Just one quarter of British people now think the UK should be outside the European Union

[Destination Unknown]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Most likely the reason they voted the way they did, but it was probably an uninformed or emotionally motivated vote.   Look at the fallout.   If you deny that we are constantly being bombarded by emotionally manipulative "information" and "news" then you are not paying attention.

That's just typical Remainer arrogance right there, and just demonstrates perfectly the very reason why Remain LOST in the first place.

Edward Heath took us into the EEC unilaterally, there was no public joining vote, just a vote to remain later.

John Major unilaterally signed us up to Maastricht, which was the foundation of the EU. We were told it was just a tidying up exercise of existing treaties, not the political monstrosity that it became. Where was the massive public scrutiny of that?

Also, Gordon Brown unilaterally signed us up to 'Lisbon', despite Labour's 2005 manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the new 'European Union Reform Treaty' ('Treaty of Lisbon'). Again, where was the massive public scrutiny of that?

PM David Cameron even spent £9 million pounds of UK taxpayers money on a blatantly one-sided pro-EU propaganda booklet which was sent to every single household in the land, so that was "emotionally manipulative information" - from the Remain side, so yes, I am paying attention. 🤦

We had more information and public debate from both sides on Brexit than we ever did with treaties signed by Edward Heath, John Major and Gordon Brown put together, and if you deny that then you are the one not paying attention, so don't give me that typically arrogant Remoaner claim that "we were uninformed" nonsense, because I can blow that argument right out of the water.

Edited June 14 by Destination Unknown

[+Desertrat56]

15 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

That's just typical Remainer arrogance right there, and just demonstrates perfectly the very reason why Remain LOST in the first place.

Edward Heath took us into the EEC unilaterally, there was no public joining vote, just a vote to remain later.

John Major unilaterally signed us up to Maastricht, which was the foundation of the EU. We were told it was just a tidying up exercise of existing treaties, not the political monstrosity that it became. Where was the massive public scrutiny of that?

Also, Gordon Brown unilaterally signed us up to 'Lisbon', despite Labour's 2005 manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on the new 'European Union Reform Treaty' ('Treaty of Lisbon'). Again, where was the massive public scrutiny of that?

PM David Cameron even spent £9 million pounds of UK taxpayers money on a blatantly one-sided pro-EU propaganda booklet which was sent to every single household in the land telling us all exactly what voting to leave the EU would mean, so that was "emotionally manipulative information" - from the Remain side, so yes, I am paying attention. 🤦

We had more information and public debate from both sides on Brexit than we ever did with treaties signed by Edward Heath, John Major and Gordon Brown put together, so don't give me that typically arrogant Remoaner claim that "we were uninformed" nonsense, because I can blow that argument right out of the water.

I don't live in the UK so I don't care if you stay or leave the EU, my comment was more global, people in the first world countries across the globe are constantly bombarded with political manipulations, aimed at keeping people emotional and afraid, angry at "the other" which changes daily.   Wake up.   There was a reason the U.S. constitution and government was desigened the way it was, because the people who created it did not want our country to fall into the same traps as the british, yet here we are 200 years later in the exact same position as you all, just with a different perspective about the world (smaller, less educated perspective).   Education has been eliminated in both countries (and the other UK children countries) so if you want your children educated as well as your great grandparents were you have to do it yourself.

[Destination Unknown]

22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't live in the UK so I don't care if you stay or leave the EU, my comment was more global, people in the first world countries across the globe are constantly bombarded with political manipulations, aimed at keeping people emotional and afraid, angry at "the other" which changes daily.   Wake up.   There was a reason the U.S. constitution and government was desigened the way it was, because the people who created it did not want our country to fall into the same traps as the british, yet here we are 200 years later in the exact same position as you all, just with a different perspective about the world (smaller, less educated perspective).   Education has been eliminated in both countries (and the other UK children countries) so if you want your children educated as well as your great grandparents were you have to do it yourself.

No it wasn't. Your comment was more "Brexit voters were uninformed", you even said it was, so don't start backtracking now because I've ripped your argument to shreds.

So you don't live in the UK and "apparently" don't care if we stay or leave the EU, but yet you've shown an obvious anti-Brexit pro-EU bias on this very thread.

So you live in the USA then? With all due respect, it didn't work out too well for the last American that came over here poking his nose into British affairs and talking down to the British people, like you seem to be doing. See comment #11 on this very thread.

