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Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war


pellinore

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Posted (edited)

His incendiary claim that the West provoked the war in Ukraine will be offensive to many people.

It may make some of those Conservative supporters considering switching to Reform UK on 4 July think again....

His comments were straight out of the playbook of his friend Donald Trump. Is Nigel Farage's Ukraine gaffe the first mistake of his election campaign? | Politics News | Sky News

Mr Ingram, a respected commentator on the conflict in Ukraine, told the Mail: 'The West in no way provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine and suggesting so plays directly into Putin's hands.

'Putin will be smiling to himself seeing his work being done. Farage is a convenient mouthpiece for disinformation and a danger to our security with views like that.

'Farage's comments make the world a more dangerous place as they give succour to Putin. We must robustly defend sovereign nations.'

Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war: Incredible moment Reform leader tells BBC that NATO and EU 'provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion' with 'eastward expansion'- and admits he admires Russian president | Daily Mail Online

Edited by pellinore
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  • The title was changed to Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, pellinore said:

His incendiary claim that the West provoked the war in Ukraine will be offensive to many people.

It may make some of those Conservative supporters considering switching to Reform UK on 4 July think again....

His comments were straight out of the playbook of his friend Donald Trump. Is Nigel Farage's Ukraine gaffe the first mistake of his election campaign? | Politics News | Sky News

Mr Ingram, a respected commentator on the conflict in Ukraine, told the Mail: 'The West in no way provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine and suggesting so plays directly into Putin's hands.

'Putin will be smiling to himself seeing his work being done. Farage is a convenient mouthpiece for disinformation and a danger to our security with views like that.

'Farage's comments make the world a more dangerous place as they give succour to Putin. We must robustly defend sovereign nations.'

Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war: Incredible moment Reform leader tells BBC that NATO and EU 'provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion' with 'eastward expansion'- and admits he admires Russian president | Daily Mail Online

Once again Nigel is correct, it was your beloved that caused it when the expansionist EU fanatics went recklessly meddling in Ukraine and offering them carrots for the future, which led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow Government (Euromaidan) and the Russian annexation of Crimea, which was followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine, and all because of the expansionist dreams of the EU.

The EU are still at it in old Soviet Eastern Europe with six other states as well, all because of the expansionist dreams of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Edited by Destination Unknown
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1 minute ago, Destination Unknown said:

Once again Nigel is correct,

Farage is a traitor. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Farage is a traitor. 

What, for telling the truth?

Again pellinore, it was the EU's meddling in Ukraine that was the catalyst for the present Russian/Ukraine conflict in the first place when they went offering Ukraine sweeteners for the future with their ultimately rejected proposal for a 'European Union - Ukraine Association Agreement'.

This led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow Government (Euromaidan) and the Russian annexation of Crimea, which was followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine, and all because of the expansionist dreams of the EU.

The completely blinkered expansionist EU fanatics went recklessly meddling in Ukraine without any thought to the possible consequences, which then set off a chain of events that has led to where we are right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Edited by Destination Unknown
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pellinore said:

His incendiary claim that the West provoked the war in Ukraine will be offensive to many people.

It may make some of those Conservative supporters considering switching to Reform UK on 4 July think again....

His comments were straight out of the playbook of his friend Donald Trump. Is Nigel Farage's Ukraine gaffe the first mistake of his election campaign? | Politics News | Sky News

Mr Ingram, a respected commentator on the conflict in Ukraine, told the Mail: 'The West in no way provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine and suggesting so plays directly into Putin's hands.

'Putin will be smiling to himself seeing his work being done. Farage is a convenient mouthpiece for disinformation and a danger to our security with views like that.

'Farage's comments make the world a more dangerous place as they give succour to Putin. We must robustly defend sovereign nations.'

Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war: Incredible moment Reform leader tells BBC that NATO and EU 'provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion' with 'eastward expansion'- and admits he admires Russian president | Daily Mail Online

Not at all, I`m fully aware the EU did a coup on the Ukrainian government, put two minor Nazi parties in charge, and then pushed them into holding elections in which their current leader won.

As this information is all in the public domain, and from time to time is covered in our own media, the real question is why people are so tightly bound to their beliefs. The EU started it, and Ukraine did try to criminalise people in Ukraine speaking Russian or holding dual Russian citizenship, and it started the unofficial invasion which has kept growing since then becoming their special military operation.

