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A new look at why old age is linked to severe, even fatal COVID


Still Waters

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Ever since the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, it has been abundantly clear that older adults are at substantial risk of severe, even fatal COVID. Yet, the underlying mechanisms for their susceptibility were not always clear despite studies that took co-morbidities into account, like diabetes, heart and lung disorders, and other chronic vagaries of age that can worsen a bout with an infectious disease.

To date, scientists have blamed a dysregulated immune system, an age-related affinity toward excessive blood clotting, and an overall decline in the key soldiers of the adaptive immune system, T and B cells, to explain increased risks for severe COVID in the aging population. And while all of those factors may play a role, an inevitable question looms large: Why?

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-06-age-linked-severe-fatal-covid.html

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Very important article, especially given the aging populations.   

My mother was in her 80s, very healthy, had the vaccine and boosters, yet suffered an awful stroke after having COVID-like symptoms.   

It’s a very real causal link.  

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Interesting. Im glad research is moving forward.

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3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Interesting. Im glad research is moving forward.

I wish someone would get around to quantifying how many of these excess deaths are in people who were vaccinated versus those who were not.  It would give some insight on whether further investigation was needed.  If there was a signifcant majority shown to have been vaccinated then the data could be further teased out to see if there were any other factors that might have been prevalent.  It's obvious now that governments want no part of this because IF a link is found, they'd have to admit the connection and face massive public backlash.  Perhaps we'll get the information in ten or twenty years...

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1 hour ago, and-then said:

I wish someone would get around to quantifying how many of these excess deaths are in people who were vaccinated versus those who were not.  It would give some insight on whether further investigation was needed.  If there was a signifcant majority shown to have been vaccinated then the data could be further teased out to see if there were any other factors that might have been prevalent.  It's obvious now that governments want no part of this because IF a link is found, they'd have to admit the connection and face massive public backlash.  Perhaps we'll get the information in ten or twenty years...

I posted in a different Covid thread about a report that excessive deaths didnt actually drop much after the vaccines and boosters, came out.

Could be this same issue (OP article) allows older people, regardless of boosters, to get sick more often.

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On 6/15/2024 at 10:11 PM, and-then said:

I wish someone would get around to quantifying how many of these excess deaths are in people who were vaccinated versus those who were not.  It would give some insight on whether further investigation was needed.  If there was a signifcant majority shown to have been vaccinated then the data could be further teased out to see if there were any other factors that might have been prevalent.  It's obvious now that governments want no part of this because IF a link is found, they'd have to admit the connection and face massive public backlash.  Perhaps we'll get the information in ten or twenty years...

It's already started. I posted 1 report the other day. Will dig a link out. 47 countries now have high excess death figures, all of which rolled out the jabs, while not a single country where jabs weren't rolled out en masses has any issue with excess deaths. The posters in here that would call me a conspiracy theorist seem to think that it is either coincidental or the report isn't thorigh enough lol. I wonder at which point they start to apologise for the abuse they dished out during and after covid and also start to get a healthier perspective on the 'science'?

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On 6/15/2024 at 11:20 PM, DieChecker said:

I posted in a different Covid thread about a report that excessive deaths didnt actually drop much after the vaccines and boosters, came out.

Could be this same issue (OP article) allows older people, regardless of boosters, to get sick more often.

Excess deaths haven't dropped at all since the jabs rollout, they have continued to rise.

 

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22 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

I wonder at which point they start to apologise for the abuse they dished out during and after covid and also start to get a healthier perspective on the 'science'?

Oh please. :rolleyes: You haven't convinced me that I am dead and a wondering ghost yet. Nor convinced me that my co-health workers at the heart clinic where I work are all dead and ghosts too. And nor have you convinced me that all of the health workers at the nearby main hospital are dead and ghosts too. Because that is what you lot are saying with your misinforming 'excess deaths' comments from the covid vaccine. So, you do not get any apologies from me until I actually die from all of the covid vaccines I started receiving over 3 years and 5 months ago.

:lol: And that's how looney all this is. It's lunacy! 

