad... Wikipedia's got a nice page on them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

I can't think of a ****ing thing to write.....😬

I can...

...it depends on what the definition of IS is.  Generations that are coming out of one generation as IS.  Or the generation that is at the time of the utterance of This Generation.  I tend to think the latter. One could be thought of generational as, until that  particular race is extinct.  The other can, and should, be thought of as the generation of the current mindset.  

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16 minutes ago, joc said:

I can...

...it depends on what the definition of IS is.  Generations that are coming out of one generation as IS.  Or the generation that is at the time of the utterance of This Generation.  I tend to think the latter. One could be thought of generational as, until that  particular race is extinct.  The other can, and should, be thought of as the generation of the current mindset.  

"Genera" is the original Koine word. It means a human lifetime. If it was a era it would of been "epoch". 

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5 minutes ago, Piney said:

"Genera" is the original Koine word. It means a human lifetime. If it was a era it would of been "epoch". 

The Cultists will say, Oh but he is talking about a human lifetime...a human lifetime that sees all these things happen...but I digress...

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35 minutes ago, joc said:

The Cultists will say, Oh but he is talking about a human lifetime...a human lifetime that sees all these things happen...but I digress...

A ICOC apologist tried to argue that a "generation" meant a period of a few thousand years but he couldn't read or understand Koine.

Just "NIV".  

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1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

You don't think in ancient times that cities weren't lit at night with torches and contained fires as well as candlelight? And that campgrounds weren't provided for all the visitors coming to Jerusalem from all parts during Passover week?

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. :rolleyes:

Candles weren't around then for everyday use. They used oil lamps.

And you have to be indoors for Passover. Not "camping". They had hostels for visitors.

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3 minutes ago, Piney said:

And you have to be indoors for Passover. Not "camping". They had hostels for visitors.

Aw c'mon, you've never heard of Passover s'mores?

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7 minutes ago, Piney said:

Candles weren't around then for everyday use. They used oil lamps.

 

So cities were lit up at night. Glad you agree.

 

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

And you have to be indoors for Passover. Not "camping". They had hostels for visitors.

 

Jerusalem was a large city for those days. During normal times the population of the city was approx. 250,000. But at Passover time Jewish families came from all over the known world for the Passover celebration, and every Jew within 15 miles was required to attend. By the time of Jesus the Passover population of greater Jerusalem would swell to over 2 ½ million people.

I say “greater Jerusalem” because there simply wasn’t room in the city for all those people. So the areas around the city were thronged with pilgrims camping out, going in and out of the city each day. Villages, like Lazarus’s Bethany, only 2+ miles from Jerusalem, were full.  In other areas the pilgrims simply camped out. The garden of Gethsemane on the western flank of the Mount of Olives between Bethany and Jerusalem was the traditional camping area for the people from Galilee, with thousands of them filling the garden each year.

https://www.catalystnw.org/Articles/1000132390/Catalyst/Catalyst_Network/Resources/Life_of_Christ/April_14_The.aspx#:~:text=By the time of Jesus,over 2 ½ million people.

 

 

I know, I know. It's a BS publication and everything in it are lies. ;)

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Thanks for expressing your opinion about truth. It helps to understand why you make the statements you make. 

Now if you don't mind, based on what you said, I will state my opinion.

 

Your perception of truth is complex and multifaceted. This perception is influenced by your biases and the limitations of your understanding. ;)

 

 

 

Will, 

Your response is coming across as redundant it isn’t adding to our conversation.

Because you are restating/repeating the same information without adding a new perspectives or any depth it doesn’t advance the discussion. 
 

Moving on. 

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9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

So cities were lit up at night. Glad you agree.

 

 

Jerusalem was a large city for those days. During normal times the population of the city was approx. 250,000. But at Passover time Jewish families came from all over the known world for the Passover celebration, and every Jew within 15 miles was required to attend. By the time of Jesus the Passover population of greater Jerusalem would swell to over 2 ½ million people.

I say “greater Jerusalem” because there simply wasn’t room in the city for all those people. So the areas around the city were thronged with pilgrims camping out, going in and out of the city each day. Villages, like Lazarus’s Bethany, only 2+ miles from Jerusalem, were full.  In other areas the pilgrims simply camped out. The garden of Gethsemane on the western flank of the Mount of Olives between Bethany and Jerusalem was the traditional camping area for the people from Galilee, with thousands of them filling the garden each year.

https://www.catalystnw.org/Articles/1000132390/Catalyst/Catalyst_Network/Resources/Life_of_Christ/April_14_The.aspx#:~:text=By the time of Jesus,over 2 ½ million people.

 

 

I know, I know. It's a BS publication and everything in it are lies. ;)

 

 

 

 

That's a devotional site. Not a historical one and I will leave it at that. 

