Should the UK Adopt a Proportional Representation System?

[Duke Wellington]

6 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

You continue to hijack this thread to indulge your obvious prejudices. The Dublin rioters were not genuine activists against immigration, but mainly opportunists intent on looting and criminal damage. They were interested in attacking the police and other social services and indulged themselves in burning police cars and other publicly owned vehicles. Their primary purpose was robbery and they looted many Dublin shops. Most were identified and their activities tracked using CCTV and they have been rightly charged and sentenced.

In a civilised democracy rioting is not the way to protest against immigration. Most Irish people have issues with the level of immigration to the Republic, not with immigrants per se. Fortunately, most immigrants contribute positively to Irish society and are welcomed here, although some engage in criminal activity which has caused many to question the vetting procedure and Ireland's immigration system. Scumbags rioting contributes nothing to the resolution of the problem. The sensible people of Ireland will sort it all out in good time and the scumbags get what they deserve.   

Most people have issues with the level of immigration.

But Ireland has a democracy. Shame it doesn`t work lol.

[MrAnderson]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:55 PM, Duke Wellington said:

Most people have issues with the level of immigration.

But Ireland has a democracy. Shame it doesn`t work lol.

Why is their democracy doesn't work?

[MrAnderson]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:40 PM, Duke Wellington said:

The amount of people voting labour was in the low 30s percentage.

In fact, that`s less than Commie Corbyn got, a lot less. Our system is weird, you could technically get 49.9% of the vote and not win a single seat. Although unlikely, it is possible. We have over 600 seats, the one with the most votes for each gets it, no one else gets a look in.

Starmer is less popular than Corbyn, Labour will go delusional and claim they have a massive mandate from the British people for re-joining the EU, heavy socialism, and large numbers of immigrants. It`ll be a one term government, assuming the Tories, Reform, or both together, sort themselves out.

In fact there are many who would like to see a more proportional representation and this is reflected in the Guardian article a few days ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/08/disproportionate-uk-election-results-boost-calls-to-ditch-first-past-the-post

Quote

 

The push for electoral reform in the UK has received a shot in the arm after the “most disproportionate election in history”, according to campaigners and academics.  Longstanding reform campaigners have become uneasy bedfellows with Reform UK’s Nigel Farage in recent days after Labour secured a 174-seat majority with just 34% of the popular vote.  “This election has thrown the spotlight on to the electoral system as the result was the most disproportional on record,” said Darren Hughes, the chief executive of the Electoral Reform Society. “We have already had a growing chorus of calls for PR [proportional representation] in the aftermath.”

If the UK used the additional member system of PR, used for the Scottish and Welsh parliaments, Reform would have won 94 seats across the country on Thursday and the Greens 42, according to the Electoral Reform Society.

In line with the simple estimations I made the Electoral Reform Society said that through a PR system Reform would have won 94 seats and the Greens 42.

The fptp system cannot be representative and should be change in the future imo

Edited July 9 by MrAnderson

[Ozymandias]

On 7/6/2024 at 7:55 PM, Duke Wellington said:

But Ireland has a democracy. Shame it doesn`t work lol.

6 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Why is their democracy doesn't work?

Of course, it works!  Duke of Wellington (aka Cookie Monster) is simply wrong about this. I just did not bother responding to his comment because frankly I find it a waste of time dealing with opinionated people of limited knowledge and less understanding, and he may be just trolling anyway. He is a cut-and-paste expert on many topics (economics, politics, quantum physics, relativity, etc) but when he decides to speak his own mind his pronouncements inevitably betray a certain ignorance and lack of comprehension. Having said that, however, his wayward opinions can be entertaining in a childish way. 

To judge from previous posts of his about Ireland, he knows virtual nothing of Irish democracy or the Irish, only what he regurgitates from the right wing press and other dubious sources and that is mostly prejudicial. Sorry to have to say this, but it is true. 

 

[MrAnderson]

19 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Of course, it works!  Duke of Wellington (aka Cookie Monster) is simply wrong about this. I just did not bother responding to his comment because frankly I find it a waste of time dealing with opinionated people of limited knowledge and less understanding, and he may be just trolling anyway. He is a cut-and-paste expert on many topics (economics, politics, quantum physics, relativity, etc) but when he decides to speak his own mind his pronouncements inevitably betray a certain ignorance and lack of comprehension. Having said that, however, his wayward opinions can be entertaining in a childish way. 

To judge from previous posts of his about Ireland, he knows virtual nothing of Irish democracy or the Irish, only what he regurgitates from the right wing press and other dubious sources and that is mostly prejudicial. Sorry to have to say this, but it is true. 

 

What do think on a more proportional representation system in the UK.

There is no explanation on why the Irish democracy doesn't work.

[Ozymandias]

53 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

What do think on a more proportional representation system in the UK.

I think the UK should introduce proportional representation (PR) if it seriously wants to sort out its problems. The UK is terribly divided. British governments must bring as much of their population along with them as they can and FPTP works against this, causing too many to give up on politics and stop voting. Not everyone will get on board, of course, but PR is the best way to ensure buy-in by a greater majority of the electorate because people's first, second, third, etc, voting preferences are taken into account in the overall tally and they will be represented on some level in government. Coalition governments are harder to put together, but rival parties in a coalition can agree on a compromise programme for government and the work they do in government is more likely to endure and not be reversed by later governments. The Republic of Ireland has had coalition governments since 1989 and although there were tensions within them from time to time they worked pretty well for us. The evidence is that PR and coalition government are good for a country because of their cooperative nature. Governments that alternate between polar political opposites, as in the UK between Conservative and Labour, tend to undo the work of the previous administration and alienate chunks of the electorate over time.   

53 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

There is no explanation on why the Irish democracy doesn't work.

That is because Irish democracy does work. The Republic of Ireland operates a Proportional Representation (PR) system and has had nothing but successful coalition governments since 1989. It is not a problem. The electorate is better represented by the elected members of parliament and the parties making up the coalition have always managed to agree and implement a workable programme for government. The Republic of Ireland has had a stable and successful democracy since we gained our independence over a century ago. We have a Constitution that has served the Irish people well, a constitution that we gifted to ourselves as per that constitution's Preamble:

'We, the people of Éire, ... seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations, Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution...'  

I fail to see how anyone can say our democracy does not work. That is not to say that the Republic does not have problems, but the nature of its democracy and the manner in which it functions is not one of them.

Edited July 9 by Ozymandias

[Slugnutty]

Funny. I’m from a constituency that has been Tory forever (still is 🤦‍♂️) I have never voted Tory and have always considered what government would be best for the country and the people, not for my personal benefit. (And yes, people includes all people, not just ones with British passports)
 

have I been doing it wrong for all these years?