Intense phase of war with Hamas about to end,’ focus to shift to Lebanon border, Netanyahu says

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, and-then said:

When the troops are multiple meters underground, radio is not nearly as reliable as when above ground.  There are tech means to overcome this but it seems the IDF would have to install them as they go.

The communication should be maintained above ground to prevent Troops under ground from being killed by friendly fire. If the IDF, is involved in clearing underground facilities, the entire military chain of command should be aware of it. That way no artillery or bombing should occur until everyone is accounted for. But no matter urban warfare is always a dangerous game for all involved, I am just glad that the United States has mostly overcome this problem like no other country in the world.

[+and-then]

Looks like Santa Claus' evil twin has gotten the word from his masters in Tehran to find a new hole because the IDF knows where he is and are going to kill him as soon as this thing begins in earnest.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I did a quick search and found a a few articles on the subject that might be of interest:

Soldiers Test Israeli Tech To Stop Friendly Fire
https://breakingdefense.com/2020/03/soldiers-test-israeli-tech-to-stop-friendly-fire/

The Goal - To Prevent Cases of "Friendly Fire"
https://www.haaretz.com/haaretz-labels/se/2023-12-31/ty-article-labels/the-goal-to-prevent-cases-of-friendly-fire/0000018c-bf7b-d3e0-abac-fffbc7f80000

Technology that Avoids Friendly Fire Required
https://i-hls.com/archives/101621

Most cases of friendly fire occur during Armor engagements, bombing, and artillery / missile bombardments. The first link where the device is attached to the rifle is to big and comber some in my opinion. The other two links are much better choices for individual soldier identification. But nothing is better than complete command and control over the battlefield and the third link you provided is best in my opinion. I also expect that it is very similar to what the US is currently using, like I said previously I don’t know what is currently being used because when I retired in 2003 everything was just being introduced through fielding and things were changing every week. Like I said before @Trelane is the expert here on the forum because he has used all the finished technology and because he is still on active duty.

Hope this helps.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Looks like Santa Claus' evil twin has gotten the word from his masters in Tehran to find a new hole because the IDF knows where he is and are going to kill him as soon as this thing begins in earnest.

A 'rat in a hole' lol. That about covers it.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

Israeli troops complete exercises simulating fighting in Lebanon

Israeli troops carried out exercises this past week simulating fighting in Lebanon, which the military says is part of the Northern Command’s efforts to increase readiness amid heightened tensions on the northern border.

The Golani Brigade’s 12th Brigade, which has been operating in the Mount Dov and Mount Hermon areas on the northern border, carried out a drill simulating fighting in complex terrain, the military says. Another drill, carried out by the 55th Reserve Paratroopers Brigade, practiced various combat scenarios, including movement in complex terrain and advancing along a “mountainous route,” the IDF says.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-troops-complete-exercises-simulating-fighting-in-lebanon/

[Trelane]

10 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Most cases of friendly fire occur during Armor engagements, bombing, and artillery / missile bombardments. The first link where the device is attached to the rifle is to big and comber some in my opinion. The other two links are much better choices for individual soldier identification. But nothing is better than complete command and control over the battlefield and the third link you provided is best in my opinion. I also expect that it is very similar to what the US is currently using, like I said previously I don’t know what is currently being used because when I retired in 2003 everything was just being introduced through fielding and things were changing every week. Like I said before @Trelane is the expert here on the forum because he has used all the finished technology and because he is still on active duty.

Hope this helps.

Thanks man, I'm not necessarily an expert just an old troop in the winter of his career.  But we'll see how this goes. *takes deep breath*.....

@Kittens Are Jerks since around 2002-2003 the Blue Force Tracking (BFT) System is a GPS-based capability that provides commanders of units with location information about friendly and (if available) enemy forces. it provides a common picture for all commanders in a specific area of operations or theatre of battle. BFT systems are comprised of the following components: a computer for location display; a satellite terminal and antenna for transmitting military data; a Global Positioning System receiver for determining the device's own position; command-and-control software for sending and receiving commands; and mapping software, which typically takes the form of a geographic information system (GIS) for plotting the BFT device on a map. The host vehicle's location is shown by the system on the computer's terrain map display, together with the locations of other platforms (enemy in red and friendly in blue) at each location. Text and image communications can also be sent and received using BFT. 