Tell me something. As an American, would you be happy for a US President (Trump for instance) to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with the likes of Canada and Mexico, together with a bunch of Central and South American countries such as Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela, with its headquarters where all of your trade, agricultural and industrial policies are made based in Santiago, and of course open borders, without you ever being given a vote on it - because that's essentially what happened in the UK when John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992, without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "Project"? 🤔

Edited June 14 by Destination Unknown

[+Desertrat56]

22 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

No it wasn't. Your comment was more "Brexit voters were uninformed", you even said it was, so don't start backtracking now because I've ripped your argument to shreds.

So you don't live in the UK and "apparently" don't care if we stay or leave the EU, but yet you've shown an obvious anti-Brexit pro-EU bias on this very thread.

So you live in the USA then? With all due respect, it didn't work out too well for the last American that came over here poking his nose into British affairs and talking down to the British people, like you seem to be doing. See comment #11 on this very thread.

Tell me something. As an American, would you be happy for a US President (Trump for instance) to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with the likes of Canada and Mexico, together with a bunch of Central and South American countries such as Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela, with its headquarters where all of your trade, agricultural and industrial policies are made based in Santiago, and of course open borders, without you ever being given a vote on it - because that's essentially what happened in the UK when John Major took it upon himself to sign 'The Maastricht Treaty' (the foundation of the EU) in 1992, without him even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of this European political "Project"? 🤔

That is the thing, a U.S. president cannot unilaterally sign into any political union with any other country.  Congress and the Senate have to draft a bill and vote on it and they are so divisive in both groups that nothing ever gets done.  The president can sign certain temporary decrees and he has the deciding vote when the senate and congress don't agree, but most of our presidents have no idea what is going on in congress, they are figureheads.  The last president we had that did anything useful was Nixon and they took him out because he didn't play their game (they being the corporations that own our politicians - the same thing that goes on in your country and every first world country that depends on corporate money).

You didn't address any of my arguments because we are arguing different things, you are myopic in your beliefs about politcs.

[Destination Unknown]

4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

That is the thing, a U.S. president cannot unilaterally sign into any political union with any other country.  Congress and the Senate have to draft a bill and vote on it and they are so divisive in both groups that nothing ever gets done.  The president can sign certain temporary decrees and he has the deciding vote when the senate and congress don't agree, but most of our presidents have no idea what is going on in congress, they are figureheads.  The last president we had that did anything useful was Nixon and they took him out because he didn't play their game (they being the corporations that own our politicians - the same thing that goes on in your country and every first world country that depends on corporate money).

You didn't address any of my arguments because we are arguing different things, you are myopic in your beliefs about politcs.

We're not arguing different things at all. You deliberately chose to poke your nose into what is an obvious anti-Brexit article just from the main heading of the thread, and despite what you claim, you've shown a blatant anti-Brexit bias, even arrogantly claiming that those that voted to Leave the EU were, quote: "uninformed", so you're not addressing any of my arguments, deliberately avoiding the question again, whilst preaching to others about how "great" your constitution is because being taken into a political union with other countries could never happen in the US anyway.

So on the one hand you're condemning Leave voters as being "uninformed" just for voting to Leave a political union with other countries that was imposed on us without us even being asked, but yet you're praising the US constitution because the exact same thing could never happen in the US anyway. And you can't see the irony.!!

I don't know enough about how your politics works, which is why I don't go poking my nose into US affairs, but seeing as you are poking your nose into UK politics, the way I described it is how it happened in the UK, we were unilaterally signed up to a political union without even being asked, so again, "hypothetically", as an American, would you be happy for a US President (Trump for instance) to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with the likes of Canada and Mexico, together with a bunch of Central and South American countries such as Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela, with its headquarters where all of your trade, agricultural and industrial policies are made based in Santiago, and of course open borders, without you ever being given a vote on it - Yes or No?

Edited June 15 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:46 PM, Destination Unknown said:

That doesn`t look like only one quarter wanting to stay out.

Pinocchio @pellinore, your nose is growing once again!

[+Desertrat56]

21 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

We're not arguing different things at all. You deliberately chose to poke your nose into what is an obvious anti-Brexit article just from the main heading of the thread, and despite what you claim, you've shown a blatant anti-Brexit bias, even arrogantly claiming that those that voted to Leave the EU were, quote: "uninformed", so you're not addressing any of my arguments, deliberately avoiding the question again, whilst preaching to others about how "great" your constitution is because being taken into a political union with other countries could never happen in the US anyway.

So on the one hand you're condemning Leave voters as being "uninformed" just for voting to Leave a political union with other countries that was imposed on us without us even being asked, but yet you're praising the US constitution because the exact same thing could never happen in the US anyway. And you can't see the irony.!!

