Australia accused of discriminating against disabled migrants

[pellinore]

When Luca was born in a Perth hospital two years ago, it flipped his parents’ world in ways they never expected.

With the joy came a shocking diagnosis: Luca had cystic fibrosis. Then Australia - Laura Currie and her husband Dante’s home for eight years - said they couldn't stay permanently. Luca, his parents were told, could be a financial burden on the country.

“I think I cried for like a week - I just feel really, really sorry for Luca,” Ms Currie says. “He's just a defenceless two-and-a-half-year-old and doesn't deserve to be discriminated against in that way.”

With a third of its population born abroad, Australia has long seen itself as a “migration nation” - a multicultural home for immigrants that promises them a fair go and a fresh start. The idea is baked into its identity. But the reality is often different, especially for those who have a disability or a serious medical condition.

Australia accused of discriminating against disabled migrants - BBC News

Edited July 9 by pellinore

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 minutes ago, pellinore said:

When Luca was born in a Perth hospital two years ago, it flipped his parents’ world in ways they never expected.

With the joy came a shocking diagnosis: Luca had cystic fibrosis. Then Australia - Laura Currie and her husband Dante’s home for eight years - said they couldn't stay permanently. Luca, his parents were told, could be a financial burden on the country.

“I think I cried for like a week - I just feel really, really sorry for Luca,” Ms Currie says. “He's just a defenceless two-and-a-half-year-old and doesn't deserve to be discriminated against in that way.”

With a third of its population born abroad, Australia has long seen itself as a “migration nation” - a multicultural home for immigrants that promises them a fair go and a fresh start. The idea is baked into its identity. But the reality is often different, especially for those who have a disability or a serious medical condition.

Australia accused of discriminating against disabled migrants - BBC News

That really sucks if it’s accurate, I literally hate any discriminatory treatment of the disabled it makes sick!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

23 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

That really sucks if it’s accurate, I literally hate any discriminatory treatment of the disabled it makes sick!

It sounds about right for the Department of Immigration. 
They’re on par with the Department of Education for “BUT THE PAPERWORK SAYS ….” level petty bureaucracy. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It sounds about right for the Department of Immigration. 
They’re on par with the Department of Education for “BUT THE PAPERWORK SAYS ….” level petty bureaucracy. 

Thanks I defer to your opinion on this topic, because I know little of how the Australian government works!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

12 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Thanks I defer to your opinion on this topic, because I know little of how the Australian government works!

“Works” is a contentious term, it implies that it functions as expected and in a manner that follows reasonable processes. 
It … functions. It exists. 

[pellinore]

46 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

“Works” is a contentious term, it implies that it functions as expected and in a manner that follows reasonable processes. 
It … functions. It exists. 

I'll be interested in the view of @psyche101 as another Australian. I can understand why a country doesn't want to pay the cost to care for people with chronic illnesses. (Germany spelled this out in the 1930s- 'useless bread-gobblers', they called them). It is a difficult moral choice.

Edited July 9 by pellinore

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, pellinore said:

I'll be interested in the view of @psyche101 as another Australian. I can understand why a country doesn't want to pay the cost to care for people with chronic illnesses. (Germany spelled this out in the 1930s- 'useless bread-gobblers', they called them). It is a difficult moral choice.

Thanks Pellinore. Appreciate the invite.

I can understand it too. We aren't a global health service. There has to be a line somewhere. Australia isn't alone in rejecting disabled immigrant's. New Zealand does the same, as do Finland and Sweden. 

These people are more the exception to the rule. About two or three times a year I see cases like this on local reports. Usually the people getting the short end of the stick take it up with the minister of immigration and things settle. It's an arduous process and does take years, so we do see some frustration. 

Good news is things got a little better earlier this year. Temporary protection visas and safe haven visas are being abolished in favour of resolution of status visa which should prove to be a more personal process looking better at individual cases. 

As that's what these incidents actually are. Exceptions to a general rule.

One similar case that immediately comes to mind is an Irish family from Victoria who have a three year old son (when I heard about it) who has cystic fibrosis. Same thing. Facing deportation. Years of uncertainty. 

Usually getting on a currant affairs show gets slightly quicker results. Pressure from the spotlight and all that. The Irish family went that route and a few months later were granted permanent visas. 

Overjoyed': Irish family's months-long immigration battle ends with good news

The family had initially been given until June 18 to leave Australia due to Darragh’s condition and the cost of his Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme subsidised, life-saving medication.

But they were permitted to stay while a review on their case took place – establishing a petition in the mean time and sharing their predicament publicly.