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6 hours ago, Katniss said:

Oh please. :rolleyes: You haven't convinced me that I am dead and a wondering ghost yet. Nor convinced me that my co-health workers at the heart clinic where I work are all dead and ghosts too. And nor have you convinced me that all of the health workers at the nearby main hospital are dead and ghosts too. Because that is what you lot are saying with your misinforming 'excess deaths' comments from the covid vaccine. So, you do not get any apologies from me until I actually die from all of the covid vaccines I started receiving over 3 years and 5 months ago.

:lol: And that's how looney all this is. It's lunacy! 

You OK? Ghosts?

PS, court ruling: they are not 'vaccines' 

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5 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

You OK? Ghosts?

PS, court ruling: they are not 'vaccines' 

:lol: Whatever that means.

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4 hours ago, Katniss said:

:lol: Whatever that means.

There's been a court ruling that the previously called 'covid vaccines' cannot legally be called vaccines ad they do not meet the criteria to be called such.

 

 

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2 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

There's been a court ruling that the previously called 'covid vaccines' cannot legally be called vaccines ad they do not meet the criteria to be called such.

 

 

Out of interest, what is the difference between the covid vaccines and flu vaccines 🤔

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Arent most Covid vaccines mRNA based? The only mass dustributed mRNA vaccines currently. (Supposedly there was a Ebola mRNA vaccine developed first) Though I've read many are in development.

Traditional vaccines and the mRNA vaccines function very differently. 

https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/messenger-rna-vaccines-covid-19#:~:text=Traditional vaccines put a weakened,response if someone gets infected.

Quote

Traditional vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines, like the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, teach cells how to make a protein that triggers an immune response if someone gets infected. When the vaccine is injected into the upper arm, the mRNA enters cells near the site of the injection and tells the cells to start making the same protein that is found in the COVID-19 virus. The immune system recognizes this protein and begins producing antibodies that can fight the virus if the vaccinated person is later infected.

The difference is like if you eat vitamin fortified food, versus taking a vitamin pill.

A traditional vaccine uses a natural process to introduce a virus to generate antibodies. 

The mRNA method stimulates the cells like a virus would, to generate the same antibodies.

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3 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

There's been a court ruling that the previously called 'covid vaccines' cannot legally be called vaccines ad they do not meet the criteria to be called such.

If it is this one...

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/06/scicheck-posts-misrepresent-ruling-on-covid-19-school-mandate-lawsuit/

Than thats not yet estsblished as true. Someone paraphrased the decision.

That the shots are a medical treatment, and not a vaccine, is the basis of the 2nd lawsuit. Which would mean the specific law couldn't mandate the shots.

The court decided that it would reverse a lower court dismissal, and the case will now be tried. So, maybe theyll decide mDVA shots are vaccines, or maybe they wont. Time will tell. But theres been no legal decision yet.

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5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

If it is this one...

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/06/scicheck-posts-misrepresent-ruling-on-covid-19-school-mandate-lawsuit/

Than thats not yet estsblished as true. Someone paraphrased the decision.

That the shots are a medical treatment, and not a vaccine, is the basis of the 2nd lawsuit. Which would mean the specific law couldn't mandate the shots.

The court decided that it would reverse a lower court dismissal, and the case will now be tried. So, maybe theyll decide mDVA shots are vaccines, or maybe they wont. Time will tell. But theres been no legal decision yet.

I'm so glad the mass jab program is so clear cut 

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On 6/15/2024 at 5:21 PM, Still Waters said:

older adults are at substantial risk of severe, even fatal COVID. Yet, the underlying mechanisms for their susceptibility were not always clear ...

an inevitable question looms large: Why?

What percentage of those older adults had gotten an mRNA injection before they died?

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On 6/18/2024 at 2:35 PM, Katniss said:

You haven't convinced me that I am dead and a wandering ghost yet. Nor convinced me that my co-health workers at the heart clinic where I work are all dead and ghosts too.

What percentage of health workers died during covid19 years and what percentage of the dead had had an mRA injection?

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18 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said:

There's been a court ruling that the previously called 'covid vaccines' cannot legally be called vaccines ad they do not meet the criteria to be called such.

 

 

You need to reevaluate your sources.  The court ruling did NOT say that: https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.34WA2BX

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On 6/17/2024 at 8:34 AM, OpenMindedSceptic said:

Excess deaths haven't dropped at all since the jabs rollout, they have continued to rise.

