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Supreme court votes 6-3 to strike down federal ‘bump stocks’ ban – live


Still Waters

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The supreme court has ruled 6-3 in favor of a challenge to a federal ban on gun ‘bump stock’ devices.

A bump stock is an accessory that allows semiautomatic weapons to fire like machine guns.

The vote was 6-3, with liberal justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson dissenting.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jun/14/supreme-court-clarence-thomas-trip-updates

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It does ruin the barrel of the gun when used excessively.

Did help the Las Vegas gunman kill more people than he could have without the accessory.

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I was for upholding the ban personally.  Guns are not toys and this product is either for use as a toy or for what it was used for in Las Vegas, which is illegal.  My opinion.

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42 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I was for upholding the ban personally.  Guns are not toys and this product is either for use as a toy or for what it was used for in Las Vegas, which is illegal.  My opinion.

The bigger legal issue is that fully automatic guns were defined in a specific way by Congress and the ATF, who is unelected, decided to change the definition to get bump stocks treated the same way as fully automatic guns.

Ultimately do we want unelected people in various government agencies to have the power to unilaterally change definitions and defacto create or change laws by that power.

Also didn't help that the ATF said for years that bump stocks were legal and it was fine to own them till it wasn't and now owning one could make you a felon with serious jail time and fines attached along with losing certain rights.

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Apparently adding a bump stock doesnt turn a pistol into a machine gun.

I think the law in question was to outlaw actual machine guns.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

The bigger legal issue is that fully automatic guns were defined in a specific way by Congress and the ATF, who is unelected, decided to change the definition to get bump stocks treated the same way as fully automatic guns.

Ultimately do we want unelected people in various government agencies to have the power to unilaterally change definitions and defacto create or change laws by that power.

Also didn't help that the ATF said for years that bump stocks were legal and it was fine to own them till it wasn't and now owning one could make you a felon with serious jail time and fines attached along with losing certain rights.

I agree with you and the supreme court.  this ban did not follow proper protocol.  Trump should have just signed an executive order since congress would never have the will to act here.  Bump stocks should be banned.

Edited by OverSword
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53 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I agree with you and the supreme court.  this ban did not follow proper protocol.  Trump should have just signed an executive order since congress would never have the will to act here.  Bump stocks should be banned.

Even an executive order wouldn't be enough and it would require Congress to change the definition of machine gun.

Even then the bump stock isn't like the lightning link, which is outlawed.  The lightning link changed how the fire control group (basically trigger in this case) worked but bump stocks don't change how the fire control group operates. 

The key difference between a machine gun and semiautomatic gun legally in America is if one action of the trigger/fire control group fires only one bullet or multiple bullets with one action and one bullet being semiautomatic and one action with multiple bullets being a machine gun.  For semiautomatic guns the trigger has to reset itself and that is normally done by reducing pressure on the trigger so it moves forward to its reset position but bump stocks allow the gun itself to move back when it is fired to reset the trigger with a spring pushing the gun forward after the trigger is reset to fire it again.  What bump stocks are doing is just speeding up the rate that the single action can be done but it is still just a single action of the trigger.

Nearly any semiautomatic rifle, if not every semiautomatic rifle, can be bump fired with practice and the bump stock just makes it easier to do.  Light weight competition triggers with a short travel reset can frequently be bump fired with only minimal practice.

I'm not trying to defend bump stocks but the only way to actually ban them would almost certainly require Congress to act and even then it would be challenging since the same effect can be had with nearly any semiautomatic rifle with enough practice and coming up with a good enough definition will be extremely difficult.  Ultimately the ruling was the correct one as the real issue was on how much can a government agency change legal definitions.

For anyone who doesn't know the lightning link was a small piece of metal that could be put in an AR-15 that would make it a full automatic gun but it would not be able to shot semiautomatic anymore.  

Also under the current definition of machine gun a hand cranked gattling gun can be bought and owned like a regular gun but an electric, pneumatic, hydraulic, or powered by some other means besides a hand crank gattling gun is classified as a machine gun.  

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I have never owned or wanted to own a bump stock.   However, saying it makes a semi automatics rifle a machine gun is false.   Good to see this done.  

 

i wonder if we should buy a few bump stocks while they are legal.  

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Supreme Court gun ruling stuns Las Vegas shooting survivors

On 1 October 2017, Heather Gooze was serving drinks at the Route 91 music festival in Las Vegas when concert-goers began running into her bar, screaming and covered in blood.

A gunman perched high in a Las Vegas hotel had opened fire on the festivities below. He killed 60 people and wounded over 400 more. He was able to carry out what is still the deadliest mass shooting in US history because of a mechanism he installed on his gun known as a bump stock.

In the aftermath of the massacre, then-President Donald Trump banned bump stocks, a modification that allows a rifle to fire like a machine gun. It was a rare example of the US making a change to its gun policies in the wake of a mass shooting, and it was a reform that survivors of the attack welcomed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c033d532354o

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