Around 2016, the Army started fielding the 2nd generation called the Joint battle Command-Platform (JBC-P). it essentially equipped Soldiers with a faster satellite network, secure data encryption and advanced logistics. JBC-P has an easy-to-use interface with drag-and-drop icons and touch-to-zoom maps. JBC-P works with the Soldier-managed "Nett Warrior" handheld gadget to provide dismounted soldiers with situational awareness capabilities. The Mounted Family of Computer Systems (MFoCS), standardized tactical computers that are scalable and configurable to the task and vehicle, is a common hardware component that is integrated into JBC-P. With options ranging from a tablet that can be detached to a workstation that can be put in a car and loaded with software, MFoCS reduces size, weight, and power requirements while running JBC-P in addition to other applications. 

Individual or personal tracking devices or personal locator beacons (PLBs) are outside of my wheelhouse. I'm aware that specific Special Forces units have them, but I do not know their capabilities or overall functionality.

[Kittens Are Jerks]

@Trelane Thank you for taking the time to provide that information. It's quite interesting! Did you at any point in your career use any of these systems? What I'm especially interested in knowing is whether or not they present much of a 'cognitive burden' on soldiers, especially in situations where all hell has broken loose.

[Trelane]

18 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

@Trelane Thank you for taking the time to provide that information. It's quite interesting! Did you at any point in your career use any of these systems? What I'm especially interested in knowing is whether or not they present much of a 'cognitive burden' on soldiers, especially in situations where all hell has broken loose.

I have used both. The JBC-P is more efficient as it's a more "modern" system. Very effective of keeping track of troops and units in movement across a geographic region.

It is certainly helpful when the cuchifrito has hit the fan. it helps you direct units to respond and helps coordinate with units adjacent to your location. The upgraded location capabilities is very helpful when you have to "call for fire". @Grim Reaper 6 will back me up when I say vey helpful when you are calling for indirect support(artillery) or Close Air Support (CAS) which is usually Apaches or if you get lucky A-10s.

 

Not really a burden to troops. The systems are basic and intuitive. The younger generation of Soldiers are very adept at using the digital systems.

Edited June 27 by Trelane

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, Trelane said:

Thanks man, I'm not necessarily an expert just an old troop in the winter of his career.  But we'll see how this goes. *takes deep breath*.....

@Kittens Are Jerks since around 2002-2003 the Blue Force Tracking (BFT) System is a GPS-based capability that provides commanders of units with location information about friendly and (if available) enemy forces. it provides a common picture for all commanders in a specific area of operations or theatre of battle. BFT systems are comprised of the following components: a computer for location display; a satellite terminal and antenna for transmitting military data; a Global Positioning System receiver for determining the device's own position; command-and-control software for sending and receiving commands; and mapping software, which typically takes the form of a geographic information system (GIS) for plotting the BFT device on a map. The host vehicle's location is shown by the system on the computer's terrain map display, together with the locations of other platforms (enemy in red and friendly in blue) at each location. Text and image communications can also be sent and received using BFT. 

Around 2016, the Army started fielding the 2nd generation called the Joint battle Command-Platform (JBC-P). it essentially equipped Soldiers with a faster satellite network, secure data encryption and advanced logistics. JBC-P has an easy-to-use interface with drag-and-drop icons and touch-to-zoom maps. JBC-P works with the Soldier-managed "Nett Warrior" handheld gadget to provide dismounted soldiers with situational awareness capabilities. The Mounted Family of Computer Systems (MFoCS), standardized tactical computers that are scalable and configurable to the task and vehicle, is a common hardware component that is integrated into JBC-P. With options ranging from a tablet that can be detached to a workstation that can be put in a car and loaded with software, MFoCS reduces size, weight, and power requirements while running JBC-P in addition to other applications. 

Individual or personal tracking devices or personal locator beacons (PLBs) are outside of my wheelhouse. I'm aware that specific Special Forces units have them, but I do not know their capabilities or overall functionality.

Thanks man, I know your very busy and I sincerely appreciate your help here. Like I said my experience with the technology was in its infancy during the original fielding starting back in 2000 at Ft. Lewis.

Thanks again my brother!!!!!

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, Trelane said:

I have used both. The JBC-P is more efficient as it's a more "modern" system. Very effective of keeping track of troops and units in movement across a geographic region.

