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The True Genius Behind The Pyramids


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Posted (edited)

1) economic stimulus project;   2) treasure chamber for later generations

1) it was when Egypt came together at the peak of their raiding successes, they incorporated Northern Egypt and robbed the South (Kush and Nubia, where they also got the idea from that you need a pyramid shaped mountain over your dead body) blind, but that wealth needed distribution, so Pharao said: let's build something together. And everybody had an income and was fed and Egypt kept on flourishing for a long time.

2) and when the decline set in the Pharao started a program to 're-purpose' the grave goods for better use to keep Egypt afloat forever, basically.

 

 

As a side note: King Tut's dagger was made from extraterrestrial iron 150 years before they had the technology. Mystery!!! Everybody's baffled.

egypt.jpg

Edited by MrsGently
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You’re pounding away real hard on this one, @MrsGently but I fail to see what the point is you’re trying to make?

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33 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

You’re pounding away real hard on this one, @MrsGently but I fail to see what the point is you’re trying to make?

What am I pounding? I am making the point that the pyramids were a very successful economic stimulus program that keeps Egypt afloat until present day. The point is exactly what I wrote.

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1 hour ago, MrsGently said:

What am I pounding? I am making the point that the pyramids were a very successful economic stimulus program that keeps Egypt afloat until present day. The point is exactly what I wrote.

Maybe I didn’t understand exactly what you were saying or maybe I did and you’re just covering. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt

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14 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Maybe I didn’t understand exactly what you were saying or maybe I did and you’re just covering. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt

lol covering what? That I added a 'side note' and a joke? I am actually pretty open about it.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, MrsGently said:

1) economic stimulus project;   2) treasure chamber for later generations

1) it was when Egypt came together at the peak of their raiding successes, they incorporated Northern Egypt and robbed the South (Kush and Nubia, where they also got the idea from that you need a pyramid shaped mountain over your dead body) blind, but that wealth needed distribution, so Pharao said: let's build something together. And everybody had an income and was fed and Egypt kept on flourishing for a long time.

 

 

Here's an article on the economy of ancient Egypt: https://theconversation.com/how-the-ancient-egyptian-economy-laid-the-groundwork-for-building-the-pyramids-107026  Briefly, the whole system was based on agriculture (so the only way to increase the economy is have more people farm the land and then trade the surplus to other nations.)  Work projects like temples and pyramids were "paid for" by redistributing goods that were brought in back to the people.  The work was done during the flood season (when you couldn't work the fields) and thus people got food and other goods in exchange for the work. 

It's a better model to think of them as similar to the WPA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration#:~:text=The Works Progress Administration (WPA,of public buildings and roads.) in America.   The pharaohs continued this practice throughout Egyptian history.

Tourism wasn't much of a "thing" back then, and Giza wasn't one of the great destinations in Egypt (Abydos was, however.)  

Edited by Kenemet
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4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

 

Here's an article on the economy of ancient Egypt: https://theconversation.com/how-the-ancient-egyptian-economy-laid-the-groundwork-for-building-the-pyramids-107026  Briefly, the whole system was based on agriculture (so the only way to increase the economy is have more people farm the land and then trade the surplus to other nations.)  Work projects like temples and pyramids were "paid for" by redistributing goods that were brought in back to the people.  The work was done during the flood season (when you couldn't work the fields) and thus people got food and other goods in exchange for the work. 

It's a better model to think of them as similar to the WPA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration#:~:text=The Works Progress Administration (WPA,of public buildings and roads.) in America.   The pharaohs continued this practice throughout Egyptian history.

Tourism wasn't much of a "thing" back then, and Giza wasn't one of the great destinations in Egypt (Abydos was, however.)  

I know you're deep in the topic and I understand that I offered an abstract view. We still know from that workers-village where I currently forgot the name but I bet you know, that people were living there with their families. They had an income in goods sure, doesn't change the fact that everybody was fed because they worked there.

And I never claimed they were a 'tourist' attraction in ancient Egypt, that is your mind's interpretation because that is as I said what makes them 'the gift that keeps on giving until today'. Not in those words, but still...

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On 6/19/2024 at 5:49 AM, MrsGently said:

What am I pounding? I am making the point that the pyramids were a very successful economic stimulus program that keeps Egypt afloat until present day. The point is exactly what I wrote.