 

I think your source might not have actually looked at the numbers.  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

There's quite a number of excess deaths during the pandemic, and then they drop off. (the chart should be at the bottom).  You see a resurgence during the second "round" of the epidemic and one when RSV/etc was on the rise.  You would do better to pick a different source.

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On 6/18/2024 at 7:35 AM, Katniss said:

Oh please. :rolleyes: You haven't convinced me that I am dead and a wondering ghost yet. Nor convinced me that my co-health workers at the heart clinic where I work are all dead and ghosts too. And nor have you convinced me that all of the health workers at the nearby main hospital are dead and ghosts too. Because that is what you lot are saying with your misinforming 'excess deaths' comments from the covid vaccine. So, you do not get any apologies from me until I actually die from all of the covid vaccines I started receiving over 3 years and 5 months ago.

:lol: And that's how looney all this is. It's lunacy! 

Anecdotally, my husband and I are fine, as are friends (age 40 and up) who took the jab.  Some who caught Covid before the jab was available have died from Covid, however.  Vaccinated (older) friends who caught it managed to weather it without any problems.  Several unvaccinated friends who got Covid got the bonus prize of Long Covid.

Not a prize I want, thanks.  Aging has enough challenges.

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3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Several unvaccinated friends who got Covid got the bonus prize of Long Covid.

That is valuable data. Thank you.

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16 hours ago, Ell said:

What percentage of health workers died during covid19 years and what percentage of the dead had had an mRA injection?

Why in the world would you want to know that? Hmmm? Are you trying to write a book on covid-19 statistics? :D

In any case, I couldn't tell you the actual percentage of health care workers that died in our local medical community before the vaccine rollouts. Because just after the beginning of the pandemic some nurses and a few doctors quit from incoming overload of covid-19 patients. They were burned out. And then later on, some of us were laid off due to millions of dollars in lost health care revenue during the pandemic. So, some of those health care workers never returned. Some may have moved and found new jobs elsewhere or something else happen to them. 

But I can tell you the percentage of health care workers deaths from vector vaccines like J&J and the mRNA vaccines in my local medical community, AND IT'S A BIG FAT ZERO. If that did happen, I would have heard about it. Nobody could keep something like that a secret where I work and even if they try, it's not for very long. Because we all talk too much about the behind the scenes that go on in our medical community. :lol: Work gossip is crazy here.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Anecdotally, my husband and I are fine, as are friends (age 40 and up) who took the jab.  Some who caught Covid before the jab was available have died from Covid, however.  Vaccinated (older) friends who caught it managed to weather it without any problems.  Several unvaccinated friends who got Covid got the bonus prize of Long Covid.

Not a prize I want, thanks.  Aging has enough challenges.

Yes, when the vaccines were available to us, that was my sentiment. We have enough trouble trying to protect ourselves from any other disease like heart disease and cancer. I wanted to get that vaccine to keep myself from less stress and worry about my health.

Edited by Katniss
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6 minutes ago, Katniss said:

Yes, when the vaccines were available to us, that was my sentiment. We have enough trouble trying to protect ourselves from any other disease like heart disease and cancer. I wanted to get that vaccine to keep myself from less stress and worry about my health.

We're in the very high risk category, and hubby has both Parkinsons and Type 2 diabetes in addition to a heart murmur.  We masked, disinfected, and got all the shots (quite literally the first month they were available.)  Parkinsons patients "crash" with stressors to the body -- a urinary tract infection put him in the hospital for 10 days (not cheap, since we're Americans and under the US health care system) -- Covid hospitalization would quite literally strip all our finances to zero (or, worse, leave us so in debt that we would have to sell our house.)

Since I go to science fiction conventions, I make sure my vaccinations are up to date and mask any time I'm in a crowd.  I don't care if someone thinks it's stupid.  I DO care if my husband gets sick with a preventable disease!

 

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57 minutes ago, Katniss said:

But I can tell you the percentage of health care workers deaths ... AND IT'S A BIG FAT ZERO.

So no health care workers died in your local medical community during the covid19 period. Thank you for the information.

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