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15 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

So cities were lit up at night. Glad you agree.

 

 

Jerusalem was a large city for those days. During normal times the population of the city was approx. 250,000. But at Passover time Jewish families came from all over the known world for the Passover celebration, and every Jew within 15 miles was required to attend. By the time of Jesus the Passover population of greater Jerusalem would swell to over 2 ½ million people.

I say “greater Jerusalem” because there simply wasn’t room in the city for all those people. So the areas around the city were thronged with pilgrims camping out, going in and out of the city each day. Villages, like Lazarus’s Bethany, only 2+ miles from Jerusalem, were full.  In other areas the pilgrims simply camped out. The garden of Gethsemane on the western flank of the Mount of Olives between Bethany and Jerusalem was the traditional camping area for the people from Galilee, with thousands of them filling the garden each year.

https://www.catalystnw.org/Articles/1000132390/Catalyst/Catalyst_Network/Resources/Life_of_Christ/April_14_The.aspx#:~:text=By the time of Jesus,over 2 ½ million people.

 

 

I know, I know. It's a BS publication and everything in it are lies. ;)

 

 

 

 

Catalyst Network is actually considered a cult. 

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18 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

So cities were lit up at night. Glad you agree.

 

 

Jerusalem was a large city for those days. During normal times the population of the city was approx. 250,000. But at Passover time Jewish families came from all over the known world for the Passover celebration, and every Jew within 15 miles was required to attend. By the time of Jesus the Passover population of greater Jerusalem would swell to over 2 ½ million people.

I say “greater Jerusalem” because there simply wasn’t room in the city for all those people. So the areas around the city were thronged with pilgrims camping out, going in and out of the city each day. Villages, like Lazarus’s Bethany, only 2+ miles from Jerusalem, were full.  In other areas the pilgrims simply camped out. The garden of Gethsemane on the western flank of the Mount of Olives between Bethany and Jerusalem was the traditional camping area for the people from Galilee, with thousands of them filling the garden each year.

https://www.catalystnw.org/Articles/1000132390/Catalyst/Catalyst_Network/Resources/Life_of_Christ/April_14_The.aspx#:~:text=By the time of Jesus,over 2 ½ million people.

 

 

I know, I know. It's a BS publication and everything in it are lies. ;)

 

 

 

 

@eight bits Look at the link. It's the ICOC in the UK but they are semi-underground with a different name after getting banned. 

A little perusing took me right to Disciples Today. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's a devotional site. Not a historical one and I will leave it at that. 

 

10 minutes ago, Piney said:

@eight bits Look at the link. It's the ICOC in the UK but they are semi-underground with a different name after getting banned. 

A little perusing took me right to Disciples Today. 

 

Okay, let's see. Let's put aside the BS publication you're so worried about :D and look at it from the perspective of common sense. 

In the time of Jesus, the Jews were scattered all over the known world. Is that something you don't agree with? 

At that time, the Jews going to Jerusalem to attend festivals was well established. Is that something you don't agree with? 

At the Passover, there would have been millions of Jews there. Some of them, the wealthiest of course, would have been housed. But the vast majority would have camped. Is that something you don't agree with?

All of those things, as a matter of common sense, are logical to accept as being factual. But I'm pretty sure you won't agree with that. :rolleyes: Which is okay. You're entitled to your opinion. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

 

Okay, let's see. Let's put aside the BS publication you're so worried about :D and look at it from the perspective of common sense. 

In the time of Jesus, the Jews were scattered all over the known world. Is that something you don't agree with? 

At that time, the Jews going to Jerusalem to attend festivals was well established. Is that something you don't agree with? 

At the Passover, there would have been millions of Jews there. Some of them, the wealthiest of course, would have been housed. But the vast majority would have camped. Is that something you don't agree with?

All of those things, as a matter of common sense, are logical to accept as being factual. But I'm pretty sure you won't agree with that. :rolleyes: Which is okay. You're entitled to your opinion. 

They went to Jerusalem, but they weren't "required" and you have to be indoors for Passover. But not in Jerusalem. 

Passover was celebrated in Alexandria, Corinth, Rome and other cities too. Jerusalem wasn't the only place with a Synagogue. They were all over "the known world".

 

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10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

At the Passover, there would have been millions of Jews there.

HI Will

Might want to check your numbers. 

The population of Palestine in Jesus' day was approximately 500,000 to 600,000 (about that of Vermont, Boston, or Jerusalem today). About 18,000 of these residents were clergy, priests and Levites. Jerusalem was a city of some 55,000, but during major feasts, could swell to 180,000.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-59/life-times-of-jesus-of-nazareth-did-you-know.html&ved=2ahUKEwjt7fag48-GAxXXIDQIHV8bBrIQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2kdTufGkMJQ4S_0O4EoL4W

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1 minute ago, Piney said:

They went to Jerusalem, but they weren't "required" and you have to be indoors for Passover. But not in Jerusalem. 