It is certainly helpful when the cuchifrito has hit the fan. it helps you direct units to respond and helps coordinate with units adjacent to your location. The upgraded location capabilities is very helpful when you have to "call for fire". @Grim Reaper 6 will back me up when I say vey helpful when you are calling for indirect support(artillery) or Close Air Support (CAS) which is usually Apaches or if you get lucky A-10s.

 

Not really a burden to troops. The systems are basic and intuitive. The younger generation of Soldiers are very adept at using the digital systems.

Yea, my friend they always design these systems as user friendly as possible, and like you said above the younger generation of soldiers are adept at using the digital systems in some cases more so than some of the old farts like us! I am surprised they have not integrated the personal identification device by now. Back during the fielding, we tested many different personnel models that would allow individual soldiers to also be visible using the software in the same manner as equipment is. Durability, and size of the sensor were the main issues hopefully at some point they will correct this.

Peace and thanks again!

 

Edited June 27 by Grim Reaper 6

[Trelane]

11 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yea, my friend they always design these systems as user friendly as possible, and like you said above the younger generation of soldiers are adept at using the digital systems in some cases more so than some of the old farts like us! I am surprised they have not integrated the personal identification device by now. Back during the fielding, we tested many different personnel models that would allow individual soldiers to also be visible using the software in the same manner as equipment is. Durability, and size of the sensor were the main issues hopefully at some point they will correct this.

Peace and thanks again!

 

Absolutely.

 But as you know, Joe can break and/or lose stuff very easily. Some of those individual systems are pretty high speed, so that's why for now the cool guys get that stuff. i mean hell, they're just starting to get the JLTVs fielded to regular units. Joe kept messing around with the hydraulics thinking you could make them jump like lowriders.😆

Like my dad once said, "You can leave Joe in a padded room with a hammer and an anvil. Come back in an hour and the anvil will be broken with the hammer missing. The troop will say either it was like that when he first came in ,or he has no idea how it was broken and where the hammer is." 

Peace to you my friend!

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Absolutely.

 But as you know, Joe can break and/or lose stuff very easily. Some of those individual systems are pretty high speed, so that's why for now the cool guys get that stuff. i mean hell, they're just starting to get the JLTVs fielded to regular units. Joe kept messing around with the hydraulics thinking you could make them jump like lowriders.😆

Like my dad once said, "You can leave Joe in a padded room with a hammer and an anvil. Come back in an hour and the anvil will be broken with the hammer missing. The troop will say either it was like that when he first came in ,or he has no idea how it was broken and where the hammer is." 

Peace to you my friend!

Oh yea, I doubt any of that has changed since the very beginning of warfare itself!! I saw a young soldier once with a hammer tapping the Armor on his on his Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I asked him what he was doing, and he said he was looking for weak spots in the Armor. I just told him to carry on, and walked away before I broke down in tears laughing.

Here is a song for your listening pleasure!!

Peace

[CrimsonKing]

13 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Oh yea, I doubt any of that has changed since the very beginning of warfare itself!! I saw a young soldier once with a hammer tapping the Armor on his on his Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I asked him what he was doing, and he said he was looking for weak spots in the Armor. I just told him to carry on, and walked away before I broke down in tears laughing.

Here is a song for your listening pleasure!!

Peace

Now that is funny 🤣 

Think young men have been doing stupid things to vehicles since the chariot lol

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, CrimsonKing said:

Now that is funny 🤣 

Think young men have been doing stupid things to vehicles since the chariot lol

Yea, the guy was listening for different tones made by tapping the hammer on the Armor. I think someone put him up to it, so I just let him continue!!!!!!!!

[Black Red Devil]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:53 AM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday that the “intense phase of the war with Hamas (in Gaza) is about to end,” and that the military’s focus could then shift to Israel’s northern border with Lebanon. “It doesn’t mean that the war is going to end, but the war in its current stage is going to end in Rafah. This is true. We will continue mowing the grass later,” Netanyahu told Channel 14 Television in his first one-on-one interview with local Israeli media since October 7.