I don't know enough about how your politics works, which is why I don't go poking my nose into US affairs, but seeing as you are poking your nose into UK politics, the way I described it is how it happened in the UK, we were unilaterally signed up to a political union without even being asked, so again, "hypothetically", as an American, would you be happy for a US President (Trump for instance) to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with the likes of Canada and Mexico, together with a bunch of Central and South American countries such as Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela, with its headquarters where all of your trade, agricultural and industrial policies are made based in Santiago, and of course open borders, without you ever being given a vote on it - Yes or No?

I am condemning all voters as being uninformed and emotionally manipulated.   The Leave group just happened to be the largest group.   Like I said before I don't care about you all  one way or the other, but I do see obvious lying by the "leave" manipulators.   It is going on in all the first world countries, especially the ones that belong to the UK (including the U.S.).

And your hypothetical question does not apply as it was not just one person in the UK who designed and pushed Brexit.  You are looking for a scapegoat, and I feel bad that you all can't vote out a prime minister like we can a president, who also has a limit of two terms.   The majority of your parliment, for what ever reason (blackmail, money, or other coercion) has to have gone along with it as well.

[Destination Unknown]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I am condemning all voters as being uninformed and emotionally manipulated.   The Leave group just happened to be the largest group.   Like I said before I don't care about you all  one way or the other, but I do see obvious lying by the "leave" manipulators.   It is going on in all the first world countries, especially the ones that belong to the UK (including the U.S.).

And your hypothetical question does not apply as it was not just one person in the UK who designed and pushed Brexit.  You are looking for a scapegoat, and I feel bad that you all can't vote out a prime minister like we can a president, who also has a limit of two terms.   The majority of your parliment, for what ever reason (blackmail, money, or other coercion) has to have gone along with it as well.

No, you're specifically singling out and condemning "Leave voters"as being "uninformed", you never once mentioned "Remain" voters, not once, so stop trying to backtrack, because you've picked on the wrong person for that.

You're also singling out the Leave "manipulators" as lying, whilst not once mentioning the blatant lies that were thrown at us by the Remain "manipulators".

Blatant lies such as Osborne's "Emergency Budget" and the immediate and prolonged recession that was supposed to happen just for merely voting to Leave the EU, not to mention our super-gonorrhoea. How about Cameron's utterly ludicrous claim that ISIS would be cheering for Brexit for some unknown reason?

Those were all blatant lies spewed out by the Remain side, all deliberately designed to BULLY us into voting the "correct" way, so don't start talking to me about being emotionally manipulated by the Leave side pal, because your flawed psychobabble won't wash with me.

I know my hypothetical question doesn’t apply to the USA, which is why I specifically said "hypothetically", and your refusal to even hypothetically put yourself into the shoes of the British people you're condemning for voting to Leave a European political union that nobody ever even voted to join in the first place and giving a "hypothetical" answer speaks volumes, so I'll just answer for you, because "NO", you would NOT be happy for a US President to unilaterally sign the USA into a political union with a bunch of Central and South American countries, so psychoanalyse THAT.

And I wasn't even talking about who pushed Brexit, I was talking about John Major, who pushed us into the EU in the first place without him ever even having the decency to ask the British people whether we even wanted to be a part of a European political union.

And with all due respect, before you start feeling bad for us for "apparently" not being able to vote out a Prime Minister (our Parliament can call a vote of no confidence in the PM by the way), you might want to take a look at your own President, who you lot should never have even elected in the first place, (although, to be fair, there were also quite a few dead voters that suddenly managed to rise from their graves to cast their votes after counting stopped overnight and recommenced again the following day).

It's frightening how you lot still allow the senile old duffer to have the launch codes for your nuclear missiles, so don't start preaching to me about how superior your political system is.

Edited June 16 by Destination Unknown

[Duke Wellington]

While Farage is going to give the Tories a mauling, he may if his party continues to increase in popularity give the Labour Party one too.

You never know, stranger things have happened! We could be close to getting two out of three. First leave the EU, second stop immigration, third we need someone with the brains and foresight to get hold of our economy and double our GDP.

[pellinore]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:46 PM, itsnotoutthere said:

What fallout. The only real fallout has been the relentless moaning by those that lost the referendum. Listening to remainers you would get the misplaced idea that the EU was a utopian paradise when in actual fact a cursory look at European news outlets prove that isn't the case, and in some respects things are actually worse within the EU. Funny, but I not noticed any change in lifestyle since 2016, the shops are still selling the same stuff, I've not been at all inconvenienced at the airport, I can't think of thing that's impacted things noticeably.

Maybe that's a wakeup call that you need to get out more.

[itsnotoutthere]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

Maybe that's a wakeup call that you need to get out more.

Or maybe you need to stop believing everything the BBC & Guardian keep telling you.