Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Was the Golden Fleece mentioned in Greek mythology real?


Kittens Are Jerks

Recommended Posts

Was the Golden Fleece mentioned in Greek mythology real?

The story of Jason and the Argonauts is one of the most famous stories in Greek mythology. It is a classic quest story, and the goal at the end of the quest is the Golden Fleece. This is what Jason had been sent to obtain from the ancient land of Colchis in what is now Georgia. But was the Golden Fleece real, like certain other things from Greek mythology have turned out to be?

https://greekreporter.com/2024/06/06/golden-fleece-greek-mythology/

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very cool! Id not read so deep into the origin of that myth before. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The best modern translation of the Argonautica is Richard Hunter’s Jason and the Golden Fleece, published in 2009 by Oxford University Press. 

Hunter is one of the premier scholars of Apollonius of Rhodes, consequently his notes are satisfyingly very informative.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read somewhere the Golden Fleece might just have been a cleave way to trap and hold gold dust and specks from fast moving rivers and steams using a sheep’s wool

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/7/2024 at 9:09 AM, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Was the Golden Fleece mentioned in Greek mythology real?

The story of Jason and the Argonauts is one of the most famous stories in Greek mythology. It is a classic quest story, and the goal at the end of the quest is the Golden Fleece. This is what Jason had been sent to obtain from the ancient land of Colchis in what is now Georgia. But was the Golden Fleece real, like certain other things from Greek mythology have turned out to be?

https://greekreporter.com/2024/06/06/golden-fleece-greek-mythology/

Maybe amber.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I read somewhere the Golden Fleece might just have been a cleave way to trap and hold gold dust and specks from fast moving rivers and steams using a sheep’s wool

I’ve heard that too, seems too simple.

Amber. From a Black Sea hold…Helios the God, the Sun, Medea…the sorceress…the Sun cult is the clue. They could get gold from numerous sources but amber, the Son of the Sun…the story of the formation of the Hellespont…when Helle falls off the Sun..the golden sheep…the fall of PHaethon, there is a same Hellespont..Helle of the Vistula Lagoon. THAT imo is where the original legend originates. Guarded by a dragon. Like the golden apples of the Hesperides.

No I don’t think a Golden Fleece is an actual thing,  I think it’s a total metaphor for taking some sort of control of the amber route.
The gold masks of the Grave Circles, if gold is meant, shows us a myth to trap gold must be very early, prior 1600BC…gold was abundant and doesn’t explain the inclusions of Helle amd other points that I mentioned which show connections to the Baltic.

Edited by The Puzzler
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Maybe amber.

From what I remember, most of the northern amber came south around the coast, to what today is Spain, but also overland through what today is Poland, and Austria, to the Adriatic coast. I dont think they much used the Danube route till around Byzantine times. For amber trading anyway. More customers reached faster the western route.

Though its an interesting take on the myth.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/7/2024 at 4:52 PM, Unusual Tournament said:

I read somewhere the Golden Fleece might just have been a cleave way to trap and hold gold dust and specks from fast moving rivers and steams using a sheep’s wool

The TV Discovery Channel's series titled Gold Rush has been demonstrating that mats (modern equivalent of the mythical Golden Fleece) are still used, worldwide, in sluices to catch gold particles.  

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, atalante said:

The TV Discovery Channel's series titled Gold Rush has been demonstrating that mats (modern equivalent of the mythical Golden Fleece) are still used, worldwide, in sluices to catch gold particles.  

HI Atalante

Yes has seen mats in goldsmith shops used the catch filings and have them both on the work surface and the floor. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I’ve heard that too, seems too simple.

Amber. From a Black Sea hold…Helios the God, the Sun, Medea…the sorceress…the Sun cult is the clue. They could get gold from numerous sources but amber, the Son of the Sun…the story of the formation of the Hellespont…when Helle falls off the Sun..the golden sheep…the fall of PHaethon, there is a same Hellespont..Helle of the Vistula Lagoon. THAT imo is where the original legend originates. Guarded by a dragon. Like the golden apples of the Hesperides.