Hezbollah, an Iran-backed Islamist movement with one of the most powerful paramilitary forces in the Middle East, has been carrying out deadly attacks from southern Lebanon targeting areas in northern Israel since October 8, the day after the Hamas attacks on Israel.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/intense-phase-of-war-with-hamas-about-to-end-focus-to-shift-to-lebanon-border-netanyahu-says/ar-BB1oKuK3?cvid=14dfbf0b12bd46cee14ad2a3ee8414f4&ei=16

Despite them being a powerful militia group, they are no match IMO to any professional Armed Force from the top 50-60 nations in the world (Just to give you an idea Finland is ranked 50 and they have a reasonable military force!).  Hezbollah has a lot of old Soviet anti air equipment and some 120,000 rockets but the best are their FAJR 5 which only has a 75 km range. DRones could annoy for a while until the area is cleared.  Israel is ranked in the top 20, so in a conventional war Hezbollah is a walk through the park.  Unfortunately for Israel it's not a conventional war and the fight will be on Hezbollah's terms.

Looking at a map from Lebanon showing the areas Hezbollah controls (in the green) you can see Israel could probably devastate the southern area (which borders Israel's north) with their F15's and F16s and their rocket launchers that have a 300km range. I think they would do this before Hezbollah overwhelmed the Iron Dome.

The IDF will suffer a lot of damage and deaths, especially if they invade to clear Hezbollah from the southern area of Lebanon.  If they do, will they go after Hezbollah in the North East?  They would have to go through Lebanese territory that isn't controlled by Hezbollah Shiites.  That may cause a lot of problems with the Arab League. If they don't, Hezbollah will remain active in Lebanon and may re-occupy the southern area again, unless Israel keeps troops permanently there which would most certainly come under constant attacks from Hezbollah militia.

No matter how you look at it a war with Hezbollah is going to leave a lot more doubts than certainties for Israel.  Lebanon isn't Gaza and they are facing a no win situation.  It might sound crazy but IMO the only way Israel can eliminate the danger from Hezbollah's attacks is by regime change in Iran and unless their people rebel, there is only one other way this could occur....in an all out war.

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Despite them being a powerful militia group, they are no match IMO to any professional Armed Force from the top 50-60 nations in the world (Just to give you an idea Finland is ranked 50 and they have a reasonable military force!).  Hezbollah has a lot of old Soviet anti air equipment and some 120,000 rockets but the best are their FAJR 5 which only has a 75 km range. DRones could annoy for a while until the area is cleared.  Israel is ranked in the top 20, so in a conventional war Hezbollah is a walk through the park.  Unfortunately for Israel it's not a conventional war and the fight will be on Hezbollah's terms.

Looking at a map from Lebanon showing the areas Hezbollah controls (in the green) you can see Israel could probably devastate the southern area (which borders Israel's north) with their F15's and F16s and their rocket launchers that have a 300km range. I think they would do this before Hezbollah overwhelmed the Iron Dome.

The IDF will suffer a lot of damage and deaths, especially if they invade to clear Hezbollah from the southern area of Lebanon.  If they do, will they go after Hezbollah in the North East?  They would have to go through Lebanese territory that isn't controlled by Hezbollah Shiites.  That may cause a lot of problems with the Arab League. If they don't, Hezbollah will remain active in Lebanon and may re-occupy the southern area again, unless Israel keeps troops permanently there which would most certainly come under constant attacks from Hezbollah militia.

No matter how you look at it a war with Hezbollah is going to leave a lot more doubts than certainties for Israel.  Lebanon isn't Gaza and they are facing a no win situation.  It might sound crazy but IMO the only way Israel can eliminate the danger from Hezbollah's attacks is by regime change in Iran and unless their people rebel, there is only one other way this could occur....in an all out war.

Personally, I believe that for Israel to effectively change the balance of power they should cut the beasts head off and directly attack Iran. Iran is the largest sponsor of terrorism in the world today, and they will continue to be until confronted directly. Fighting Hezbollah is a waste of time, because ultimately as long as Lebanon allows them to occupy their territory and Iran supplies them with weapons Israel never completely destroy Hezbollah.

So, in my opinion if there is fight Israel must win, it is the destruction and regime change of Iran!

[Trelane]

16 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Oh yea, I doubt any of that has changed since the very beginning of warfare itself!! I saw a young soldier once with a hammer tapping the Armor on his on his Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I asked him what he was doing, and he said he was looking for weak spots in the Armor. I just told him to carry on, and walked away before I broke down in tears laughing.

Here is a song for your listening pleasure!!

Peace

One of my favorites from the Allmans. Things certainly haven't been the same since Gregory passed.

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, Trelane said:

One of my favorites from the Allmans. Things certainly haven't been the same since Gregory passed.