I also don`t get why the UK is supporting EU expansionism. I say that because what if the EU goes on to become our enemy? I could easily see them trying to play similar games to claim Northern Ireland. Finally it has been stated in western media several times that Russian forces were not beaten at Kiev, what happened is Ukraine agreed a peace deal with Russia and then once their forces were withdrawn tore it up.

You should see the delusional beliefs about it on the Russian-Ukraine war topics. So living in cuckoo land are people in those topics they not only don`t believe that (and again it is on the record with our own government that it is fact), but they even seriously believe the Russian army ran out of fuel. Most laughable of all is that they believe a poorly trained and equipped army, with donations of old NATO equipment, is not only winning the war but achieving an outstanding kill ratio.

Edited by Duke Wellington
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12 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

What, for telling the truth?

Farage has long had links to Russia. It is well known Farage has used Russian money to undermine the UK. Brexit was Putin's greatest (only) international triumph. A Kremlin official said after the referendum result: 'Britain has been brought to its knees... it will not rise for a very long time'.

He was once offered the chance to be Putin's mouthpiece: Kremlin-backed broadcaster RT offers Nigel Farage his own show (archive.ph)

It is clear where your allegiance also lies- and it's not with the UK!

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Duke Wellington said:

You should see the delusional beliefs about it on the Russian-Ukraine war topics. 

So, another traitor!

Russia’s former ambassador to the UK Alexander Yakovenko previously boasted that Russia had “crushed” the British after the public voted to leave the EU in 2016.

'We have crushed the British to the ground!' Russian ambassador's words after Brexit vote (Image: GETTY)Ukraine: Tensions with Russia have grown (Image: GETTY)

The threatening comments are quoted in journalist Luke Harding’s book, ‘Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Remaking of the West’, published in 2020.

Speaking to a fellow diplomat, Mr Yakovenko reportedly said: “We have crushed the British to the ground.

“They are on their knees, and they will not rise for a very long time.”

Russian ambassador’s chilling words after Brexit vote: ‘We have crushed the British!’ | World | News | Express.co.uk

Edited by pellinore
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Just now, pellinore said:

You`re ignoring our own government investigation which found no evidence of any influence.

Obviously the lefties like to hear and latch onto anything to invalidate a right wing government. The last 10 years has been bad with their level of self-delusion starting with Trump, spreading to trying to undermine Brexit, and currently going on in our country with the widespread harassment of politicians.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Farage has long had links to Russia. It is well known Farage has used Russian money to undermine the UK. Brexit was Putin's greatest (only) international triumph. A Kremlin official said after the referendum result: 'Britain has been brought to its knees... it will not rise for a very long time'.

He was once offered the chance to be Putin's mouthpiece: Kremlin-backed broadcaster RT offers Nigel Farage his own show (archive.ph)

It is clear where your allegiance also lies- and it's not with the UK!

Oh give it a rest pellinore because I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing (and debunking) those baseless Remoaner LIES that Putin somehow mysteriously caused Brexit.

Why do you have to go down the obviously desperate road of wild conspiracy theories about dark Russian money just because you arrogantly "think" there can be no other possible logical explanation for us to actually vote Leave other than we were somehow "influenced" into voting Leave via some kind of nefarious Russian "involvement"?

Ever since the day of the result when it had finally dawned on you that 'Remain' had lost the vote you undemocratic Remoaning little crybabies have never ceased bleating on about how it must have been Putin that had somehow "brainwashed us" into voting 'Leave', whilst at the same time totally ignoring the fact that the Russian oligarch and former KGB owned (Not So) Independent staunchly advocated we should vote 'Remain' in a blatant anti-Brexit pro-EU propaganda hit piece published on the very day of the referendum. And you can't see the irony.!!

Why can't you just accept the simple fact that maybe people voted to Leave the EU, because maybe they actually just wanted to Leave the EU?

It's because it can't be that simple in your undemocratic mind isn't it pellinore, which is why you have to make up these outlandish conspiracy theories so that it's much easier for your mind to cope with why Remain LOST a democratic vote, so you continue to blame bogey man Putin instead, the election meddling Bond villain up to his usual antics.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/the-right-choice-is-to-remain-a7090326.html

Edited by Destination Unknown
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25 minutes ago, pellinore said:

It is well known Farage has used Russian money to undermine the UK.

undermine the UK.!?!? well that's news to me! 