No I don’t think a Golden Fleece is an actual thing,  I think it’s a total metaphor for taking some sort of control of the amber route.
The gold masks of the Grave Circles, if gold is meant, shows us a myth to trap gold must be very early, prior 1600BC…gold was abundant and doesn’t explain the inclusions of Helle amd other points that I mentioned which show connections to the Baltic.

I gave you a like because I’m impressed with your over reach. A Golden Fleece, to me at least, in no way, shape or form even comes close to amber

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I gave you a like because I’m impressed with your over reach. A Golden Fleece, to me at least, in no way, shape or form even comes close to amber

OK, well thanks for the like. I know it’s a bit over reached however, for similar reasons I mentioned, scarcity…it’s not totally over-looked by scholars..

Some scholars think that the Golden Fleece was actually amber, a commodity so valued in ancient times that the Greek peoples decided to unite—for the first time in their history—in order to acquire it. Others have considered the Golden Fleece to be a symbol of fertility and agricultural prosperity.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

From what I remember, most of the northern amber came south around the coast, to what today is Spain, but also overland through what today is Poland, and Austria, to the Adriatic coast. I dont think they much used the Danube route till around Byzantine times. For amber trading anyway. More customers reached faster the western route.

Though its an interesting take on the myth.

Tbh I’ve never really heard of it coming around the coast via Spain just literally from Poland to Adriatic..I’ll look into the more Western trade of it. I always found it interesting though that Tacitus said the language of the Aesti, who found the amber, was more like the people of Britain than local, so maybe this could lead to an answer to that.

But that’s not my real point here, what I know is the amber trails spread out from main stops on the main Amber Road to Med…the pic shows just German trails off the main route…so to me, I don’t see why not a trail spread like this towards the Carpathian, spreading an arm towards Colchis, where the Greeks may have wanted to access it, rather than from the other Italic side…at this Mycenaean timeframe.
The pic is just offshoots from one road point in Germany. We’re there more stops that allowed amber to be distributed from other places than one road.

IMG_1650.png

Edited by The Puzzler
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/7/2024 at 9:09 AM, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Was the Golden Fleece mentioned in Greek mythology real?

The story of Jason and the Argonauts is one of the most famous stories in Greek mythology. It is a classic quest story, and the goal at the end of the quest is the Golden Fleece. This is what Jason had been sent to obtain from the ancient land of Colchis in what is now Georgia. But was the Golden Fleece real, like certain other things from Greek mythology have turned out to be?

https://greekreporter.com/2024/06/06/golden-fleece-greek-mythology/

Oh come on, they solved this ages ago.  It isn't even a mystery.  People used to bury sheep fleeces rich with lanolin in streams to catch particles of alluvial gold in the lanolin.  They used to do it in Georgia and other places.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/8/2024 at 1:52 AM, Unusual Tournament said:

I read somewhere the Golden Fleece might just have been a cleave way to trap and hold gold dust and specks from fast moving rivers and steams using a sheep’s wool

It's mentioned in the article.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DieChecker said:

From what I remember, most of the northern amber came south around the coast, to what today is Spain, but also overland through what today is Poland, and Austria, to the Adriatic coast. I dont think they much used the Danube route till around Byzantine times. For amber trading anyway. More customers reached faster the western route.

Though its an interesting take on the myth.

They used the Amber Road since before the Bronze Age. That was the main route. 

Amber can also be found in Sicily though.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also personally think the Black Sea area has been a route to and from the Baltic excluding amber routes, even beforehand.

Snorri tells us…this is all in Magnus Magnussons book Vikings, which I can’t link because this photo is from the book I’ve got….but anyway, point is…Asaland, the land of the Aesir, the sacrificial cult of Odin…came from East of the Black Sea to Sweden…so to me, that’s quite interesting.

IMG_1813.jpeg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Oh come on, they solved this ages ago.  It isn't even a mystery.  People used to bury sheep fleeces rich with lanolin in streams to catch particles of alluvial gold in the lanolin.  They used to do it in Georgia and other places.