Yea I certainly agree, and things will never be the same. That is also one of my favorite songs where Greg sings, here is another one you might like, I certainly do!!!!

 

[+and-then]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:40 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Yea, the guy was listening for different tones made by tapping the hammer on the Armor. I think someone put him up to it, so I just let him continue!!!!!!!!

That sounds like something an older soldier might do to a newbie.  My brother-in-law told of a senior sailor sending him to the paint locker for a can of "striped paint".  He didn't know that my BiL had been a painter for many years before joining up 

Edited June 28 by and-then

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, and-then said:

That sounds like something an older soldier might do to a newbie.  My brother-in-law told of a senior sailor sending him to the paint locker for a can of "striped paint".  He didn't know that my BiL had been a painter for many years before joining up 

Yea, I think the guy was given mission in the same manner you describe above. Now over the years I have seen similar things happen to newbies, however that was the funniest thing I every saw during my military career!

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

So, in my opinion if there is fight Israel must win, it is the destruction and regime change of Iran!

The thing is, DC has become quite obvious in their quiet support for the regime in Tehran.  In makes no sense at all and it is causing all of these bloody, dangerous problems throughout the region.  NOTHING that has happened against Israel in the last few years would have happened if Iran hadn't become flush with cash from Biden's decisions, early in his administration.  It is crazy...

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Israel is ranked in the top 20, so in a conventional war Hezbollah is a walk through the park.  Unfortunately for Israel it's not a conventional war and the fight will be on Hezbollah's terms.

This will be the most destructive war Israel has ever fought and it will suffer great losses.  There is no way to shut down enough of the launcher sites quickly enough to stop the massed fire that will come from Lebanon.  Hopefully, the IAF has enough of them pre-sighted to stop the overload within a few days.  Israel is going to suffer greatly but Lebanon is going to be effectively ended as a nation.  I feel badly for the poor Lebanese who do not support Iran's proxies and who cannot get out of harm's way.   The world will continue to blame Israel for every death and for every issue that arises and this will be the fault of the global media.  I pray that they day will come when THEY are held accountable for that bloodshed.

Edited June 28 by and-then

[Grim Reaper 6]

18 minutes ago, and-then said:

The thing is, DC has become quite obvious in their quiet support for the regime in Tehran.  In makes no sense at all and it is causing all of these bloody, dangerous problems throughout the region.  NOTHING that has happened against Israel in the last few years would have happened if Iran hadn't become flush with cash from Biden's decisions, early in his administration.  It is crazy...

To fair in my opinion Iran has been placated for at least 30 years. In my opinion at the conclusion of the Gulf War in 1990 we should have did  a change of mission and invaded Iran and forced a Regime change. But, like I previously said in this thread for Israel to ever remove the terrorist from their borders they must cut the head off the beast and force a regime change in Iran 🇮🇷. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

Interesting opinion article:

Iran is playing a proxy war with Hezbollah, Lebanese civilians will pay the price

Ever since October 7, Hezbollah, egged on by Iran, has been escalating its cross-border clashes with Israel, while its leader Hassan Nasrallah has been stepping up his blood-curdling rhetoric, predicting Armageddon if Israel were to launch an all-out war.

Yet the truth is that Iran-Hezbollah would like nothing better. They have sound strategic reasons for not initiating formal armed conflict. So their tactic has been to ramp up the provocation, daring Israel to strike back and trigger war.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-808423

[+and-then]

On 7/1/2024 at 12:18 AM, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Yet the truth is that Iran-Hezbollah would like nothing better. They have sound strategic reasons for not initiating formal armed conflict. So their tactic has been to ramp up the provocation, daring Israel to strike back and trigger war.

If this assessment is accurate - and I believe it is - then the only plausible reason Iran would risk engaging against Israel at this time and risking the loss of their best counter to Israeli power is that they believe DC might back away and let Israel go it alone.  I think it has been reported that Biden told Bibi this a few weeks back.  IMO, when/if Israel decides to take Hizballah on and remove them from the border, those in DC who are refusing to stand with Israel will be overruled by those still loyal to our best and most important ally in the M.E.  IOW, I think Biden's words are a bluff.  The biggest reason for this is the reality that if Iran launches all of their proxies against Israel simultaneously and Israel is facing an true existential fight, they WILL use nukes.  DC cannot take that risk and the amateurs in the current administration will fold like a house of cards, when the time comes.