In a last-ditch effort, the family appealed to Immigration Minister David Coleman, the only person in a position to grant them permanent residency.

On Friday, they received the news they had so desperately hoping for, as going back to Ireland could mean a wait of up to 12 months for Darragh’s medication.

Mrs Hyde expressed her gratitude to the community for its outpouring of support.

 

I'll honestly be surprised if the same doesn't happen for Luca and his family. It's a difficult path, but considering that people take advantage of anything we unfortunately need difficult pathways in critical systems. Now that they have contacted the media, the media should fast track their issues and they will be resolved. 

[psyche101]

7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

“Works” is a contentious term, it implies that it functions as expected and in a manner that follows reasonable processes. 
It … functions. It exists. 

I dunno.

Next to America they look like a well oiled machine functioning above standard. 

 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

I dunno.

Next to America they look like a well oiled machine functioning above standard. 

 

 

Using America as a touchstone is like saying Pauline Hansen is a Rhodes Scholar, because my 2 year old nephew doesn’t speak in whole sentences. 

[pellinore]

Thanks for the lengthy reply @psyche101. It's an ethical and moral dilemma. I know a family which has a congenital genetic disorder (like MND). From middle age they need progressively more care (electric wheelchair, special housing, care visits, eventually a few months in ICU till they pop their clogs). All paid for by the taxpayer, and it is colossally expensive. 

They are not thoughtful people and just accept this as a right. If I was one of them, I would consider not breeding anymore, but that is not a consideration for them. Perhaps it is a case for sterilization, whether they agree to it or not.

Then there are the self-inflicted disorders- not just smoking and drinking but spinal injuries from extreme sports. I knew a young woman who is tetraplegic for life after falling from a horse. Round the clock care for several decades, unless pneumonia steps in.

I suppose one way of drawing a line is: did they contribute (or would they have contributed) to expensive care? That would rule out some recent immigrants, but it seems cruel to say that to them.

Although I consider myself as centre-Left, I get drawn to some Right-wing ideas. I'm not sure eugenics is all bad. Lol.

 

[psyche101]

15 hours ago, pellinore said:

Thanks for the lengthy reply @psyche101. It's an ethical and moral dilemma. I know a family which has a congenital genetic disorder (like MND). From middle age they need progressively more care (electric wheelchair, special housing, care visits, eventually a few months in ICU till they pop their clogs). All paid for by the taxpayer, and it is colossally expensive. 

They are not thoughtful people and just accept this as a right. If I was one of them, I would consider not breeding anymore, but that is not a consideration for them. Perhaps it is a case for sterilization, whether they agree to it or not.

Then there are the self-inflicted disorders- not just smoking and drinking but spinal injuries from extreme sports. I knew a young woman who is tetraplegic for life after falling from a horse. Round the clock care for several decades, unless pneumonia steps in.

I suppose one way of drawing a line is: did they contribute (or would they have contributed) to expensive care? That would rule out some recent immigrants, but it seems cruel to say that to them.

Well as you point out it is very expensive and Australia has a very good disability program, the NDIS. Unfortunately some companies have abused the system and it's always under heavy review but for disabled Australians it's mostly an excellent resource. I know people who use it and people working in it. 

I suppose that because we have such guidelines, it allows funds to mostly be directed where needed most for our countrymen. A lot of people pay taxes before becoming disabled, I see that like retirement. It's something of an insurance policy. And almost all have family that take on the larger share of care, so I'm good with paying taxes to keep NDIS available. Could happen to anyone anytime. 

15 hours ago, pellinore said:

Although I consider myself as centre-Left, I get drawn to some Right-wing ideas. I'm not sure eugenics is all bad. Lol.

I agree, it's not. Hitler's idea of wiping out races is bad, but genetically engineered people to be more resistant to disease or perform better IMHO would not be a bad thing. Hitler's programs depended on breeding programs whereas today's technology would be more a womb application (perhaps earlier) to improve the quality of human being grown. Disease and disability resistant. Higher intelligence. Etc. Honestly I can't see that as bad. Or engineering plant food to last longer, be bigger and maintain nutrition. I feel there's great potential for modern eugenics. I don't think it's right wing. Maybe Hitler's ideas of a "pure race" through selective breeding hint at the level of control the right wing seeks, but science doesn't play politics.

[Black Red Devil]

18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Usually getting on a currant affairs show gets slightly quicker results. Pressure from the spotlight and all that.

FWIW, you've got no idea how much this iritates me about Australia.  If you want something done, go to the media which begs the question, how much power has the media been given?