Mate, I dunno, but did you read it…?

There is obviously grounds for another side.

Mythology is not history, Haven’t you learnt that here by now. A Golden Fleece does not by any means mean a sheep’s fleece used for catching gold. That’s all.

Some scholars think that the Golden Fleece was actually amber, a commodity so valued in ancient times that the Greek peoples decided to unite—for the first time in their history—in order to acquire it. Others have considered the Golden Fleece to be a symbol of fertility and agricultural prosperity.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Let’s have a look at the article…so the Sun realm of Helios..

Jason and the Golden Fleece is one of the oldest
and most famous myths in the western world. The ancient
Greeks thought that the great kingdom of the sun existed
far to the east, where Helios, their god of the sun, began
his daily journey through the heavens. At least as early as
the eighth century B.C., they viewed Colchis as that
kingdom. 
 

BUT I must say this article is pretty convincing of the Gold theory, so yeah…possibly amber, probably gold. According to most evidence.

Eighth century BC…seems quite late for a so called Mycenaean adventure.

Edited by The Puzzler
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Piney said:

They used the Amber Road since before the Bronze Age. That was the main route. 

Amber can also be found in Sicily though.

The Baltic Sea was a popular source of European amber for several centuries, most notably for Prussia. The amber used to create the Amber Room was mined there. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

The Baltic Sea was a popular source of European amber for several centuries, most notably for Prussia. The amber used to create the Amber Room was mined there. 

And the Prusi and Curonians controlled the main port. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Tbh I’ve never really heard of it coming around the coast via Spain just literally from Poland to Adriatic..I’ll look into the more Western trade of it.

New research reveals that Baltic amber was transported to the most westerly region of the continent more than 5,000 years ago

https://arkeonews.net/new-research-reveals-that-baltic-amber-was-transported-to-the-most-westerly-region-of-the-continent-more-than-5000-years-ago/

“We present the standard infrared spectroscopy analysis of an amber bead of Baltic origin found at the Cova del Frare site in a context dated between 3634-3363 cal BC”.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

New research reveals that Baltic amber was transported to the most westerly region of the continent more than 5,000 years ago

https://arkeonews.net/new-research-reveals-that-baltic-amber-was-transported-to-the-most-westerly-region-of-the-continent-more-than-5000-years-ago/

“We present the standard infrared spectroscopy analysis of an amber bead of Baltic origin found at the Cova del Frare site in a context dated between 3634-3363 cal BC”.

That’s awesome, I didn’t realize the Baltic Sea trade started so early. I only knew of  Baltic amber’s post Renaissance popularity  throughout Western Europe. It was considered a prized material at European courts.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

That’s awesome, I didn’t realize the Baltic Sea trade started so early. I only knew of  Baltic amber’s post Renaissance popularity  throughout Western Europe. It was considered a prized material at European courts.

Even the Ancient Egyptians had amber from the Baltic.

But amber showing up this early in Iberia means trade routes existed long before Germanic and Celtic tribes came into the picture.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

My post above…shows amber went via the Black Sea, Colchis…the original rebut of this topic… ty….thank you. ty

So, we write ty as Thankyou in messages….this rep today says who is Ty?…My main man at work is Naresh, this rep is like  “Are you Ty?”…I suddenly get the mistake, Naresh sent a message ending in ty…the rep thinks it’s his name… from Naresh from Kathmandu, Nepal…the Pub will be lost without him…”that’s really where I’m going to”…disciplined, orders the right stuff, barista, cook, does the roster.  Who knows a Tibetan person..?  Me. He’s  a top bloke. Me and Naresh been at Pub near 4 years, longer than anyone else, seen prob over 200 people come and go, some word called integrity in the dictionary I think.

Ok, so the Amber Route to the Black Sea was existent…but was amber coming to Greek area s from Colchis in the Mycenaeans times….would be what I’d look at next.

Edited by The Puzzler
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.