What sources are you using, or what evidence can you present that this was a "very successful economic stimulus program"/ What was the need to have said stimulus program? Why was there a need for such a program to span so many years and projects? Where was this mentioned in any writings or inscriptions from AE? Do you then propose that other sites associated with AE are also part of the same "program"?

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On 6/19/2024 at 9:51 AM, Kenemet said:

Tourism wasn't much of a "thing" back then, and Giza wasn't one of the great destinations in Egypt (Abydos was, however.)  

You keep trying to say the DE weren't interested in pyramids because they were so "boring" apparently, yet obviously nothing could be farther from the truth. You didn't provide any last time but maybe you can give some sources to support this claim? 

My response when you said this same exact thing several months ago #818

Its a photo and it shows that because of their grandeur anyone would have an interest in them. Regardless, a source of tourist income...? For say the NK and LP Egyptians who were quite active at Giza...? So Thutmose who "preserved" the Sphinx and was quite proud of it, did this to make money off of tourists? Or how about all the chapels and rest houses they built-for tourists? Or how about the reconstruction on the Isis temple in the LP (originally likely built in the NK)-a little extra cash? 

"Despite ruling over a thousand years after the pyramids were built, Tut and other kings of his Dynasty continued to visit and venerate the sacred site of Giza, building small chapels and rest houses, and setting up inscribed dedications to the Sphinx." 

Not sure what you are trying to say about Abydos (where at Abydos) and Karnak, which the latter was a continuously occupied temple complex, but Giza, as are all pyramid complexes, is a cemetery not a national mall. There are many factors they would not be maintained for 2,000+ years which is not to mean they were not "interested" in them which we can see they clearly were. 

And to the point of this sub conversation, they did not know the Sphinx Temple was there in the NK either even though they dug out and repaired the Sphinx, built retaining walls and chapels right there. Ergo we are hopeful there are still things that could be hidden and Yoshimura will find something interesting. 

[Conversation continues]:

#824

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So tourism was not the forcing function for the construction of the pyramids? Got it.

I didn't really think so. I mean who wants to go on trip to visit a sand powered nuclear reactor.....

 

 

*runs out of room dodging thrown objects.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Trelane said:

What sources are you using, or what evidence can you present that this was a "very successful economic stimulus program"/ ...

lol reality is my source

Quote

...What was the need to have said stimulus program? ...

as I already said in the OP to redistribute the wealth they accumulate from the first thousand-ish years when they raided their neighbouring territory

Quote

Why was there a need for such a program to span so many years and projects? ...

oh wow it is how it has played out, to say 'need for such a program' tells me you don't really understand a word of what I wrote

Quote

...Where was this mentioned in any writings or inscriptions from AE? Do you then propose that other sites associated with AE are also part of the same "program"?

you are insane aren't you? Are you ****ing seriously thinking that the first pharao I quote is an actual person who planned it as it has played out 6k-ish years ago to now? And are you that one guy who takes all of this as literal and not as allegory for how the construction distributed wealth in Ancient Egypt and kept is afloat during the decline and even today? You just seriously don't get it do you?

 

Pompous monkey entering the conversation gorilla chest drumming and everything but inable to understand a word.... bravo bravo, have a banana, sit in the corner and think about what you just did

Edited by MrsGently
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The only reason those first pyramids, no, the Giza pyramids were built was to establish an image of power to the onlookers, the citizens of Ancient Egypt.

Ànd... yes... to those who visited AE from abroad. Kings and ambassadors and such.

But that's not like it being built to attract fkg tourists, jesus.

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1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

The only reason those first pyramids, no, the Giza pyramids were built was to establish an image of power to the onlookers, the citizens of Ancient Egypt.

Ànd... yes... to those who visited AE from abroad. Kings and ambassadors and such.

But that's not like it being built to attract fkg tourists, jesus.

lol sure if it is not 'for ritual purposes' it is to 'project power' that's all those ancients did, they weren't really people living lifes they just worshipped and projected power all day.... at least that is what the Victorian historians told us, right?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

lol sure if it is not 'for ritual purposes' it is to 'project power' that's all those ancients did, they weren't really people living lifes they just worshipped and projected power all day.... at least that is what the Victorian historians told us, right?