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3 hours ago, pellinore said:

His incendiary claim that the West provoked the war in Ukraine will be offensive to many people.

It may make some of those Conservative supporters considering switching to Reform UK on 4 July think again....

His comments were straight out of the playbook of his friend Donald Trump. Is Nigel Farage's Ukraine gaffe the first mistake of his election campaign? | Politics News | Sky News

Mr Ingram, a respected commentator on the conflict in Ukraine, told the Mail: 'The West in no way provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine and suggesting so plays directly into Putin's hands.

'Putin will be smiling to himself seeing his work being done. Farage is a convenient mouthpiece for disinformation and a danger to our security with views like that.

'Farage's comments make the world a more dangerous place as they give succour to Putin. We must robustly defend sovereign nations.'

Fury as Nigel Farage blames the West for Ukraine war: Incredible moment Reform leader tells BBC that NATO and EU 'provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion' with 'eastward expansion'- and admits he admires Russian president | Daily Mail Online

Check his bank accounts. Methinks someone got a early Christmas present from Putin.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

Once again Nigel is correct, it was your beloved that caused it when the expansionist EU fanatics went recklessly meddling in Ukraine and offering them carrots for the future, which led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow Government (Euromaidan) and the Russian annexation of Crimea, which was followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine, and all because of the expansionist dreams of the EU.

The EU are still at it in old Soviet Eastern Europe with six other states as well, all because of the expansionist dreams of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Lol. Okay Comrade. You've earned your borscht for the day.

Edited by Hankenhunter
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8 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Lol. Okay Comrade. You've earned your borscht for the day.

Alright, let's do it your way then. Explain how he's wrong.

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8 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

Alright, let's do it your way then. Explain how he's wrong.

No, no. Please continue. You're doing so well. 🫠

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Just now, Hankenhunter said:

No, no. Please continue. You're doing so well. 🫠

I don't need to continue. I've already staked my claim that Nigel is correct, you're the one that's disputing it by ignorantly mocking it without anything to counter what I've said, so it's up to you to debunk it with a valid counter-argument. So go on, the floor is all yours, explain how he's wrong.

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Fine, the whole link you provided doesn't come close to explaining any nuance at all. The people protesting, and the dick who refused to sign the bill were all Russian stooges. Add that to the current war, and past war crimes (stolen land), plus the fact that Ukraine currently, and near overwhelmingly voted to join Nato makes your argument ludicrous. I fully expect them (Ukraine)to join the EU in the neat future if only for protection from Russian predation.

Good day 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Fine, the whole link you provided doesn't come close to explaining any nuance at all. The people protesting, and the dick who refused to sign the bill were all Russian stooges. Add that to the current war, and past war crimes (stolen land), plus the fact that Ukraine currently, and near overwhelmingly voted to join Nato makes your argument ludicrous. I fully expect them (Ukraine)to join the EU in the neat future if only for protection from Russian predation.

Good day 

And the only reason they were protesting in the first place was because their government had rejected the EU's proposed 'European Union - Ukraine Association Agreement' wasn't it 'Hankenhunter'? 🤔

So like I stated in post #4 above, instead of leaving well alone, the completely blinkered expansionist EU fanatics went recklessly meddling in Ukraine, offering them sweeteners for the future, without any thought to the possible consequences, which then set off a chain of events that has led to where we are right now.

It was the EU's meddling in Ukraine that was the catalyst for the present Russia/Ukraine conflict in the first place, because the expansionist EU fanatics indirectly poked the Russian bear with their totally reckless and irresponsible actions in Ukraine, and the Russian bear retaliated, so how is Nigel wrong exactly? 🤔

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Edited by Destination Unknown
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3 hours ago, Destination Unknown said:

I don't need to continue. I've already staked my claim that Nigel is correct, you're the one that's disputing it by ignorantly mocking it without anything to counter what I've said, so it's up to you to debunk it with a valid counter-argument. So go on, the floor is all yours, explain how he's wrong.

 I'll answer it. Farage is in the wrong because:

Farage is claiming sovereign, independent countries like Ukraine (and Sweden and Finland) shouldn't aspire to join NATO or the EU as they are 'provoking' a dictator in another country. 

Yet Farage claims the UK needed to leave the EU so it could avoid inference and make its own decisions on its destiny.