Passover was celebrated in Alexandria, Corinth, Rome and other cities too. Jerusalem wasn't the only place with a Synagogue. They were all over "the known world".

 

 

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

HI Will

Might want to check your numbers. 

The population of Palestine in Jesus' day was approximately 500,000 to 600,000 (about that of Vermont, Boston, or Jerusalem today). About 18,000 of these residents were clergy, priests and Levites. Jerusalem was a city of some 55,000, but during major feasts, could swell to 180,000.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-59/life-times-of-jesus-of-nazareth-did-you-know.html&ved=2ahUKEwjt7fag48-GAxXXIDQIHV8bBrIQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2kdTufGkMJQ4S_0O4EoL4W

 

But the celebration at Jerusalem and attending the Passover there was central to being Jewish in those days. The temple being the focal point of the Jewish people similar to Mecca being the focus of Muslims today. It was the same kind of pilgrimage for the Jews as it is for the Muslims.

So you said Piney, that you didn't have to be indoors in Jerusalem at the Passover. Then that means people were camping. 

Not sure why this is such a controversy that people in ancient times camped. Probably just like people do in modern times. And that they camped in the surrounding areas of Jerusalem during the Jewish festivals. Thanks Sheri. :lol:

 

 

 

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It's pretty obvious that during the time of Jesus's life, Jerusalem, at the Passover, would have been lit up at night and people would have been camping in the vicinity.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

 

But the celebration at Jerusalem and attending the Passover there was central to being Jewish in those days. The temple being the focal point of the Jewish people similar to Mecca being the focus of Muslims today. It was the same kind of pilgrimage for the Jews as it is for the Muslims.

So you said Piney, that you didn't have to be indoors in Jerusalem at the Passover. Then that means people were camping. 

Not sure why this is such a controversy that people in ancient times camped. Probably just like people do in modern times. And that they camped in the surrounding areas of Jerusalem during the Jewish festivals. Thanks Sheri. :lol:

Passover is not a "festival". It's a solemn meal held indoors. A Pigrimage to Jerusalem is something else entirely. 

I've been to many Passover meals. I grew up surrounded by Jews who outnumbered us in Quaker schools 5 to 1. You don't even know any Jews and you don't know jack about Jewish history.  

Want me to start tearing into your book of American bull**** again? I'm in the mood.

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10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's pretty obvious that during the time of Jesus's life, Jerusalem, at the Passover, would have been lit up at night and people would have been camping in the vicinity.

 

 

bull****! 

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2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Passover is not a "festival". It's a solemn meal held indoors. A Pigrimage to Jerusalem is something else entirely. 

I've been to many Passover meals. I grew up surrounded by Jews who outnumbered us in Quaker schools 5 to 1. You don't even know any Jews and you don't know jack about Jewish history.  

Want me to start tearing into your book of American bull**** again? I'm in the mood.

 

1 minute ago, Piney said:

bull****! 

 

Relax Piney. It's not the end of the world. You've got a lot more important things to be occupying your time with. You always seem to get all in a knot too often. Considering what you've been dealing with recently, I'm going to let you have the last words and hope that you'll have a good night's sleep and wake up in a good mood. You probably deserve it.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

 

But the celebration at Jerusalem and attending the Passover there was central to being Jewish in those days. The temple being the focal point of the Jewish people similar to Mecca being the focus of Muslims today. It was the same kind of pilgrimage for the Jews as it is for the Muslims.

So you said Piney, that you didn't have to be indoors in Jerusalem at the Passover. Then that means people were camping. 

Not sure why this is such a controversy that people in ancient times camped. Probably just like people do in modern times. And that they camped in the surrounding areas of Jerusalem during the Jewish festivals. Thanks Sheri. :lol:

 

 

 

HI Will

I didn't say anything about camping and just gave you population numbers as a response to your statement of millions. 

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4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

 

Relax Piney. It's not the end of the world. You've got a lot more important things to be occupying your time with. You always seem to get all in a knot too often. Considering what you've been dealing with recently, I'm going to let you have the last words and hope that you'll have a good night's sleep and wake up in a good mood. You probably deserve it.

 

 

Your twisting my words. Study some actual Jewish culture. Hang out with them. They are actually more fun than Christians. 

Sleep? What's that? Good mood? I lost that ability on December 7th. I know grief. That's it. 

 

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2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I didn't say anything about camping 

 

Camping is what the discussion has been about for the last couple of hours Jay.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Piney said:

I know grief. That's it. 

 

My condolences. I don't envy you. I just want you to know that something tells me you'll get through it.

 

 

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