Quote

...But that's not like it being built to attract fkg tourists, jesus.

nobody said it was to attract tourists. The issue is you read 'genius' in the title as 'there is this one guy and he planned it all exactly as it all happnes' that has never and will never happen so please don't molest me with the wrong assumptions that are really your problem.

The genius I am talking about is how the idea of feeding the masses by letting them work for the glory of Pharao was beneficial for that long. It is not a person that genius i'm talking about, but it is how great the idea worked and how it developed

Edited by MrsGently
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1 hour ago, MrsGently said:

lol reality is my source

as I already said in the OP to redistribute the wealth they accumulate from the first thousand-ish years when they raided their neighbouring territory

oh wow it is how it has played out, to say 'need for such a program' tells me you don't really understand a word of what I wrote

you are insane aren't you? Are you ****ing seriously thinking that the first pharao I quote is an actual person who planned it as it has played out 6k-ish years ago to now? And are you that one guy who takes all of this as literal and not as allegory for how the construction distributed wealth in Ancient Egypt and kept is afloat during the decline and even today? You just seriously don't get it do you?

 

Pompous monkey entering the conversation gorilla chest drumming and everything but inable to understand a word.... bravo bravo, have a banana, sit in the corner and think about what you just did

Are you meaning current reality, or the reality of what was happening during the period when the pyramids were built?

Who did the Pharoah redistribute his wealth to?

Yes 'need'. There has to be a cause that caused that cause. The 'need' is what drove generations of thousands of Egyptians to toil to build these amazing structures. What was the need? You say tourism. I don't recall reading anywhere about the booming tourism industry that coincided with Dynastic Egypt.

Of course, I could be wrong, and I will defer to those who are more educated and well read on the subject.

 

The last comment is silly, immature, and unnecessary. Have some emotional intelligence and learn to deal with contrasting opinions. Not everything is a competition or confrontation Missus. Even though you apparently have conditioned yourself to believe so. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Are you meaning current reality, or the reality of what was happening during the period when the pyramids were built?...

Is there a difference? Isn't reality always 'what happens'?

Quote

...

Who did the Pharoah redistribute his wealth to?...

the Egyptians. lol

Quote

...

Yes 'need'. There has to be a cause that caused that cause. The 'need' is what drove generations of thousands of Egyptians to toil to build these amazing structures. What was the need?
...

loyalty. Because Pharao was avant-garde social scientist (lol) of his time and realised that his soldiers were loyal because they were fed and housed and partook in the loot, to get the same loyalty from his Egyptian regulars he also bound them by food and shelter and an extra here and there like festivals etc... classic civilisation building like the Egyptians did.

Quote

You say tourism. I don't recall reading anywhere about the booming tourism industry that coincided with Dynastic Egypt.

because you're stupid we already covered that. Modern day tourism not ancient Egypt.

Quote

...Not everything is a competition or confrontation Missus....

Dude I have blocked you exactly for that reason, you are just too stupid to understand what I say but somehow think you have any authority. You don't you just annoy me.

Edited by MrsGently
typos so many typos
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4 minutes ago, Trelane said:

The 'need' is what drove generations of thousands of Egyptians to toil to build these amazing structures.

They sure used a teeny tiny little workers village to house all these thousands and generations!   

Evidence says few people were needed and the builders themselves said the "gods" built the pyramids.  

We reason in circles and this might be why we don't know how the pyramids were built.  

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5 minutes ago, cladking said:

They sure used a teeny tiny little workers village to house all these thousands and generations!   

Evidence says few people were needed and the builders themselves said the "gods" built the pyramids.  

We reason in circles and this might be why we don't know how the pyramids were built.  

... which brought another aspect to mind: it even created new professions such as enbalmers and artists ... the whole cat mummy industry amongst others

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

Is there a difference? Isn't reality always 'what happens'?

the Egyptians. lol

loyalty. Because Pharao was avat-garde social scientis of his time and realised that his soldiers were loyal because they were fed and housed and partook in the loot, to get the same loyalty from his Egyptian regulars he also bound them by food and shelter and an extra here and there like festivals etc... classic civilisation building like the Egyptians did.

because you're stupid we already covered that. Modern day tourism not ancient Egypt.

Dude I have blocked you exactly for that reason, you are just too stupid to understand what I say but somehow think you have any authority. You don't you just annoy me.

Of course there is a difference. The reality of living in dynastic Egypt is different than living in modern day Egypt.