Can't you see the inconsistency? He either thinks countries should be free to do their own thing, or not be free for fear of upsetting a foreign power.

But that is Farage all over- no integrity, just follow the money even if it means selling countries out. After all, he had no compunction about selling the UK down the river for personal grift.

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6 hours ago, Duke Wellington said:

You`re ignoring our own government investigation which found no evidence of any influence.

Obviously the lefties like to hear and latch onto anything to invalidate a right wing government. The last 10 years has been bad with their level of self-delusion starting with Trump, spreading to trying to undermine Brexit, and currently going on in our country with the widespread harassment of politicians.

They investigated themselves and found themselves innocent. 
colour me amazed.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, pellinore said:

 I'll answer it. Farage is in the wrong because:

Farage is claiming sovereign, independent countries like Ukraine (and Sweden and Finland) shouldn't aspire to join NATO or the EU as they are 'provoking' a dictator in another country. 

Yet Farage claims the UK needed to leave the EU so it could avoid inference and make its own decisions on its destiny.

Can't you see the inconsistency? He either thinks countries should be free to do their own thing, or not be free for fear of upsetting a foreign power.

But that is Farage all over- no integrity, just follow the money even if it means selling countries out. After all, he had no compunction about selling the UK down the river for personal grift.

So what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place pellinore, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

Go on, repeat after me pellinore, it was your beloved EU's ultimately rejected proposal for a 'European Union - Ukraine Association Agreement' that was the very reason why they were protesting in the first place wasn't it pellinore.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Edited by Destination Unknown
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22 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

So what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place pellinore, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

Go on, repeat after me pellinore, it was your beloved EU's ultimately rejected proposal for a 'European Union - Ukraine Association Agreement' that was the very reason why they were protesting in the first place wasn't it pellinore.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

This is what our PM said: 

The PM told broadcasters: "What he said was completely wrong and only plays into [Vladimir] Putin's hands.

"This is a man who deployed nerve agents on the streets of Britain, who's doing deals with countries like North Korea.

"And this kind of appeasement is dangerous for Britain's security, the security of our allies that rely on us, and only emboldens Putin further."

There is nothing actually wrong with being a traitor if someone sincerely believes they are morally right to sell out their own country. Except I don't believe Farage is sincere, he is just following the money. Grubby little grifter that he is.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, pellinore said:

This is what our PM said: 

The PM told broadcasters: "What he said was completely wrong and only plays into [Vladimir] Putin's hands.

"This is a man who deployed nerve agents on the streets of Britain, who's doing deals with countries like North Korea.

"And this kind of appeasement is dangerous for Britain's security, the security of our allies that rely on us, and only emboldens Putin further."

There is nothing actually wrong with being a traitor if someone sincerely believes they are morally right to sell out their own country. Except I don't believe Farage is sincere, he is just following the money. Grubby little grifter that he is.

That's very nice of you to completely avoid what I've just asked you in order to inform me of what someone else has said pellinore, but going back to what I originally asked you, what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Edited by Destination Unknown
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3 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

That's very nice of you to completely avoid what I've just asked you in order to inform me of what someone else has said pellinore, but going back to what I originally asked you, what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

You are only offering some of President Putin’s speech notes (The Historical Unity of Russia and Ukraine), not the actual history. The UK is united in its condemnation of Farage's remarks; he is only supported by appeasers. He has shown himself unfit for political office in the UK.

On the Reform leader’s argument, Mr Wallace said: “Let’s not forget that Nigel Farage is also wrong, actually he’s been consistently wrong. Putin isn’t really invading Ukraine because of Nato expansion.

“If you were to study Putin’s own words in the article he wrote in June 2021 called The Historical Unity of Russia and Ukraine… it only mentions Nato in one paragraph. What it actually goes on to do is talk about ethnic nationalism and the rights of Russia to effectively expand itself based on a very twisted, sort of amateur Putin view of history.”

He added: “Nato is a defensive alliance to its core, it’s not an offensive [alliance], it doesn’t go around invading people like President Putin… any new members we have seen have usually been a direct result of Putin’s aggression to them and also to their values.”

Mr Wallace was not the only politician to criticise Mr Farage’s comments.

John Healey, Labour’s shadow defence secretary, posted on X on Friday night: “These are disgraceful comments, which reveal the true face of Nigel Farage: a Putin apologist who should never be trusted with our nation’s security.