[psyche101]

8 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

FWIW, you've got no idea how much this iritates me about Australia.  If you want something done, go to the media which begs the question, how much power has the media been given?

I always felt it was more just a name and shame thing. 

Squeaky wheel gets oil and all that. 

Tracy Grimshaw has always been a thorn in the side of councils and government. I can't say I'm opposed to her giving them a kick in the complacency from time to time.

Last night I saw this nonsense, and I hope a current affair gets things with this dumbass council sorted soon.

An Aussie man who "waited six months" to have his local council fill a huge hole left by an uprooted tree outside his home has been slapped with a $11,500 fine for eventually doing it himself.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/resident-slapped-11k-in-council-fines-for-filling-derelict-hole-outside-home-224550918.html#:~:text=An Aussie man who "waited,for eventually doing it himself.

 

I though the council looked pretty bad after that story last night. I'm hoping that Adam will get some better results here. He doesn't intend to pay the fine and I think he did the right thing to be honest. It was a hazard. 

Edited July 11 by psyche101

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I always felt it was more just a name and shame thing. 

Squeaky wheel gets oil and all that. 

Tracy Grimshaw has always been a thorn in the side of councils and government. I can't say I'm opposed to her giving them a kick in the complacency from time to time.

Last night I saw this nonsense, and I hope a current affair gets things with this dumbass council sorted soon.

An Aussie man who "waited six months" to have his local council fill a huge hole left by an uprooted tree outside his home has been slapped with a $11,500 fine for eventually doing it himself.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/resident-slapped-11k-in-council-fines-for-filling-derelict-hole-outside-home-224550918.html#:~:text=An Aussie man who "waited,for eventually doing it himself.

 

I thought the council looked pretty bad after that story last night. I'm hoping that Adam will get some better results here. He doesn't intend to pay the fine and I think he did the right thing to be honest. It was a hazard. 

I learned first hand about the squeaky wheel is an affective way to handle government bureaucracy. My dear Sarah, god bless her became disabled at 3 and my wife and I took care of her at home for 28 years until she passed. On many occasions I had too cut through the bureaucracy to get the thing she needed, I relentless and I never lost a fight. So, I understand your point very well and understand the fight that those with disabilities go through on a daily basis.

Peace Bro, great post.

[Black Red Devil]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:11 AM, pellinore said:

When Luca was born in a Perth hospital two years ago, it flipped his parents’ world in ways they never expected.

With the joy came a shocking diagnosis: Luca had cystic fibrosis. Then Australia - Laura Currie and her husband Dante’s home for eight years - said they couldn't stay permanently. Luca, his parents were told, could be a financial burden on the country.

“I think I cried for like a week - I just feel really, really sorry for Luca,” Ms Currie says. “He's just a defenceless two-and-a-half-year-old and doesn't deserve to be discriminated against in that way.”

With a third of its population born abroad, Australia has long seen itself as a “migration nation” - a multicultural home for immigrants that promises them a fair go and a fresh start. The idea is baked into its identity. But the reality is often different, especially for those who have a disability or a serious medical condition.

Australia accused of discriminating against disabled migrants - BBC News

Correct, about a third of the nation was born somewhere else.  Australia, proportionally, takes in a large percentage of immigrants compared to other countries in the world.  We have the space but they mostly end up in 3 or 4 main cities, which ends up overpopulating them and causing all sorts of housing, infrastructure and social issues.  The government has become very bureaucratic because people expect the best and sometimes/most times to achieve the best results policies have to change.

So, immigration ok, but no "garbage" from other countries (to put it crudely).  Like most bureaucracies it's all black and white and that's why there is serious scrutiny on all applications that end up with a lengthy blowout in processing times for visas. I can only assume bureacracy is also the reason why a situation like this may have occured. 

They'll probably have to create a new visa to distinguish between a humanitarian case related to a disabled child and someone healthy draining the wealthfare system by perpetuating an illness once they're been given residence.

[psyche101]

25 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I learned first hand about the squeaky wheel is an affective way to handle government bureaucracy. My dear Sarah, god bless her became disabled at 3 and my wife and I took care of her at home for 28 years until she passed. On many occasions I had too cut through the bureaucracy to get the thing she needed, I relentless and I never lost a fight. So, I understand your point very well and understand the fight that those with disabilities go through on a daily basis.

Peace Bro, great post.

Cheers mate

Sounds like a rough time. I do feel for people who end up disabled. One person in my industry that I know of rather than know, took a dive from a houseboat at a Xmas party and hit a log breaking his neck and becoming paraplegic in the process. His boss still has him as an employee fifteen years later. Upgraded the workplace to accommodate him, ramps and desks and such. He now has a very loyal employee who can still fulfil his duties. Nice to see things like that. 