I'm fairly certain the average "Joe Egyptian" didn't receive anything acquired by the Pharaoh or his family. Unless you have evidence to the contrary to present.

Edit *** I was wrong on this point, thanks @Kenemet for providing that clarification ****

Well, that's like your opinion man. You're certainly entitled to have it, but it is clearly incorrect.

Hmmm, don't think we have but whatever. Sure, sounds good. "What's that beeping???" Oh that? We're backtracking and that's the sound of someone backing up. Also, maturity and emotional intelligence. 😉

Dude, if I was blocked, how are you responding? More curious to ask, why? I think you like the interaction. You like me, I get it.😎

No I understand what you've written and I've responded in kind. I have repeatedly stated in these sub forums that I am by no means an expert in anything to do with Ancient Egypt. So, I'm certainly no authority.

Annoy???? Me???? Never.

 

 

Edited by Trelane
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, cladking said:

They sure used a teeny tiny little workers village to house all these thousands and generations!   

Evidence says few people were needed and the builders themselves said the "gods" built the pyramids.  

We reason in circles and this might be why we don't know how the pyramids were built.  

Shhhhh, adults are talking.

Re-read how that sentence was constructed. We'll work on letters and numbers next week. just focus on colors and shapes this week. 👍

Anyway, you still have a long list of questions from others to answer. You should be working on that. 

Edited by Trelane
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2 hours ago, MrsGently said:

lol reality is my source

as I already said in the OP to redistribute the wealth they accumulate from the first thousand-ish years when they raided their neighbouring territory

Okay... let's get something else on the table:

Ancient Egyptian temples (not the pharaohs) were actually the wealth distribution centers for Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_temple ), taking in goods from taxes and doling them out to the local population when times were bad.  Pharaohs donated land and other items to the temples to help.

Egypt was rich because of her grain and cattle, something the earliest pharaohs had immediate access to.  Goods from conquest didn't play that much into it.  Instead, they purchased things with grain and other local products.  Anything made (or grown) by anyone in the land was basically the property of the pharaoh. 

Conquered lands sent tribute, but not in so great a quantity that it really changed the land's economy.  Tribute went straight to the pharaoh, who might use it to fund projects (to keep the workers from getting into trouble during the rainy season) -- typically they sent them to work in the big temple at Karnak or other famous locations (not Giza, actually) and there's thousands of years of building projects there.

Soldiers would bring home slaves, but a slave is expensive (another mouth to feed, they may not speak the language, must be taught their duties and supervised, in danger of running away, etc, etc.)  Most people didn't have slaves.

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11 minutes ago, MrsGently said:

loyalty. Because Pharao was avant-garde social scientist (lol) of his time and realised that his soldiers were loyal because they were fed and housed and partook in the loot, to get the same loyalty from his Egyptian regulars he also bound them by food and shelter and an extra here and there like festivals etc... classic civilisation building like the Egyptians did.

The Egyptians didn't actually have an army at that time.  They nobles were generals (often rather untrained ones) and they conscripted peasants and artisans for their armies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_ancient_Egypt

And they were pretty bad at fighting, too.

Eventually they hired foreign mercenaries who would fight as long as they were paid and then would go home or go fight for the other side.  No loyalty.  They don't get a standing army until the New Kingdom, around 2,000 years after Menes united Egypt for the first time.

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So, I stand corrected. I was wrong and thank you for providing that information. I wasn't aware that anything was passed out to the general population.

 

See, I'm not what some folks are trying to say. I easily admit when I'm wrong. It's called being an adult.😉

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

...

Eventually they hired foreign mercenaries who would fight as long as they were paid and then would go home or go fight for the other side.  No loyalty.  They don't get a standing army until the New Kingdom, around 2,000 years after Menes united Egypt for the first time.

I don't know what your interpretation of 'loyalty' is in this but I'd say following the orders of Pharao is pretty loyal? I mean the mercenaries later sure, hired outright, but the for me in my far zoomed out perspective is not in any way refuted by this post or your previous one, you actually just confirmed that the building project and the military enterprises brought together and made possible what the Egyptian kingdoms were. Because everybody had a task and was fed and housed one way or another. Thanks to the Pharao and they knew, so yes still 'loyalty' and civilisation building by redistribution of wealth even if that wealth is more primitive goods and services so to speak.

 

Edited by MrsGently
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