“Up until now, there has been a united front amongst Britain’s political leaders in supporting the people of Ukraine against the unprovoked and unjustifiable assault they have suffered at the hands of Vladimir Putin.

“Nigel Farage has put himself outside that united position, and shown that he would rather lick Vladimir Putin’s boot than stand up for the people of Ukraine. That makes him unfit for any political office in our country, let alone leading a serious party in Parliament.”

 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, pellinore said:

You are only offering some of President Putin’s speech notes (The Historical Unity of Russia and Ukraine), not the actual history. The UK is united in its condemnation of Farage's remarks; he is only supported by appeasers. He has shown himself unfit for political office in the UK.

On the Reform leader’s argument, Mr Wallace said: “Let’s not forget that Nigel Farage is also wrong, actually he’s been consistently wrong. Putin isn’t really invading Ukraine because of Nato expansion.

“If you were to study Putin’s own words in the article he wrote in June 2021 called The Historical Unity of Russia and Ukraine… it only mentions Nato in one paragraph. What it actually goes on to do is talk about ethnic nationalism and the rights of Russia to effectively expand itself based on a very twisted, sort of amateur Putin view of history.”

He added: “Nato is a defensive alliance to its core, it’s not an offensive [alliance], it doesn’t go around invading people like President Putin… any new members we have seen have usually been a direct result of Putin’s aggression to them and also to their values.”

Mr Wallace was not the only politician to criticise Mr Farage’s comments.

John Healey, Labour’s shadow defence secretary, posted on X on Friday night: “These are disgraceful comments, which reveal the true face of Nigel Farage: a Putin apologist who should never be trusted with our nation’s security.

“Up until now, there has been a united front amongst Britain’s political leaders in supporting the people of Ukraine against the unprovoked and unjustifiable assault they have suffered at the hands of Vladimir Putin.

“Nigel Farage has put himself outside that united position, and shown that he would rather lick Vladimir Putin’s boot than stand up for the people of Ukraine. That makes him unfit for any political office in our country, let alone leading a serious party in Parliament.”

 

I'm asking you a very simple question pellinore, why are you having so much difficulty answering it?

Again pellinore, for a third time, what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

Oh, and this is what Nigel Farage actually said, not what he has deliberately been misquoted as saying, from the actual BBC interview:

Quote: "The Reform UK leader told the BBC that "of course" the war was President Vladimir Putin's fault. But he added that the expansion of the EU and Nato gave him a "reason" to tell the Russian people "they're coming for us again".

So to break that down pellinore, he "is" putting the blame for the war in Ukraine directly on Putin. Now, get this, he's also saying that the "reason" that Putin has invaded Ukraine is precisely "because" he felt he had no other choice, because of the expansion of NATO and your beloved EU eastwards towards Russia's borders.

By meddling in Ukraine in the first place pellinore, your beloved EU played straight into Putin's hands, because all it did was give him the excuse he needed to invade.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cldd44zv3kpo

Edited by Destination Unknown
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30 minutes ago, Destination Unknown said:

I'm asking you a very simple question pellinore, why are you having so much difficulty answering it?

Again pellinore, for a third time, what was the catalyst for the euromaidan protests in the first place, which ultimately led to the overthrow of their pro-Moscow government, the Russian annexation of Crimea, followed by civil war, then the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine, and finally the current all out Russian invasion of Ukraine? 🤔

Because it is an irrelevant and pointless question. Which you know and you are using it as a red herring.

The point is: Farage has claimed (and you also) that Ukraine, by exercising its sovereign right to join any international organisation it wants to, including the EU and NATO, has brought the Russian invasion on itself. 

Which is obviously nonsense. Military analyst Sean Bell said this morning on LBC that the argument is fatuous, because by invading to the West, Putin is putting himself closer to NATO. If he keeps going, he will be bordering Germany and France. So how does his argument that NATO is moving East towards Russia hold up?

Putin has no right to invade Ukraine, full stop. Internal dissent is just an excuse, it is nothing to do with Russia. Would you argue that because there is political tension between pro-Palestinians and pro-Israelis in the UK that either Hamas or Israel would be justified in attacking or invading the UK? Of course not. Military invasion and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people is not the way to conduct international relations- at least outside Putin and Farage's world view.

Besides which, NATO is defensive, not offensive.

 

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