[psyche101]

11 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Correct, about a third of the nation was born somewhere else.  Australia, proportionally, takes in a large percentage of immigrants compared to other countries in the world.  We have the space but they mostly end up in 3 or 4 main cities, which ends up overpopulating them and causing all sorts of housing, infrastructure and social issues.  The government has become very bureaucratic because people expect the best and sometimes/most times to achieve the best results policies have to change.

So, immigration ok, but no "garbage" from other countries (to put it crudely).  Like most bureaucracies it's all black and white and that's why there is serious scrutiny on all applications that end up with a lengthy blowout in processing times for visas. I can only assume bureacracy is also the reason why a situation like this may have occured. 

They'll probably have to create a new visa to distinguish between a humanitarian case related to a disabled child and someone healthy draining the wealthfare system by perpetuating an illness once they're been given residence.

Hopefully the new visa systems will remove some confusion and smooth the process.

[Black Red Devil]

31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I always felt it was more just a name and shame thing. 

Squeaky wheel gets oil and all that. 

Tracy Grimshaw has always been a thorn in the side of councils and government. I can't say I'm opposed to her giving them a kick in the complacency from time to time.

Last night I saw this nonsense, and I hope a current affair gets things with this dumbass council sorted soon.

An Aussie man who "waited six months" to have his local council fill a huge hole left by an uprooted tree outside his home has been slapped with a $11,500 fine for eventually doing it himself.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/resident-slapped-11k-in-council-fines-for-filling-derelict-hole-outside-home-224550918.html#:~:text=An Aussie man who "waited,for eventually doing it himself.

 

I though the council looked pretty bad after that story last night. I'm hoping that Adam will get some better results here. He doesn't intend to pay the fine and I think he did the right thing to be honest. It was a hazard. 

Well it is a name and shame thing although by law they can't theoretically name and shame but it's more the fact it takes sometimes a lot of prodding for authorities to take action. Like I mentioned in my previous post we're almost cornering ourselves because of bureaucracy which we blame on governments but it's really what we expect and want as citizens. It's probably 50 of this and half a dozen of that, the more we expect the more rules and regulations we get, the more bureaucratic we become which leads to a percentage of mistakes due to unkown scenarios which in a black and white bureacratic world you could define as the "grey area".

[Grim Reaper 6]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Cheers mate

Sounds like a rough time. I do feel for people who end up disabled. One person in my industry that I know of rather than know, took a dive from a houseboat at a Xmas party and hit a log breaking his neck and becoming paraplegic in the process. His boss still has him as an employee fifteen years later. Upgraded the workplace to accommodate him, ramps and desks and such. He now has a very loyal employee who can still fulfil his duties. Nice to see things like that. 

Wow, that’s wonderful that a business owner would take care of an employee like that. Man that’s great it proves that there are still good people in this screwed world!!

Thank for sharing my friend that story made my day!

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Well it is a name and shame thing although by law they can't theoretically name and shame but it's more the fact it takes sometimes a lot of prodding for authorities to take action.

It is a shame, but there are 26 million of us. I understand that some things will slip through the cracks. 

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Like I mentioned in my previous post we're almost cornering ourselves because of bureaucracy which we blame on governments but it's really what we expect and want as citizens. It's probably 50 of this and half a dozen of that, the more we expect the more rules and regulations we get, the more bureaucratic we become which leads to a percentage of mistakes due to unkown scenarios which in a black and white bureacratic world you could define as the "grey area".

Exactly, these are laws we generally agree with unless we don't. There's often an exception to the rule and that's what these cases tend to be. Media works for us here and really helps bring the exceptions to limelight for better resolution. It often sounds bad but more often than not there's a happy ending. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Wow, that’s wonderful that a business owner would take care of an employee like that. Man that’s great it proves that there are still good people in this screwed world!!

Thank for sharing my friend that story made my day!

It's actually pretty good here, Australia had a strong cultural connection to "mate ship". Lots of companies get on board these days and look after each other in ways that I feel go beyond responsibility 

This is another good initiative that many companies including the one I work for support.

https://mates.org.au/

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's actually pretty good here, Australia had a strong cultural connection to "mate ship". Lots of companies get on board these days and look after each other in ways that I feel go beyond responsibility 

This is another good initiative that many companies including the one I work for support.

https://mates.org.au/

That is certainly a wonderful thing my friend!

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

That is certainly a wonderful thing my friend!

It's a great country to live in.